BAHA'I thread III - feel free to ask of Baha'i any questions

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What is most important pertaining to religious belief of any kind is that a person come of their own free will, not to blindly imitate others, whether inherited from family traditions, or peer pressure.
Actually, what is most important pertaining to religious belief is that we believe Truth, not a lie.

Even if one comes to a belief “of their own free will”, if it is a lie, it is destructive to one’s spirituality and growth, is it not?
 
what is the bahai teaching on justice? do the bahai teach that evil is punished? do the bahai teach that individuals are responsible for the evil they do?

in an earlier post by a bahai, a comment was written that the bahai teach that evil is caused by a lack of spiritual development. are people held accountable for no developing enough spiritually to stop do evil acts?
 
All people deserve reverence. No one, esp. a leader of a peaceful religious group, ought to have his name disrespected with derogatory associatons/wordplays.
Have to agree to disagree on this one. The fruit of the Baha’i leader’s works is obvious to see, and they’re rotten. I will be no more reverent to him than I would be reverent to Joseph Smith or Jack Chick.
 
That seems a strange stance to take? Is this what Christ taught us? Is this how we would spread Christs pure word of Love?

I have found a couple of passages worth reflection

1 Peter 2:17-18 KJV 18 - Honour all [men]. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. 18 Servants, [be] subject to [your] masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

1 Peter 3:2 ESV - When they see your respectful and pure conduct.

1 John 4:16-18 ESV - So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.

This is what Baha’u’llah said about Christ - Link - reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-36.html

Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.
We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified. Leprosy may be interpreted as any veil that interveneth between man and the recognition of the Lord, his God. Whoso alloweth himself to be shut out from Him is indeed a leper, who shall not be remembered in the Kingdom of God, the Mighty, the All-Praised. We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him. Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh XXXVI

Does this not reflect this passage?

John 15 - King James Version (KJV) :26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Regards Tony
Reverence is reserved for the holy, and your religious leader is anything but.
 
Have to agree to disagree on this one. The fruit of the Baha’i leader’s works is obvious to see, and they’re rotten. I will be no more reverent to him than I would be reverent to Joseph Smith or Jack Chick.
Then, sadly, you will not be here on the CAFs long if you continue in this vein.

For disrespect to anyone is not tolerated. You may not call any individual insulting names, and “ding dong” belongs in that category.
Wow. How rude. You’re certainly not making Bahaulla-Rama-Ding-Dong look any better.
I suggest that you temper your remarks with: would I want someone to call my dad this name? If not, then hold your tongue.

Incidentally, there is an individual, the Reverend Fred Phelps, whose message I have described as vile and offensive. I would never, however, stoop to making fun of his name as a means of deriding his hateful message.
 
Respect is given to all however. That is the Catholic way.
THANKYOU PR 🙂
(Your sense of justice and courtesy towards others is exemplary here)

It’s also the way of the Father in whichever form He incarnates Himself 🙂
 
i asked the bahai the first four following questions earlier. although i did not get a responses, i have added another question at the end.

what is the bahai teaching on justice? do the bahai teach that evil is punished? do the bahai teach that individuals are responsible for the evil they do?

in an earlier post by a bahai, a comment was written that the bahai teach that evil is caused by a lack of spiritual development. are people held accountable for not developing enough spiritually to stop doing evil acts?

why would Perfect Being become incarnate more than once? why could not Pefect Being provide humans all of the information they need in a single incarnation?

the pleasure of a reply from a bahai is sought.
 
The same thing happened after the martyrdom of the Bab. His body riddled from a firing squad of no less than 750 soldiers was, along with His companion who had been tied to Him and suspended high upon a wall as a target, was cast into a mote outside the city of Tabriz. The bodies were guarded by soldiers who sole duty was to see that they were not removed. Nevertheless, on the 2nd or 3rd night some of His followers were able to sneak in and remove the bodies under the cover of darkness. It is possible that the soldiers were either distracted or drunk, but as the latter is forbidden to Muslims, unlikely. If it be God’s will, He can accomplish such a thing.

The bodies of the Bab and Anis were taken to the shop of one of the local believers and placed in a box so as to remain unseen. They were later moved to a secure place. My friend, Farzhad, was from Isfahan, where for some years in his grandfather’s home a casket containing the sacred remains of the Bab and His companion were sealed within a wall constructed to hide them.

In 1899 the remains of the Bab were brought to Haifa, hidden in the room of Baha’u’llah’s daughter, Bahiyyeh Khanum, beneath her bed, where no one would notice. Finally, in 1909 they were interred on the slopes of Mt Carmel, where Baha’u’llah had directed His son, Abdul Baha, to bury them.

Please, for a moment, view the Shrine of the Bab as it is now. I offer you this link:

news.bahai.org/documentlibrary/643/ShrineOfTheBab.pdf

Thank you for viewing
Dale
So, daler and the other Baha’is here: to what purpose do you believe the disciples stole Jesus’ body and then proclaimed the lie that Jesus actually rose from the dead?

And if you believe that these disciples who stole the body were deceiving the community, why do you believe Christianity to be a worthy and respectable religion? :confused:
 
. Baha’is are really not concerned with their personal salvation. That has already been assured. What we are concerned with is the condition of humanity, which has turned away from God by not accepting His Manifestation and the guidance of God.
And how is your salvation assured? This sounds very much like Christian fundamentalism and the doctrine of “Once Saved Always Saved”.

But my real question is what does salvation mean to a Baha’i? What happens to a “saved” Baha’i after death?
 
Respect is given to all however. That is the Catholic way.
I can respect a person without respecting the falsehoods that they choose to represent. If a person chooses to live as the literal incarnation of a theological and religious falsehood, like the leader of the Baha’i, I’m not going to tread on eggshells around them.
 
I suggest that you temper your remarks with: would I want someone to call my dad this name? If not, then hold your tongue.
Noted. Dad would be fine with it, so I stand by my statement. It was meant in lightheartedness as opposed to aggression, at any rate. 🤷
 
i asked the bahai the first four following questions earlier. although i did not get a responses, i have added another question at the end.

what is the bahai teaching on justice? do the bahai teach that evil is punished? do the bahai teach that individuals are responsible for the evil they do?

in an earlier post by a bahai, a comment was written that the bahai teach that evil is caused by a lack of spiritual development. are people held accountable for not developing enough spiritually to stop doing evil acts?

why would Perfect Being become incarnate more than once? why could not Pefect Being provide humans all of the information they need in a single incarnation?

the pleasure of a reply from a bahai is sought.
. Eddie,
. The best answer to the first question will come in a couple of quotes, ok? Then I will speak to your other questions in a separate post. Thank you for your patience and good will.

O SON OF SPIRIT!

The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes.

. “The Great Being saith: The structure of world stability and order hath been reared upon, and will continue to be sustained by, the twin pillars of reward and punishment…. In another passage He hath written: Take heed, O concourse of the rulers of the world! There is no force on earth that can equal in its conquering power the force of justice and wisdom….
. Blessed is the king who marcheth with the ensign of wisdom unfurled before him, and the battalions of justice massed in his rear. He verily is the ornament that adorneth the brow of peace and the countenance of security. There can be no doubt whatever that if the day star of justice, which the clouds of tyranny have obscured, were to shed its light upon men, the face of the earth would be completely transformed.”

Baha’u’llah
 
I can respect a person without respecting the falsehoods that they choose to represent. If a person chooses to live as the literal incarnation of a theological and religious falsehood, like the leader of the Baha’i, I’m not going to tread on eggshells around them.
Noted. Dad would be fine with it, so I stand by my statement. It was meant in lightheartedness as opposed to aggression, at any rate. 🤷
And just so you know, I’m not picking on you. And I am not making any accommodations for the Baha’i faith, which I believe to be false.

I feel the need to speak up whenever any Catholic here is disrespectful to a leader of another faith whose members are here in our home.

To wit: I admonished another poster for calling the leader of the Mormon faith, “Joe”. This dismissal of Joseph Smith was found offensive by our Mormon guests here on the CAFs, and I called the Catholic poster to task for that.

And, to your credit, you have received my gentle nudging with much greater grace than the previous poster. 👍
 
In response to Eddie:

what is the bahai teaching on justice?

**Baha’is accept the concept of justice:

O SON OF SPIRIT!

The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes.

~ Baha’u’llah, The Arabic Hidden Words

**
do the bahai teach that evil is punished?

**"…One is the law which punishes the criminal; but the law prevents only the manifest crime and not the concealed sin; whereas the ideal safeguard, namely, the religion of God, prevents both the manifest and the concealed crime, trains man, educates morals, compels the adoption of virtues and is the all-inclusive power which guarantees the felicity of the world of mankind."
**
~ Abdu’l-Baha, Tablet to the Hague, p. 7

do the bahai teach that individuals are responsible for the evil they do?

Yes

in an earlier post by a bahai, a comment was written that the bahai teach that evil is caused by a lack of spiritual development. are people held accountable for not developing enough spiritually to stop doing evil acts?

People are accountable for their spiritual development.

why would Perfect Being become incarnate more than once?

**Baha’is believe God manifests His attributes for us through His Messengers… We don’t believe God physically incarnates Himself.
**
why could not Pefect Being provide humans all of the information they need in a single incarnation?

If you read the Bible it’s a record of Divine revelation over a thousand years and contains promise of future revelation…

**“Religion is the outer expression of the divine reality. Therefore it must be living, vitalized, moving and progressive. If it be without motion and non-progressive it is without the divine life; it is dead. The divine institutes are continuously active and evolutionary; therefore the revelation of them must be progressive and continuous.”
**
(Abdu’l-Baha, Baha’i World Faith - Abdu’l-Baha Section, p. 224)

the pleasure of a reply from a bahai is sought.

The pleasure is mine Eddie!

🙂
 
do the bahai teach that evil is punished? do the bahai teach that individuals are responsible for the evil they do?

in an earlier post by a bahai, a comment was written that the bahai teach that evil is caused by a lack of spiritual development. are people held accountable for not developing enough spiritually to stop doing evil acts?

.
Eddie,
. Again. I will add a quotation from Abdul Baha, the son of Baha’u’llah, as it seems to reflect the relative nature of evil as the misuse of God-given capacities and misdirected energies for other than the purpose of life. For example, God created the jaw-bone of the donkey so it could chew its food, but Cain used it to kill his brother. Of course this is evil.

the Bahá’í concept of the relationship between good and evil in man. `Abdu’l-Bahá describes it thus:

. “In creation there is no evil, all is good. Certain qualities and natures innate in some men and apparently blameworthy are not so in reality. For example, from the beginning of his life you can see in a nursing child the signs of greed, of anger, and of temper. Then, it may be said, good and evil are innate in the reality of man, and this is contrary to the pure goodness of nature and creation. The answer to this is that greed, which is to ask for something more, is a praiseworthy quality provided that it is used suitably. So, if a man is greedy to acquire science and knowledge, or to become compassionate, generous, and just, it is most praiseworthy. If he exercises his anger and wrath against the bloodthirsty tyrants who are like ferocious beasts, it is very praiseworthy; but if he does not use these qualities in a right way, they are blameworthy… It is the same with all the natural qualities of man, which constitute the capital of life; if they be used and displayed in an unlawful way, they become blameworthy. Therefore, it is clear that creation is purely good.”
As to punishment for evil actions of man, God is aware of all things, rewards all good, and His mercy exceeds His wrath. However, His justice requires punishment for evil deeds. Separation from God is the greatest punishment. In this world we think we can get away with things, but this is a great illusion. We fool only ourselves. When we die, we leave all this illusion behind and face the result of our lives.
. If you don’t mind another quotation from Baha’u’llah, it serves well to answer your question:

. "Grieve thou not over those that have busied themselves with the things of this world, and have forgotten the remembrance of God, the Most Great. By Him Who is the Eternal Truth! The day is approaching when the wrathful anger of the Almighty will have taken hold of them. He, verily, is the Omnipotent, the All-Subduing, the Most Powerful. He shall cleanse the earth from the defilement of their corruption, and shall give it for an heritage unto such of His servants as are nigh unto Him.

Say: O people! Dust fill your mouths, and ashes blind your eyes, for having bartered away the Divine Joseph for the most paltry of prices. Oh, the misery that resteth upon you, ye that are far astray! Have ye imagined in your hearts that ye possess the power to outstrip Him and His Cause? Far from it! To this He, Himself, the All-Powerful, the Most Exalted, the Most Great, doth testify.

Soon shall the blasts of His chastisement beat upon you, and the dust of hell enshroud you. Those men who, having amassed the vanities and ornaments of the earth, have turned away disdainfully from God—these have lost both this world and the world to come. Ere long, will God, with the Hand of Power, strip them of their possessions, and divest them of the robe of His bounty. To this they themselves shall soon witness. Thou, too, shalt testify.

Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth. Had the world been of any worth in His sight, He surely would never have allowed His enemies to possess it, even to the extent of a grain of mustard seed. He hath, however, caused you to be entangled with its affairs, in return for what your hands have wrought in His Cause. This, indeed, is a chastisement which ye, of your own will, have inflicted upon yourselves, could ye but perceive it. Are ye rejoicing in the things which, according to the estimate of God, are contemptible and worthless, things wherewith He proveth the hearts of the doubtful?"
 
And how is your salvation assured? This sounds very much like Christian fundamentalism and the doctrine of “Once Saved Always Saved”.

But my real question is what does salvation mean to a Baha’i? What happens to a “saved” Baha’i after death?
Steve,
. I think that this addresses the nature of the soul of those who truly believe in God and recognize Him, are obedient to His commandments, and live in accordance with His will and purpose. Please, after studying it, if you have further questions, or fell that I have failed to answer your question, let me know.
. Thank you

. "Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty. The movement of My Pen is stilled when it attempteth to befittingly describe the loftiness and glory of so exalted a station.

. The honor with which the Hand of Mercy will invest the soul is such as no tongue can adequately reveal, nor any other earthly agency describe. Blessed is the soul which, at the hour of its separation from the body, is sanctified from the vain imaginings of the peoples of the world. Such a soul liveth and moveth in accordance with the Will of its Creator, and entereth the all-highest Paradise. The Maids of Heaven, inmates of the loftiest mansions, will circle around it, and the Prophets of God and His chosen ones will seek its companionship. With them that soul will freely converse, and will recount unto them that which it hath been made to endure in the path of God, the Lord of all worlds.

. If any man be told that which hath been ordained for such a soul in the worlds of God, the Lord of the throne on high and of earth below, his whole being will instantly blaze out in his great longing to attain that most exalted, that sanctified and resplendent station. … The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men.

. The Prophets and Messengers of God have been sent down for the sole purpose underlying their revelation hath been to educate all men, that they may, at the hour of death, ascend, in the utmost purity and sanctity and with absolute detachment, to the throne of the Most High. The light which these souls radiate is responsible for the progress of the world and the advancement of its peoples. They are like unto leaven which leaveneth the world of being, and constitute the animating force through which the arts and wonders of the world are made manifest. Through them the clouds rain their bounty upon men, and the earth bringeth forth its fruits.

. All things must needs have a cause, a motive power, an animating principle. These souls and symbols of detachment have provided, and will continue to provide, the supreme moving impulse in the world of being. The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother." —Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 155–157.
 
if the bahai teaching is that evil is innate in human beings, does it not follow that evil comes from the creator of human beings?

in other words, Perfect Being created human beings with an innate evilness?
 
if the bahai teaching is that evil is innate in human beings, does it not follow that evil comes from the creator of human beings?

in other words, Perfect Being created human beings with an innate evilness?
Eddie,
. We have been given free will, and I think that is the crux of the issue. We surely would say that God created all things according to His will, and as it says in Genesis,

“He saw that it was good”

. The Baha’i teachings fully agree with this, recognizing the purpose of God in creating man in His image.

. "All praise to the unity of God, and all honor to Him, the sovereign Lord, the incomparable and all-glorious Ruler of the universe, Who, out of utter nothingness, hath created the reality of all things, Who, from naught, hath brought into being the most refined and subtle elements of His creation, and Who, rescuing His creatures from the abasement of remoteness and the perils of ultimate extinction, hath received them into His kingdom of incorruptible glory. Nothing short of His all-encompassing grace, His all-pervading mercy, could have possibly achieved it. How could it, otherwise, have been possible for sheer nothingness to have acquired by itself the worthiness and capacity to emerge from its state of non-existence into the realm of being?

. Having created the world and all that liveth and moveth therein, He, through the direct operation of His unconstrained and sovereign Will, chose to confer upon man the unique distinction and capacity to know Him and to love Him—a capacity that must needs be regarded as the generating impulse and the primary purpose underlying the whole of creation…. Upon the inmost reality of each and every created thing He hath shed the light of one of His names, and made it a recipient of the glory of one of His attributes. Upon the reality of man, however, He hath focused the radiance of all of His names and attributes, and made it a mirror of His own Self. Alone of all created things man hath been singled out for so great a favor, so enduring a bounty."
When we fulfill this “capacity” to know and love God, we surely become what we would call “good” in His sight. Alternatively, when we fail in this regard, we sink to the lowest depths of abasement and essentially consign ourselves to the hell of turning away from Him who is the Source of all good and fail to align ourselves with His will and purpose. This, we call evil, misusing our God-given talents and energies, harming others, and ourselves.
 
So, daler and the other Baha’is here: to what purpose do you believe the disciples stole Jesus’ body and then proclaimed the lie that Jesus actually rose from the dead?

And if you believe that these disciples who stole the body were deceiving the community, why do you believe Christianity to be a worthy and respectable religion? :confused:
Dear PR,
. I think that perhaps you are missing something here. Surely, if the disciples had removed Jesus’ body from the tomb it was for good reason, to secure it to some place where they felt it would not be subject to desecration and further humiliation, having just witnessed the horrible manner in which He was put to death.

. I do not believe or accept any proposition that would indicate deceit on the part of the believers. That would not make any sense and be an injustice to the integrity of their Faith.
. The worthiness and respectability of the religion of Christ is apparent in the “fruits”, which are abundant even still to this day. People do not become spiritual, good, or Godly, by themselves, or on their own. In fact, the opposite is true. The many times people have descended into idolatry, from the father of Abraham to the episode of the calf, to the money changers tables in the Temple, again at the time of Muhammad when the Ka’aba was filled with over 300 idols, which He destroyed, as did Abraham before Him, etc.

. So it is clear that whatever good is latent in man is manifest only through exposure to the Word of God and the Light of the Sun of Truth. There is no way that those who believed in Christ would have set about lying. That doesn’t make any sense and is certainly not what we are suggesting.

. I think this gets back to previous conversations about the experience of Mary and the other disciples when describing that they “saw” that He was “with them”. Mary at first did not recognize Him. Then she realized that He was with her, even as He is with us “When two or more gather and make mention of Me, there I am also”

. Have you ever “seen” Him when you made mention of Him in the company of others? No. Neither have I, but then again, I could say “Yes, I see He is present amongst us.”, and I would be stating the truth. That someone later misinterprets that to mean that you or I saw His physical body in our midst when we made mention of him would be the way a bystander could interpret and pass along the account of the story.

. This, I believe, is what separates those with literal understanding only from seeing the deeper meaning and the truth of His Resurrection. That some need the outward image to be real in order to accept it is something they will hold onto, for otherwise their faith is shattered. Remember that Jesus said

“Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

I do not see Him physically, yet fully believe. I do “see” Him spiritually, however, and that is how I believe.
 
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