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Servant19
Guest
So physically walking through walls coincides with reality??
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SteveVH
Guest
I was responding to Servant’s post:
Servant was attempting to make the point that the fact that the Baha’i faith was 150 years old and hadn’t yet died out that it must be true, not like those that follow false prophets. I have just shown you that Servant’s logic is erroneous. He set the standard of credibility (150 years old and still growing therefore it must be true). The Mormon faith, which is not Christian, by the way, but a unique religion started by a man making his own claims, with its own scriptures, that sprung up about the same time as the Baha’i faith, beats you at that standard and none comes even remotely close to the Catholic Church.
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SteveVH
Guest
It coincides with supernatural reality; with divine reality. Why does it seem so strange that a God who is all powerful would be able to create a glorified body?So physically walking through walls coincides with reality??
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tonyfish58
Guest
Well - A lot happens here in one night, I saw a lot of threads back and fro!
Just for the records we do search the net to find interesting subjects and this thread does come up! Personally I was told about this Forum and the original thought provoking questions that were being asked by the owners of this Forum by another poster and came to have a look.
I suppose there is not much more to say or points left to make, it is obvious scripture tossing is not bringing harmony! But to be fair Harmony is most not likely obtainable on a Forum Dedicated to Catholic Christianity when one is putting forward a far more radical view
I have read the entire Bible Old and New Testament and marveled at the Life of Christ. I did this after becoming a Baha’i. Baha’u’llah inspired me to love Christ and understand what He said. I was then inspired to read the Koran and try to understand what Muhammad said about Christ and God. Upon doing this I found a connection between all the Scriptures and the more one reads them the more one tries to bind them together. How else could it be with One Fold and One shepherd as the ultimate goal?
So I look and love the Bible and Christ with a set of Keys that a Catholic does not have. All I can do is offer this Key and if one wants they can use it to unlock the door of different meaning. If one does not, then you do not have to venture past that door!
I always try to read Scripture with Spiritual and Material understandings, we are told that for every Spiritual Meaning there is also a meaning apparent in Nature. I see no point denying how any one wishes to think about scripture. It is there way and they are entitled to it.
How many here have studied the Life of Baha’u’llah and read His writings? How many here have studies the life and teachings of Muhammad? How can one give judgement without knowledge?
This opens up how it is important for all of us to make our own decisions based on our research, not the research of others.
“O SON OF SPIRIT! The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes”. Baha’u’llah - Hidden Words #2
As a Baha’i I have had to defend the Faith of Christ many times and here on this Forum we also defend the Faith of Christ. We defend it by using the Keys given by Baha’u’llah. I once again encourage you all to read this book, This is the 3rd time posted on this Topic.
reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/ This book explains all the complexities of religion and proves the mission of Christ and all the Prophets.
Given the reply in some of the more recent threads, if it is your wish I will move on and will leave you be! Please advise if this is your wish.
I would like to hang around and talk about what the Love of God and Faith can do for this world, but I leave that all up to you good folk!
Regards Tony
Just for the records we do search the net to find interesting subjects and this thread does come up! Personally I was told about this Forum and the original thought provoking questions that were being asked by the owners of this Forum by another poster and came to have a look.
I suppose there is not much more to say or points left to make, it is obvious scripture tossing is not bringing harmony! But to be fair Harmony is most not likely obtainable on a Forum Dedicated to Catholic Christianity when one is putting forward a far more radical view
I have read the entire Bible Old and New Testament and marveled at the Life of Christ. I did this after becoming a Baha’i. Baha’u’llah inspired me to love Christ and understand what He said. I was then inspired to read the Koran and try to understand what Muhammad said about Christ and God. Upon doing this I found a connection between all the Scriptures and the more one reads them the more one tries to bind them together. How else could it be with One Fold and One shepherd as the ultimate goal?
So I look and love the Bible and Christ with a set of Keys that a Catholic does not have. All I can do is offer this Key and if one wants they can use it to unlock the door of different meaning. If one does not, then you do not have to venture past that door!
I always try to read Scripture with Spiritual and Material understandings, we are told that for every Spiritual Meaning there is also a meaning apparent in Nature. I see no point denying how any one wishes to think about scripture. It is there way and they are entitled to it.
How many here have studied the Life of Baha’u’llah and read His writings? How many here have studies the life and teachings of Muhammad? How can one give judgement without knowledge?
This opens up how it is important for all of us to make our own decisions based on our research, not the research of others.
“O SON OF SPIRIT! The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes”. Baha’u’llah - Hidden Words #2
As a Baha’i I have had to defend the Faith of Christ many times and here on this Forum we also defend the Faith of Christ. We defend it by using the Keys given by Baha’u’llah. I once again encourage you all to read this book, This is the 3rd time posted on this Topic.
reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/ This book explains all the complexities of religion and proves the mission of Christ and all the Prophets.
Given the reply in some of the more recent threads, if it is your wish I will move on and will leave you be! Please advise if this is your wish.
I would like to hang around and talk about what the Love of God and Faith can do for this world, but I leave that all up to you good folk!
Regards Tony
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Servant19
Guest
Steve, fair enough, but what is divine reality?It coincides with supernatural reality; with divine reality. Why does it seem so strange that a God who is all powerful would be able to create a glorified body?
If it Truth coincides with another reality, surely that “other” reality must be defineable, so what is the definition of divine reality?
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tonyfish58
Guest
I was having a look at the rest of the Forum and I came upon a thread about facing east when praying.
I found this post which has thought provoking comments
(When I am at home or when I am certain of the correct direction, I pray facing the East. Praying toward the East is an important part of Eastern Catholic practice. During our Baptismal Rite, we face the West when we renounce and spit towards Satan and face the East while professing Christ.
We face the East because Christ will come from the East in his second coming. This is also why, traditionally, parishes were built so that everyone faces the East during Mass.
Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be).
The signs of the second coming are many and this is where Baha’u’llah does come from!
This is a passage to reflect on from the Kitab-i-Iquan
And likewise, reflect upon the revealed verse concerning the “Qiblih.” When Muḥammad, the Sun of Prophethood, had fled from the dayspring of Bathá unto Yathrib, He continued to turn His face, while praying, unto Jerusalem, the holy city, until the time when the Jews began to utter unseemly words against Him—words which if mentioned would ill befit these pages and would weary the reader. Muḥammad strongly resented these words. Whilst, wrapt in meditation and wonder, He was gazing toward heaven, He heard the kindly Voice of Gabriel, saying: “We behold Thee from above, turning Thy face to heaven; but We will have Thee turn to a Qiblih which shall please Thee.” On a subsequent day, when the Prophet, together with His companions, was offering the noontide prayer, and had already performed two of the prescribed Rik’áts, the Voice of Gabriel was heard again: “Turn Thou Thy face towards the sacred Mosque.” In the midst of that same prayer, Muḥammad suddenly turned His face away from Jerusalem and faced the Ka‘bih. Whereupon, a profound dismay seized suddenly the companions of the Prophet. Their faith was shaken severely. So great was their alarm, that many of them, discontinuing their prayer, apostatized their faith. Verily, God caused not this turmoil but to test and prove His servants. Otherwise, He, the ideal King, could easily have left the Qiblih unchanged, and could have caused Jerusalem to remain the Point of Adoration unto His Dispensation, thereby withholding not from that holy city the distinction of acceptance which had been conferred upon it.
None of the many Prophets sent down, since Moses was made manifest, as Messengers of the Word of God, such as David, Jesus, and others among the more exalted Manifestations who have appeared during the intervening period between the Revelations of Moses and Muḥammad, ever altered the law of the Qiblih. These Messengers of the Lord of creation have, one and all, directed their peoples to turn unto the same direction. In the eyes of God, the ideal King, all the places of the earth are one and the same, excepting that place which, in the days of His Manifestations, He doth appoint for a particular purpose. Even as He hath revealed: “The East and West are God’s: therefore whichever way ye turn, there is the face of God.” Notwithstanding the truth of these facts, why should the Qiblih have been changed, thus casting such dismay amongst the people, causing the companions of the Prophet to waver, and throwing so great a confusion into their midst? Yea, such things as throw consternation into the hearts of all men come to pass only that each soul may be tested by the touchstone of God, that the true may be known and distinguished from the false. Thus hath He revealed after the breach amongst the people: “We did not appoint that which Thou wouldst have to be the Qiblih, but that We might know him who followeth the Apostle from him who turneth on his heels.” “Affrighted asses fleeing from a lion.”
Were you to ponder, but for a while, these utterances in your heart, you would surely find the portals of understanding unlocked before your face, and would behold all knowledge and the mysteries thereof unveiled before your eyes. Such things take place only that the souls of men may develop and be delivered from the prison-cage of self and desire. Otherwise, that ideal King hath, throughout eternity, been in His Essence independent of the comprehension of all beings, and will continue, for ever, in His own Being to be exalted above the adoration of every soul. A single breeze of His affluence doth suffice to adorn all mankind with the robe of wealth; and one drop out of the ocean of His bountiful grace is enough to confer upon all beings the glory of everlasting life. But inasmuch as the divine Purpose hath decreed that the true should be known from the false, and the sun from the shadow, He hath, therefore, in every season sent down upon mankind the showers of tests from His realm of glory.
Link reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/ki-2.html
There is so much for us to learn!
Regards Tony
I found this post which has thought provoking comments
(When I am at home or when I am certain of the correct direction, I pray facing the East. Praying toward the East is an important part of Eastern Catholic practice. During our Baptismal Rite, we face the West when we renounce and spit towards Satan and face the East while professing Christ.
We face the East because Christ will come from the East in his second coming. This is also why, traditionally, parishes were built so that everyone faces the East during Mass.
Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be).
The signs of the second coming are many and this is where Baha’u’llah does come from!
This is a passage to reflect on from the Kitab-i-Iquan
And likewise, reflect upon the revealed verse concerning the “Qiblih.” When Muḥammad, the Sun of Prophethood, had fled from the dayspring of Bathá unto Yathrib, He continued to turn His face, while praying, unto Jerusalem, the holy city, until the time when the Jews began to utter unseemly words against Him—words which if mentioned would ill befit these pages and would weary the reader. Muḥammad strongly resented these words. Whilst, wrapt in meditation and wonder, He was gazing toward heaven, He heard the kindly Voice of Gabriel, saying: “We behold Thee from above, turning Thy face to heaven; but We will have Thee turn to a Qiblih which shall please Thee.” On a subsequent day, when the Prophet, together with His companions, was offering the noontide prayer, and had already performed two of the prescribed Rik’áts, the Voice of Gabriel was heard again: “Turn Thou Thy face towards the sacred Mosque.” In the midst of that same prayer, Muḥammad suddenly turned His face away from Jerusalem and faced the Ka‘bih. Whereupon, a profound dismay seized suddenly the companions of the Prophet. Their faith was shaken severely. So great was their alarm, that many of them, discontinuing their prayer, apostatized their faith. Verily, God caused not this turmoil but to test and prove His servants. Otherwise, He, the ideal King, could easily have left the Qiblih unchanged, and could have caused Jerusalem to remain the Point of Adoration unto His Dispensation, thereby withholding not from that holy city the distinction of acceptance which had been conferred upon it.
None of the many Prophets sent down, since Moses was made manifest, as Messengers of the Word of God, such as David, Jesus, and others among the more exalted Manifestations who have appeared during the intervening period between the Revelations of Moses and Muḥammad, ever altered the law of the Qiblih. These Messengers of the Lord of creation have, one and all, directed their peoples to turn unto the same direction. In the eyes of God, the ideal King, all the places of the earth are one and the same, excepting that place which, in the days of His Manifestations, He doth appoint for a particular purpose. Even as He hath revealed: “The East and West are God’s: therefore whichever way ye turn, there is the face of God.” Notwithstanding the truth of these facts, why should the Qiblih have been changed, thus casting such dismay amongst the people, causing the companions of the Prophet to waver, and throwing so great a confusion into their midst? Yea, such things as throw consternation into the hearts of all men come to pass only that each soul may be tested by the touchstone of God, that the true may be known and distinguished from the false. Thus hath He revealed after the breach amongst the people: “We did not appoint that which Thou wouldst have to be the Qiblih, but that We might know him who followeth the Apostle from him who turneth on his heels.” “Affrighted asses fleeing from a lion.”
Were you to ponder, but for a while, these utterances in your heart, you would surely find the portals of understanding unlocked before your face, and would behold all knowledge and the mysteries thereof unveiled before your eyes. Such things take place only that the souls of men may develop and be delivered from the prison-cage of self and desire. Otherwise, that ideal King hath, throughout eternity, been in His Essence independent of the comprehension of all beings, and will continue, for ever, in His own Being to be exalted above the adoration of every soul. A single breeze of His affluence doth suffice to adorn all mankind with the robe of wealth; and one drop out of the ocean of His bountiful grace is enough to confer upon all beings the glory of everlasting life. But inasmuch as the divine Purpose hath decreed that the true should be known from the false, and the sun from the shadow, He hath, therefore, in every season sent down upon mankind the showers of tests from His realm of glory.
Link reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/ki-2.html
There is so much for us to learn!
Regards Tony
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Randy_Carson
Guest
An ordinary body cannot. However, after rising, Jesus had a glorified body…and so will we when we reach heaven.
Because it was a glorified body and not a normal human body.
Jesus never said he would be physically present in those cases. However, he IS God, and God IS omnipresent.
Of course you do. Otherwise, you would not be Baha’i.
Of course. We call it mystery.
Sure. And we can hold hands and sing “Kumbaya”, as well. But that is not really the point of this forum. You see, some of us Catholics are here to explain and defend the Catholic faith - that’s what apologetics is all about. And occasionally, that means calling out those folks who have wandered away from divine revelation into mere traditions of men.
Ah. Another “either/or” dilemma.
What if it’s both that He wants?
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Randy_Carson
Guest
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Servant19
Guest
Well put, does walking on water coincide with reality?
Again historicity versus spiritual meaning and depth of the Biblical verses are being questioned.
Krishna was also God (so He said) and He lifted a mountain for several days, does the fact that someone claiming to be God and backing it up by doing CRAAAAZY stuff make Him a valid candidate for being God???
Again God is not a magic show. I saw a magician called Dynamo walk on water, and overcome death by stopping his heartbeat for several hours. All he needs to do now is claim to be God and you believe??
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Servant19
Guest
Again, Baha’is are not trying to attack the Catholic Faith. Why does it have to be an us vs them scenario, cowboys and Indians etc??An ordinary body cannot. However, after rising, Jesus had a glorified body…and so will we when we reach heaven.
Because it was a glorified body and not a normal human body.
Jesus never said he would be physically present in those cases. However, he IS God, and God IS omnipresent.
Of course you do. Otherwise, you would not be Baha’i.
Of course. We call it mystery.
Sure. And we can hold hands and sing “Kumbaya”, as well. But that is not really the point of this forum. You see, some of us Catholics are here to explain and defend the Catholic faith - that’s what apologetics is all about. And occasionally, that means calling out those folks who have wandered away from divine revelation into mere traditions of men.
Ah. Another “either/or” dilemma.
What if it’s both that He wants?
We are one Randy, all the Fathers children and striving to be close to Him. What we as Baha’is would like to be certain of is if clinging onto a resurrection in actuality may draw us away from the Father. Baha’is do WORKS.
Clinging onto ideas so that we can do our own thing may not necessarily be aligned with Gods Will. It conforms with reality that ALL religions have been praying for millennia for the nations to be one, thy Kingdom come, thy Will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
This is done through a spiritual transformation of hearts. The Internet, as you have claimed, will not transform hearts to bring about mass submission to Bahaullah. The Bahai Faith is accompanying souls towards a tender love for God and humanity through a nurturing process, not a almighty proclamation on the Internet where everyone suddenly bows down. Again, God is not a magic show
Through accompaniment, empowerment and tender loving care will the hearts of men be fostered towards a sustainable, everlasting kingdom of earth as it is in heaven.
It’s a hard job, but it will get easier as the numbers grow. It requires commitment, fortitude, patience, love, perseverance and determination with humility, purity and sincerity. There is no godly virtue untouched when Baha’is steel themselves for this almighty revolution.
It most certainly is not easy being a Bahai. There is no one watching over you, you know what is your responsibility through study of the Writings and suddenly become aware that there is a spiritual contract which you have made with the Father. All of a sudden you are committed to act.
Unfortunately the lethargies imposed upon men and women by a morally corrupt society makes the decision to arise and break the shackles of immorality a difficult one, so progress is slow.
The same difficulties were encountered by early Christianity. The high levels of morality demanded by Christ was eons ahead of anything present in society at the time. People rejected it because it put them out of their comfort zone.
Let us reason together…
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PRmerger
Guest
Umm…yeah.So physically walking through walls coincides with reality??
I am curious as to how you believe that God could create the entire universe. Out of nothing.
Yet you don’t believe that He could walk through walls.
Strange, this inability to fathom the God of the Universe, in a glorified state, being able to do that. :whacky:
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Servant19
Guest
Yes HE may well be able to walk through walls, but the theology says that YOU can too when He returns.
The new heaven and a new earth with billions of Gods?
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PRmerger
Guest
Indeed!
And guess what, Servant. There are a multitude of souls who can hear your prayers. That seems pretty outrageous for a human soul, doesn’t it?
We have been blessed by a God of the Universe who tells us that eye has not seen nor ear heard what God has ready for those who love Him.
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PRmerger
Guest
St. Paul did.
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PRmerger
Guest
Yep. And the language that your holy leaders wrote in may be extinct in a few centuries.
By your criterion anyone will be able to dismiss their writings. :sad_yes:
It’s quite a parochial and insular (and discriminatory) standard to have.
Would that you had a more catholic criterion. That would permit a multitude of cultures to be able to have access to the truth!
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PRmerger
Guest
That’s why we have a Church, and the vicar of Christ in the chair of Peter. “Renewed guidance for humankind.”Language evolution is part of the reason why God does provide renewed guidance for mankind…no shooting in the foot at all
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Randy_Carson
Guest
“Does walking on water coincide with reality?”
How does one even begin to answer such a question?
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Servant19
Guest
Hang on you’re talking about a human soul here, not a physical body.
Yes God has something amazing awaiting us as His lovers, but no eye has seen, because no eye is needed, and no ear has heard because no ear is needed.
In fact, what God has in store for us requires NOTHING physical at all
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Mark 12:24
Are you not in error because you do not know the scriptures or the power of God?
1 John 3:2
Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Is it just me, or does this thread have the soundtrack from The Matrix playing in the background?
“I’m trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You’re the one that has to walk through it.”
“I’m trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You’re the one that has to walk through it.”
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