BAHA'I thread III - feel free to ask of Baha'i any questions

[doormouse73]

why do the bahai believe that what bahaullah wrote and said came from God?

not all spirits are of God,so if it does not agree with what Jesus told/shown us, then im afraid it is not of God… otherwise God would be contradicting himself.

which im quite convinced he does not do that,he does not abrogate or tell lies…

God sent his only begotten son,Jesus Christ…

 

[daler]

Now you have gone too far. You are now mocking the holy miracles of Jesus Christ as nothing more than a magic show. This is extremely offensive to Catholics in whose house you are a guest. Jesus never performed a miracle that did not have a deeper and more profound spiritual effect. His healing of one’s body was a sign of the interior healing of that person’s soul. But it was a real physical healing just as it was a real spiritual healing, not a magic show. How dare you mock the holy works of God.

Jesus knew what they were thinking and asked, “Why are you thinking these things in your hearts? Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the paralyzed man, “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” Immediately he stood up in front of them, took what he had been lying on and went home praising God. Everyone was amazed and gave praise to God. They were filled with awe and said, “We have seen remarkable things today.” (Luke 5:22-26)

Steve,
. I don’t think that Servant meant to mock. The point he was making was more in line with what you have just said, that there was always a spiritual lesson being taught and a healing of the soul. We are very much with you on that. So please forgive him if the way he put it did not sound right. When he comes back, you might ask him to clarify what he meant. Maybe even rephrase what he said.

. I suspect the point he was trying to make is that the greatest miracle Jesus performed was to change the hearts of men. When the “miracle” of the loaves and fishes is told, He first tells his disciples to share all of their food with others. It is quite possible that in setting this example, others began sharing with complete strangers unknown to them, Jews with Gentiles, etc. The true miracle is that people recognized others as human beings on a deeper level and that an expansion of a spiritual community was the true miracle wrought by His teaching, even in accordance with the story of the Good Samaritan. Also by His Words,

" “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister"

 

[daler]

not all spirits are of God,so if it does not agree with what Jesus told/shown us, then im afraid it is not of God… otherwise God would be contradicting himself.

which im quite convinced he does not do that,he does not abrogate or tell lies…

God sent his only begotten son,Jesus Christ…

Psalm 2:7
King James Version (KJV) Referring to David:

. “I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”

It would appear that God has begotten two sons…

 

[eddie_too]

daler,

nothing personal, but your writing display extreme ignorance of christian teachings and belief.

i guess that is to be expected since you believe in the teachings of a mere man.

there is a good chance that if you educated yourself on the teachings and history of the catholic church, you would no longer fall for the teachings of a mere man.

 

[doormouse73]

Psalm 2:7
King James Version (KJV) Referring to David:

. “I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”

It would appear that God has begotten two sons…

Quare fremuerunt. The vain efforts of persecutors against Christ and his church.

[1] Why have the Gentiles raged, and the people devised vain things? [2] The kings of the earth stood up, and the princes met together, against the Lord and against his Christ. [3] Let us break their bonds asunder: and let us cast away their yoke from us. [4] He that dwelleth in heaven shall laugh at them: and the Lord shall deride them. [5] Then shall he speak to them in his anger, and trouble them in his rage.

[6] But I am appointed king by him over Sion his holy mountain, preaching his commandment. [7] The Lord hath said to me: Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee. [8] Ask of me, and I will give thee the Gentiles for thy inheritance, and the utmost parts of the earth for thy possession. [9] Thou shalt rule them with a rod of iron, and shalt break them in pieces like a potter’ s vessel. [10] And now, O ye kings, understand: receive instruction, you that judge the earth.

[11] Serve ye the Lord with fear: and rejoice unto him with trembling. [12] Embrace discipline, lest at any time the Lord be angry, and you perish from the just way. [13] When his wrath shall be kindled in a short time, blessed are all they that trust in him.

no just one begotten son Jesus Christ

why cherry pick you questions to answer? you seem to do this all the time…

answer me this please…from my last post…

not all spirits are of God,so if it does not agree with what Jesus told/shown us, then im afraid it is not of God… otherwise God would be contradicting himself.

which im quite convinced he does not do that,he does not abrogate or tell lies…

 

[daler]

why do the bahai believe that what bahaullah wrote and said came from God?

Eddie,
. This is a very valid question. I think that people come to their beliefs in different ways. For some, it is the weight of evidence, such as fulfillment of prophecies, literally hundreds of prophecies, not only from the Old and New Testament, but all religions of the world.

. For others, it was simply being in the presence of Baha’u’llah. Many of those who attained His presence stood in no need of further proof. There were also miracles, but like Jesus, He always said not to speak of them.

. For people like me, it is evident in the words themselves, at least at this point in my life. The prophecies as well, were very important for me. Its like both sides of my brain needed to be involved to cross check the other.

. Also, from His prison cell He wrote to various leaders and kings, warning them not to turn away from God, and foretelling their downfall. In each case, He was correct, and this alone convinced many people, for these kings were all very powerful and seemingly impossible that they would fall, such as Napoleon III, Sultan Abdul Aziz, Czar Alexander, Kaiser Wilhelm, the Shah. The dramatic turn of events has baffled historians even to this day, yet all had one thing in common. Each had received a letter from Baha’u’llah while yet a prisoner.

 

[daler]

daler,

nothing personal, but your writing display extreme ignorance of christian teachings and belief.

i guess that is to be expected since you believe in the teachings of a mere man.

there is a good chance that if you educated yourself on the teachings and history of the catholic church, you would no longer fall for the teachings of a mere man.

Eddie,
. The Baha’is respond as best they can to people of every religion on earth. To certain Muslims, they are entrenched in their own superstitions and beliefs, each sect asserting this or that. To Buddhists, according to their traditions, all have their expectations. Also Hindus, Jews, Native Americans, etc, etc.

and if you educated yourself on the teachings of history and the Baha’i Faith, you would no longer fall for the teachings of a mere church…

 

[daler]

no just one begotten son Jesus Christ

why cherry pick you questions to answer? you seem to do this all the time…

answer me this please…from my last post…

Door,
. If you read Psalms 2:7, David is described as the begotten Son of God

. " I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."

. I’m afraid the Bible cherry picked this one for you.

. As for Baha’is, we do not believe that God physically begets anyone, but rather this term denotes a spiritual proximity or intimacy, describing the relationship between God and His Messengers

 

[eddie_too]

i fall, hook line and sinker, for the teachings of the Incarnate Word.

what prophecies from the old and new testaments do you think bahaullah fulfilled?

is there a list somewhere?

 

[daler]

i fall, hook line and sinker, for the teachings of the Incarnate Word.

what prophecies from the old and new testaments do you think bahaullah fulfilled?

is there a list somewhere?

Eddie,
. They are numerous. Here is one link:

bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/

 

[eddie_too]

daler,

the verse you use says “this day”. begotten in this context cannot mean the same as begotten in the context of Jesus.

cherry picking is what all non-catholic religions do to justify their beliefs.

taking words out of context ( and by context i am not referring ONLY to the surrounding verses, but to the totality of the catholic faith that includes far more than the words of the bible) allows people to believe in untruths, in fiction, in the imaginings of people who believe (or maybe use for their own goals) they speak for God.

you obviously do not have sufficient knowledge of the catholic faith to make rational objections to what it is.

i guess that is obvious from what you write and the fact that you have fallen for words that are far from descriptive of reality.

think about it. on one hand you have many people since the first Pentecost Sunday claiming to mouth and write the words of God. few of them agree. many of their words are flowery and fatuously uplifting. one after the other they appear in history. they all claim a connection to Jesus. none provide an ounce of evidence to support their claim that they mouth and speak the words of God.

on the other hand, you have the Incarnate Word who raised Himself from the dead.

to an objective

 

[Nick44]

Psalm 2:7
King James Version (KJV) Referring to David:

. “I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”

It would appear that God has begotten two sons…

Israel is also symbolically declared to be the ‘son of God’.

Quote: “And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn”. (Exodus 4:22)

 

[eddie_too]

sounds like you do not know what prophecies from the old and new testament bahaullah fulfilled.

i read your link. much of what is found there is entirely speculative and extremely contorted.

i will remain in the arms of the Incarnate Word.

you have the power to stay out of those arms, but it is not a choice i would recommend.

 

[SteveVH]

Steve,
. I don’t think that Servant meant to mock.

Really? Let’s take another look at what he said, shall we?

Originally Posted by Servant19
If the magic show is what your after, there’s plenty of magic. Personally, I find the magic show of seeing a person transform from a gnat into an eagle far far more awe-inspiring. Sure beats walking on water for me. Just my own personal opinion

The point he was making was more in line with what you have just said, that there was always a spiritual lesson being taught and a healing of the soul. We are very much with you on that.

No, you are not very much with me on that. Jesus’ miracles were real in order to prove his authority. His healing of a blind man or a lame man or walking on water or commanding the wind and the sea all really happened. The fact that there is even greater significance in the spiritual healing does not discount the fact that the physical healings also occurred.

I suspect the point he was trying to make is that the greatest miracle Jesus performed was to change the hearts of men. When the “miracle” of the loaves and fishes is told, He first tells his disciples to share all of their food with others. It is quite possible that in setting this example, others began sharing with complete strangers unknown to them, Jews with Gentiles, etc.

Yeah, I’ve heard that one a thousand times. The other possibility is that he miraculously multiplied the loaves and fishes. That is what the Church, who spoke the same language as the Apostles, believed after hearing the account from those very Apostles.

The words of Servant19 were mocking our Lord and are there for all to see.

 

[eddie_too]

the bottom line for faithful christians is that Jesus died on the cross for their sins.

christians wonder why people believe in the teachings of a man that contradict the teachings of Jesus who died for their sins.

in addition, that same, self-proclaimed supplanter of Jesus did nothing positive for christians. he (bahaullah) only lived in a manner that demeans Christ’s sacrifice and sought to turn people away from the salvation offered by Christ.

Jesus died for me. bahaullah did nothing for me.

the choice between the two is glaringly obvious for a person seeking truth.

 

[SteveVH]

stevevh,

i do not think the bahai teachings on sin in any way resemble what Jesus taught about sin.

it IS totally absurd to write off all of the Lord’s miracles as the reporting of dupes as the bahai do.

but, the bahai are a non-christian religion, even more so than the mormons.

ask yourself, how else could a man claim spiritual authority after Pentecost Sunday without proclaiming that Jesus was not the Incarnate Word.

bahaullah was not stupid. he knew his teachings must diminish the teachings of Jesus if bahaullah’s teachings were to receive any credibility.

i am not saying bahaullah was a hypocrite or a charlatan. i am saying bahaullah could not have claimed spiritual authority if he believed in Christ.

The Baha’i teachings resemble none of those religions from which they borrowed their material. It would be much better of they just flat out rejected Christ rather than twisting his words and deeds into something they are not. Baha’u’llah was an imposter with a lot of time on his hands. The only thing he has said that is new is that he is the second coming of Jesus Christ (even though he now lies dead in the ground). That is flat out blasphemy. We can only hope that there was a moment, before his death, that he repented.

 

[rinnie]

After reading 3000 posts Steve, you’re no closer, it seems, to understanding how Bahaullah was a Unique Individual.

Does the martyrdom of tens of thousands of people (recorded with written testimonies) in His and the Babs name mean nothing either?

Does the fact that this proclamation has caused millions of people to devote their lives to service and self sacrifice for others mean nothing either?

Again, I ask you for the umteenth time, show me one organization that is creating community transformation even close to what the global Bahai community is engaged in today. Just one example please. A link will suffice.

Pretty much any of the Catholic Saints.’

Like even today I still pray and ask for the Prayers of St Monica, how her faith and prayers changed her Son into what he was and what he became.

I ask St Jude to pray for me when I feel hopeless. We all do now and then, it always makes me feel better.

I could go on and on how the Saints helped transform the lives of millions back when, and are still doing it today.

I understand how you feel this Man was a unique individual, but was he ever called a Saint. Our dear St John Paul ll is. You just don’t gain Sainthood for nothing.

He continues today to transform lives and will forever.

But as unique and wonderful he was we NEVER compare him to Jesus Christ our Lord God. never.

You are tying to compare a human to God Almighty and that cannot be done.

 

[rinnie]

Can Baha’i offer me forgiveness for my sins.
Did he die so I could live.
Did he show me eternal life.
Did he promise me salvation through him.
Did he offer up his body and blood for eternal food for my soul.
Did he cure the sick.
Give sight to the blind.
Feed the hungry.
Did he lay down his life for those he loved.
Did he guarantee us eternal life if we obey his commands.
Is he merciful beyond all belief.
Did he know what I was thinking.
Did he predict what one would do before he did it.’’
Does he know every single hair on my head, did he know me before I was ever born.
Did he know the day I came into this world the day he would take me out.

 

[rinnie]

Eddie,
. This is a very valid question. I think that people come to their beliefs in different ways. For some, it is the weight of evidence, such as fulfillment of prophecies, literally hundreds of prophecies, not only from the Old and New Testament, but all religions of the world.

. For others, it was simply being in the presence of Baha’u’llah. Many of those who attained His presence stood in no need of further proof. There were also miracles, but like Jesus, He always said not to speak of them.

. For people like me, it is evident in the words themselves, at least at this point in my life. The prophecies as well, were very important for me. Its like both sides of my brain needed to be involved to cross check the other.

. Also, from His prison cell He wrote to various leaders and kings, warning them not to turn away from God, and foretelling their downfall. In each case, He was correct, and this alone convinced many people, for these kings were all very powerful and seemingly impossible that they would fall, such as Napoleon III, Sultan Abdul Aziz, Czar Alexander, Kaiser Wilhelm, the Shah. The dramatic turn of events has baffled historians even to this day, yet all had one thing in common. Each had received a letter from Baha’u’llah while yet a prisoner.

Yes Jesus said not to speak of his miracles, but you know People it only made them speak more.

But there were some he performed miracles to prove who he was.

What concrete can you tell me about your great leader. No just words.

By the way anyone who turns away from God will experience a downfall. That pretty much common sense.

When God is absent the devil enters.

But as far as a physical downfall many have not turned away from God and still had what this world would consider downfall.

Look at John the Baptist he proclaimed the good news of God and received what this world would see as a great downfall. The loss of his head.

But the spiritual gain was eternal life in Christ. But not many could see this.

 

[rinnie]

Eddie,
. I cannot comprehend quantum physics, but I accept it at some level. I comprehend algebra first by learning simple numbers and letters, then come to understand how various symbols can represent ever higher and more complex formulas. There is no contradiction when one seriously studies math. We progress by opening our minds to the constructs given.
. As to whether or not one is a Baha’i, or Christian, or Jew, for that matter, what is perhaps more important is what is blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, which Christ says is not forgivable.
. Rather than copy and paste, the following link explains this in detail (only one page) and I believe answers your question:

reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-31.html

What that actually means if rejecting or not accepting God. Any other sin that you do and are sorry for can be forgiven.

But if you refuse to accept God you are out.