Baha'i V

[tonyfish58]

I would agree, I was merely curious as to whether this is considered to be something indefinite and perpetual - ie inherent in the order of creation - or whether it is more a reality in the earthly world.

Vouthon - Thank you for the kind reply. I respect and admire your approach to these discussions. Truly Unity in Diversity

I would say it would be like me trying to say hello to the Sun and walking up to it to shake its hand

There would be nothing left of me, well before getting even close. I can not even directly look at it without becoming blind to the light!

Thus the Mediator will always give me the right amount of Sun for my given Capacity. To me that is the Pure Love, that is, without knowing it or even appreciating it, we are always guided to get our share of the Light.

Regards Tony

 

[Vouthon]

God (Essence) always requires a mediator both here and ‘there’.

Dear Nick,

Thank you for the reply! This is most interesting because in my tradition it is quite different. Discussion of this difference might help us evaluate why our respective religious traditions have reached the conclusion that they have.

Catholics believe in a doctrine known as, “The Beatific Vision”. It holds that the final aim and end of the entire divine economy is for man, made in the image of God, to have direct, unmediated:

1. access to
2. experience
3. awareness and
4. vision

of the Essence of God.

It was explained authoritatively by St. Thomas Aquinas in his Summa Contra Gentiles, written under the pontificate of Urban IV (1261-1264) :

How God is seen as He essentially is

AS shown above (Chap. XLIX), the divine substance cannot be seen by the intellect in any created presentation. Hence, if God’s essence is to be seen, the intelligence must see it in the divine essence itself, so that in such vision the divine essence shall be at once the object which is seen and that whereby it is seen.

This is the immediate vision of God that is promised us in Scripture: We see now in a glass darkly, but then face to face (i Cor. xiii, 2): a text absurd to take in a corporeal sense, as though we could imagine a bodily face in Deity itself, whereas it has been shown that God is incorporeal (B. I, Chap. XX). Nor again is it possible for us with our bodily face to see God, since the bodily sense of sight, implanted in our face, can be only of bodily things. Thus then shalt we see God face to face, in that we shall have an immediate vision of Him, as of a man whom we see face to face. By this vision we are singularly assimilated to God, and are partakers in His happiness: for this is His happiness, that He essentially understands His own substance. Hence it is said: When He shall appear, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is (i John iii, 2). *And the Lord said: I prepare for you as my Father hath prepared for me a kingdom, that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom *(Luke xxii, 29). This cannot be understood of bodily meat and drink, but of that food which is taken at the table of Wisdom, whereof it is said by Wisdom: Eat ye my bread and drink the wine that I have mingled for you (Prov. ix, 5). They therefore eat and drink at the table of God, who enjoy the same happiness wherewith God is happy, seeing Him in the way which He sees Himself

www2.nd.edu/Departments//Maritain/etext/gc3_51.htm

My understanding of Baha’i belief is that such a doctrine would be potentially scandalous or downright rejected because Baha’is do not believe that human beings will ever, whether in this life or the next, have direct and unmediated access to the Essence of God.

Catholics believe that the Essence of God is unknowable (in one sense), like Baha’is, yet we sill believe that we will “see” (spiritually) God as he is in Himself, although we will never comprehend him fully. We can therefore “see” or "know " (put in a different sense)His “Essence” without ever comprehending it because we are finite and He is Infinite. It would be like attempting to fill a tiny pitcher jar with the entire pacific ocean. It would break!

This “Beatific Vision” is the “reward” and only “reward” of heaven: to see and love God as He is in His Divine Essence without an intermediary separating us from Him.

What’s more we will partake in and “enjoy the same happiness wherewith God is happy, seeing Him in the way which He sees Himself”.

It is in this way that that Catholics believe in the doctrine of “theosis”: that God became man so that man might become, by grace, what God is by nature and participate through grace in His Divine Nature.

This would be highly objectionable to Baha’is, am I right?

 

[Nick44]

This is along the lines of trying to explain sight and colors to one born blind.

I reread that line and want to be sure you know I wasn’t referring to you as being ‘blind’ but as to the hopelessness of trying to describe conditions we know nothing about, and even if we did, we have no language to convey it. If the child in the womb asked, “Hey, tell me what it’s like out there?” where would one start?

 

[Vouthon]

Nick44;11333594:

This is along the lines of trying to explain sight and colors to one born blind.

I reread that line and want to be sure you know I wasn’t referring to you as being ‘blind’ but as to the hopelessness of trying to describe conditions we know nothing about, and even if we did, we have no language to convey it. If the child in the womb asked, “Hey, tell me what it’s like out there?” where would one start?

LOL No worries Nick, I didn’t think that you were accusing me of being blind anyway I got your meaning!

 

[Nick44]

Dear Nick,

My understanding of Baha’i belief is that such a doctrine would be potentially scandalous or downright rejected because Baha’is do not believe that human beings will ever, whether in this life or the next, have direct and unmediated access to the Essence of God.

Vouthon, you’d be hard pressed to find any Baha’i who finds Catholic belief scandalous, quite the contrary! You love God, follow Jesus, and try to be helpful to those around you:thumbsup:

As far as what it means to ‘see’ God in the next world, who knows what that will be like? We both believe it’ll be an E Ticket no matter what form it takes, and no matter what words and terms we use to try and convey it.

 

[arthra]

Do Baha’is expect to have direct and unmediated access to God in the life to come, without the need for a Manifestation or Divine Messenger to act as an intermediary between individual souls and God?

My reply:

As Baha’is we turn to the revealed Writings to find some ideas…

The promise can be found here:

The purpose of God in creating man hath been, and will ever be, to enable him to know his Creator and to attain His Presence. To this most excellent aim, this supreme objective, all the heavenly Books and the divinely-revealed and weighty Scriptures unequivocally bear witness. Whoso hath recognized the Day Spring of Divine guidance and entered His holy court hath drawn nigh unto God and attained His Presence, a Presence which is the real Paradise, and of which the loftiest mansions of heaven are but a symbol. Such a man hath attained the knowledge of the station of Him Who is “at the distance of two bows,” Who standeth beyond the Sadratu’l-Muntaha.

Whoso hath failed to recognize Him will have condemned himself to the misery of remoteness, a remoteness which is naught but utter nothingness and the essence of the nethermost fire. Such will be his fate, though to outward seeming he may occupy the earth’s loftiest seats and be established upon its most exalted throne.

He Who is the Day Spring of Truth is, no doubt, fully capable of rescuing from such remoteness wayward souls and of causing them to draw nigh unto His court and attain His Presence.

~ Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 70

and

This is the Day whereon He Who is the Revealer of the names of God hath stepped out of the Tabernacle of glory, and proclaimed unto all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth: “Put away the cups of Paradise and all the life-giving waters they contain, for lo, the people of Baha have entered the blissful abode of the Divine Presence, and quaffed the wine of reunion, from the chalice of the beauty of their Lord, the All-Possessing, the Most High.”

~ Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 32

 

[Vouthon]

Vouthon, you’d be hard pressed to find any Baha’i who finds Catholic belief scandalous, quite the contrary! You love God, follow Jesus, and try to be helpful to those around you:thumbsup:

As far as what it means to ‘see’ God in the next world, who knows what that will be like? We both believe it’ll be an E Ticket no matter what form it takes, and no matter what words and terms we use to try and convey it.

I agree, we both believe that we will come into His Presence, His “Kingdom” (not literally but spiritually speaking) and human imagination is not capable of fathoming what we shall be like in the next world (“eye has not seen, ear has not heard, mind hath not conceived what God has prepared for those who love him”)

I simply was curious if Baha’is would have a problem with Catholic teaching on the “unmediated access” of the blessed to the Essence given the very extensive (and beautiful) Baha’i teachings on the unknowability and unapproachability of the Divine Essence.

 

[Vouthon]

As Baha’is we turn to the revealed Writings to find some ideas…

The promise can be found here:

The purpose of God in creating man hath been, and will ever be, to enable him to know his Creator and to attain His Presence. To this most excellent aim, this supreme objective, all the heavenly Books and the divinely-revealed and weighty Scriptures unequivocally bear witness. Whoso hath recognized the Day Spring of Divine guidance and entered His holy court hath drawn nigh unto God and attained His Presence, a Presence which is the real Paradise, and of which the loftiest mansions of heaven are but a symbol. Such a man hath attained the knowledge of the station of Him Who is “at the distance of two bows,” Who standeth beyond the Sadratu’l-Muntaha.

Whoso hath failed to recognize Him will have condemned himself to the misery of remoteness, a remoteness which is naught but utter nothingness and the essence of the nethermost fire. Such will be his fate, though to outward seeming he may occupy the earth’s loftiest seats and be established upon its most exalted throne.

He Who is the Day Spring of Truth is, no doubt, fully capable of rescuing from such remoteness wayward souls and of causing them to draw nigh unto His court and attain His Presence.

~ Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 70

and

This is the Day whereon He Who is the Revealer of the names of God hath stepped out of the Tabernacle of glory, and proclaimed unto all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth: “Put away the cups of Paradise and all the life-giving waters they contain, for lo, the people of Baha have entered the blissful abode of the Divine Presence, and quaffed the wine of reunion, from the chalice of the beauty of their Lord, the All-Possessing, the Most High.”

~ Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 32

Beautiful quotations, thank you Arthra

 

[Nick44]

Beautiful quotations, thank you Arthra

Please allow me to share some further Writings from Baha’u’llah on the subject:

"And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of 156 God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty. The movement of My Pen is stilled when it attempteth to befittingly describe the loftiness and glory of so exalted a station. The honor with which the Hand of Mercy will invest the soul is such as no tongue can adequately reveal, nor any other earthly agency describe. Blessed is the soul which, at the hour of its separation from the body, is sanctified from the vain imaginings of the peoples of the world. Such a soul liveth and moveth in accordance with the Will of its Creator, and entereth the all-highest Paradise. The Maids of Heaven, inmates of the loftiest mansions, will circle around it, and the Prophets of God and His chosen ones will seek its companionship. With them that soul will freely converse, and will recount unto them that which it hath been made to endure in the path of God, the Lord of all worlds. If any man be told that which hath been ordained for such a soul in the worlds of God, the Lord of the throne on high and of earth below, his whole being will instantly blaze out in his great longing to attain that most exalted, that sanctified and resplendent station…. The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men. The Prophets and Messengers of God have been sent down for the sole purpose of guiding mankind to the 157 straight Path of Truth. The purpose underlying Their revelation hath been to educate all men, that they may, at the hour of death, ascend, in the utmost purity and sanctity and with absolute detachment, to the throne of the Most High. The light which these souls radiate is responsible for the progress of the world and the advancement of its peoples. They are like unto leaven which leaveneth the world of being, and constitute the animating force through which the arts and wonders of the world are made manifest. Through them the clouds rain their bounty upon men, and the earth bringeth forth its fruits. All things must needs have a cause, a motive power, an animating principle. These souls and symbols of detachment have provided, and will continue to provide, the supreme moving impulse in the world of being. The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation. Such an existence is a contingent and not an absolute existence, inasmuch as the former is preceded by a cause, whilst the latter is independent thereof. Absolute existence is strictly confined to God, exalted be His glory. Well is it with them that apprehend this truth. Wert thou to ponder in thine heart the behavior of the Prophets of God thou wouldst assuredly and readily testify 158 that there must needs be other worlds besides this world. The majority of the truly wise and learned have, throughout the ages, as it hath been recorded by the Pen of Glory in the Tablet of Wisdom, borne witness to the truth of that which the holy Writ of God hath revealed. Even the materialists have testified in their writings to the wisdom of these divinely-appointed Messengers, and have regarded the references made by the Prophets to Paradise, to hell fire, to future reward and punishment, to have been actuated by a desire to educate and uplift the souls of men. Consider, therefore, how the generality of mankind, whatever their beliefs or theories, have recognized the excellence, and admitted the superiority, of these Prophets of God. These Gems of Detachment are acclaimed by some as the embodiments of wisdom, while others believe them to be the mouthpiece of God Himself. How could such Souls have consented to surrender themselves unto their enemies if they believed all the worlds of God to have been reduced to this earthly life? Would they have willingly suffered such afflictions and torments as no man hath ever experienced or witnessed? (Gleanings, pg 155-58)

 

[daler]

If the end of the world has come, as you claim, they why is there still evil in the world. When the end of the world comes all evil is cast out,

Do you really believe that this is Heaven? Why if it is does it once again contradict the word of God. No more tears, suffering, death, sadness, hurt, evil. I am so confused by your teaching.

Do you really see no hate and violence in this world? Do you really think this is what heaven is?

Rinnie,
. As the physical clouds rain down from the heavens upon the earth, which is the recipient of the outpouring, and the fields blossom, grow, and yield fruit, so to are meant the terms of a “new heaven and new earth” in a spiritual sense.

. The New Heaven of Revelation rains upon the soil of the New Earth of men’s hearts, and those who receive the divine bounty of this revelation and accept the spiritual outpouring blossom, grow, and yield their fruit.

. Those who turn away from the New Heaven, holding solely to last year’s rain, remain in the old condition of the soil which has long since begun to dry up. Hence, the weeds of sufferning, death, and sadness are all that appear. The violence continues, not because there is no “new heaven and new earth”, but because people are veiled from it.

.

 

[daler]

No. They were hypocrites who held the law over the people but could not keep it themselves.

We are speaking of infallibility, daler, not impeccability. Even a sinful pope is protected from allowing error to enter into the Church’s dogmas and doctrines. Infallibility is very misunderstood by many. It has nothing to do with the worthiness of a person.

Steve,
. While it was the duty of the Pharisees to direct people to the promised Messiah, they were so busy keeping the letter of the law that they had lost the spirit. Yes? Thus, they were shut out when the Lord of the Vineyard came.

. As to Infallibility, the Institution of the Universal House of Justice is guaranteed by Baha’u’llah to be freed from error, protected from human deficiencies, for it is the Will of God as expressed by the Pen which He Himself hath fashioned.

. That there are always deniers, as Nimrod denied Abraham, and Pharaoh denied Moses, and the Pharisees denied Christ, does not mean that Abraham, Moses, and Jesus were not Who They claimed to be, nor that Their sovereignty was not true.

. " And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord’s House shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills, and all nations shall flow unto it.
. And many people shall go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord (Mt Carmel), to the House of the God of Jacob, and He shall teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the Law, and the Word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
. And He shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.” . Isaiah 2

 

[daler]

But could Baha’is also attest to the reality of creation ex nihilo (from nothing)?

“He need only say: “BE” and it is.”

 

[tonyfish58]

Dear Nick,

Thank you for the reply! This is most interesting because in my tradition it is quite different. Discussion of this difference might help us evaluate why our respective religious traditions have reached the conclusion that they have.
Catholics believe in a doctrine known as, “The Beatific Vision”. It holds that the final aim and end of the entire divine economy is for man, made in the image of God, to have direct, unmediated:

1. access to
2. experience
3. awareness and
4. vision

My understanding of Baha’i belief is that such a doctrine would be potentially scandalous or downright rejected because Baha’is do not believe that human beings will ever, whether in this life or the next, have direct and unmediated access to the Essence of God.

This would be highly objectionable to Baha’is, am I right?

Vouthon - No it is in no way objectionable, it may be we have not really thought about it and it may be so?. I for one have not studied this aspect in any detail! After a quick search I have come up with this passage. I have put a part of the quote in Bold Blue. It would seem to say otherwise that what we have said. Link - reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-81.html

…“And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death.
Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to Progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving-kindness and bounty. The movement of My Pen is stilled when it attempteth to befittingly describe the loftiness and glory of so exalted a station. The honor with which the Hand of Mercy will invest the soul is such as no tongue can adequately reveal, nor any other earthly agency describe. Blessed is the soul which, at the hour of its separation from the body, is sanctified from the vain imaginings of the peoples of the world. Such a soul liveth and moveth in accordance with the Will of its Creator, and entereth the all-highest Paradise. The Maids of Heaven, inmates of the loftiest mansions, will circle around it, and the Prophets of God and His chosen ones will seek its companionship. With them that soul will freely converse, and will recount unto them that which it hath been made to endure in thepath of God, the Lord of all worlds. If any man be told that which hath been ordained for such a soul in the worlds of God, the Lord of the throne on high and of earth below, his whole being will instantly blaze out in his great longing to attain that most exalted, that sanctified and resplendent station… The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men…” Bahá’u’lláh Gleanings, pp. 155-158

Regards Tony

 

[daler]

If the end of the world has come, as you claim, they why is there still evil in the world. When the end of the world comes all evil is cast out,

Do you really believe that this is Heaven? Why if it is does it once again contradict the word of God. No more tears, suffering, death, sadness, hurt, evil. I am so confused by your teaching.

Do you really see no hate and violence in this world? Do you really think this is what heaven is?

Rinnie,
. You do have a point. The Bab has addressed this:

. “By the righteousness of Him Who is the Absolute Truth, were the veil to be lifted, thou wouldst witness on this earthly plane all men sorely afflicted with the fire of the wrath of God, a fire fiercer and greater than the fire of hell, with the exception of those who have sought shelter beneath the shade of the tree of My love. For they in very truth are the blissful…”

 

[SteveVH]

Steve,
. While it was the duty of the Pharisees to direct people to the promised Messiah, they were so busy keeping the letter of the law that they had lost the spirit. Yes? Thus, they were shut out when the Lord of the Vineyard came.

Agreed.

As to Infallibility, the Institution of the Universal House of Justice is guaranteed by Baha’u’llah to be freed from error, protected from human deficiencies, for it is the Will of God as expressed by the Pen which He Himself hath fashioned.

This authority was given to the Catholic Church by Christ, who also promised that the gates of hell would never prevail against it. He also promised to stay with his Church until the end of time. He never mentioned anything about his Church ending with the coming of some new dispensation. He promised the Holy Spirit which was accomplished at Pentecost, and he promised to come again. He also warned us of false prophets who would claim to be the Messiah. Very few religious leaders have ever made this claim, most of them being small sects or even cults. Baha’u’llah is one of the few that has gone this far. As I have said before, the fact that he is dead in the ground, among many other factors, is evidence that he is not the return of Christ, who can never die again.

That there are always deniers, as Nimrod denied Abraham, and Pharaoh denied Moses, and the Pharisees denied Christ, does not mean that Abraham, Moses, and Jesus were not Who They claimed to be, nor that Their sovereignty was not true.

But daler, just because someone is denied does not then make them a true prophet. Some very well should be denied. What matters is if Truth is being denied.

 

[SteveVH]

Rinnie,
. You do have a point. The Bab has addressed this:

. “By the righteousness of Him Who is the Absolute Truth, were the veil to be lifted, thou wouldst witness on this earthly plane all men sorely afflicted with the fire of the wrath of God, a fire fiercer and greater than the fire of hell, with the exception of those who have sought shelter beneath the shade of the tree of My love. For they in very truth are the blissful…”

Look closely at the words of Scripture:

Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” (Revelation 21:1-4)

It is obvious to anyone who turns on the news in the morning that this has not yet been accomplished. Not even close. When Christ truly comes, it will be accomplished and all of creation will be changed in a very real, not metaphorical, way. We only have to look around us to know that Satan still prowls the world seeking whom he may devour. The battle has ended in eternity, but is still present in time. Therefore we still wait in joyful hope for the coming of the Lord.

 

[eddie_too]

how strange is it that none of the manifestations prior to bahaullah even knew they were manifestations, in the sense that bahaullah defines the word?

why, according to the bahaullah, did Jesus lie to His followers?

 

[Nick44]

how strange is it that none of the manifestations prior to bahaullah even knew they were manifestations, in the sense that bahaullah defines the word?

why, according to the bahaullah, did Jesus lie to His followers?

Baha’u’llah has come to unseal the spiritual realities of the one religion of God.

From Baha’u’llah and the New Era:

"Christ spoke much in parables about a great Day of Judgment when “the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father … and … shall reward every man according to his works” (Matt. 16:27). He compares this Day to the time of harvest, when the tares are burned and the wheat gathered into barns:

… so shall it be in the end of this world [consummation of the age]. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. – Matthew 13:40-43
The phrase “end of the world” used in the Authorized Version of the Bible in this and similar passages has led many to suppose that when the Day of Judgment comes, the earth will suddenly be destroyed, but this is evidently a mistake. The true translation of the phrase appears to be “the consummation or end of the age.”

Christ teaches that the Kingdom of the Father is to be established on earth, as well as in heaven. He teaches us to pray: “Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” In the parable of the Vineyard, when the Father, the Lord of the Vineyard, comes to destroy the wicked husbandmen, He does not destroy the vineyard (the world) also, but lets it out to other husbandmen, who will render Him the fruits in their season. The earth is not to be destroyed, but to be renewed and regenerated. Christ speaks of that day on another occasion as “the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory.”

St. Peter speaks of it as “the times of refreshing,” “the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.” The Day of Judgment of which Christ speaks is evidently identical with the coming of the Lord of Hosts, the Father, which was prophesied by Isaiah and the other Old Testament prophets; a time of terrible punishment for the wicked, but a time in which justice shall be established and righteousness rule, on earth as in heaven.

In the Baha’i interpretation, the coming of each Manifestation of God is a Day of Judgment, but the coming of the supreme Manifestation of Baha’u’llah is the great Day of Judgment for the world cycle in which we are living. The trumpet blast of which Christ and Muhammad and many other prophets speak is the call of the Manifestation, which is sounded for all who are in heaven and on earth – the embodied and the disembodied.

The meeting with God, through His Manifestation, is, for those who desire to meet Him, the gateway to the Paradise of knowing and loving Him, and living in love with all His creatures. Those, on the other hand, who prefer their own way to God’s way, as revealed by the Manifestation, thereby consign themselves to the hell of selfishness, error and enmity."

 

[eddie_too]

now we are getting somewhere.

as nick44 posted, “The meeting with God, through His Manifestation, is, for those who desire to meet Him, the gateway to the Paradise of knowing and loving Him, and living in love with all His creatures. Those, on the other hand, who prefer their own way to God’s way, as revealed by the Manifestation, thereby consign themselves to the hell of selfishness, error and enmity.”

believe what bahaullah taught or go to hell.

 

[Nick44]

now we are getting somewhere.

as nick44 posted, “The meeting with God, through His Manifestation, is, for those who desire to meet Him, the gateway to the Paradise of knowing and loving Him, and living in love with all His creatures. Those, on the other hand, who prefer their own way to God’s way, as revealed by the Manifestation, thereby consign themselves to the hell of selfishness, error and enmity.”

believe what bahaullah taught or go to hell.

No, eddie, there is no exclusive salvation for Baha’is. The Baha’i Encyclopedia has an informative article on the subject:

jack-mclean.com/articles/concept-salvation/