Baha'i V

[Servant19]

Like I said Billy Graham is just one of many (did I already say many?) - one of many who expect the Christ to Return soon.

There is nothing wrong in claiming that your religious leader is similar to the leaders of other religions. But you should really not claim that he is One expected by All, especially when he has not influenced that many of the world’s population. It just keeps getting old when you compare him to Jesus - who has literally influenced billions of people (including me who is not even a Christian).

The other point as I said before is that Bahais who keep repeating that Bahaullah is the Returned One are setting themselves up for a major disappointment and maybe even a disintegration of their group, when the Real One does return and that is likely to happen soon in the form of the Christ.

Yes of course, you said many
Is any of that many someone you respect and admire as much as you respect and admire Bahaullah?

I’m not trying to trap you dear friend, I am simply curious as to where your thinking is sourced from

Also, Baha’is don’t say anything about Baha’u’llah, it is the Bab primarily, who made these claims about Baha’u’llah, that’s a big difference don’t you think?

 

[daler]

Like I said Billy Graham is just one of many (did I already say many?) - one of many who expect the Christ to Return soon.

There is nothing wrong in claiming that your religious leader is similar to the leaders of other religions. But you should really not claim that he is One expected by All, especially when he has not influenced that many of the world’s population. It just keeps getting old when you compare him to Jesus - who has literally influenced billions of people (including me who is not even a Christian).

The other point as I said before is that Bahais who keep repeating that Bahaullah is the Returned One are setting themselves up for a major disappointment and maybe even a disintegration of their group, when the Real One does return and that is likely to happen soon in the form of the Christ.

My friend,
. Can you find a single piece of writing of Mr Graham which you can truthfully compare to the utterances of either the Bab or Baha’u’llah? That such souls continue to say “He is coming” is an echo of past ages when the Jews, to this day, still await the Messiah.

. Jesus said that “I will come as a Thief in the Night”, that is, He will be here and gone before He is acknowledged. And who are the last to acknowledge in every single age of the appearance of an Avatar? The religious divines, who universally oppose the True One Whose Light exposes their false doctrines, interpretations, and selfish motives, including lust for leadership.

. That the Promised One is born in obscurity has always been the case, a mere child in a hostile world, yet Whose influence turns conventional wisdom and petrified belief systems and their Institutions on their head, threatening their invalid claims, dethroning their corrupt exponents, which crumble and fall before Him, as has been witnessed in the past 150 years among all strata of society to such an extent as has never before been witnessed in all of recorded history, so rapid their downfall as “the stars shall fall from heaven” refers precisely to “them”.

. Who else but the Supreme Manifestation of God, or the awaited Avatar, would be accompanied by such tumult where no trace of the world known to men before their coming scarcely remains. A look around is sufficient to see that we are indeed living in a new age, of a new heaven and a new earth the signs are self-evident, all of which are the direct or indirect effect of such and outpouring of the power of His Might to accomplish whatsoever He willeth.

.

 

[Red_Sox_1]

Open minded Hindu,

Bahaullah clearly claimed to be the promised One of all Hinduism. There is nothing to be disappointed about my friend. This is the day fulfillment and happiness.

 

[openmind77]

Open minded Hindu,

Bahaullah clearly claimed to be the promised One of all Hinduism. There is nothing to be disappointed about my friend. This is the day fulfillment and happiness.

Servant, Daler, RedSox(!?),

Boy, you guys sure do write a lot of words and talk in unison too!

I did not say I am disappointed or that you should be disappointed either, but when the **real **Promised One for everyone does return (which like I said will happen soon in the form of the Return of the Christ), all Bahais will be quite devastated, if you base your religion on such a belief.

It is (in my opinion) impossible for Bahaullah to be the Promised One. He got several things wrong, including the fact of reincarnation (hopefully my Christian friends do not fall all over me here). These are pretty trivial truths that a real Avatar will not get wrong (Jesus did not get anything wrong - that knowledge has just been suppressed).

But lets not argue about reincarnation here (there are other threads for that), but the fact is that in this age of instant communication, a real Avatar will have impact on hundreds of millions of people in a short while - this just has not happened with Bahaullah.

 

[Red_Sox_1]

Dear Open Minded Hindu,

I am confident Bahaullah was never wrong. In fact, He is above both right and wrong.

If you have a moment, and I am sure you are open minded, and if this doesn’t violate site rules, I will demonstrate how Bahaullah confirmed reincarnation and established He is the Sender of Krishna and other Hindu Avatars.

 

[arthra]

Openmind:

Jesus got it “right” I agree…so did Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

and yep …we don’t believe in reincarnation… you got that right!

By the way who were you in your last incarnation?

As to impact… I think we’ve been living in a “new heaven” and “new earth” for the last few hundred years or so… Consider how much more we think in world terms today than our ancestors did…uhhh former incarnations for you “openmind”.

So this is the challenge for our planet today and that’s part of the message of Baha’u’llah for today… The spirit of this age is world oriented… also we’re much more inclined today to abandon racial sexual and religious prejudices. At least more of us than a few hundred years ago and that’s another part of the teachings of Baha’u’llah.

 

[openmind77]

Openmind:

Jesus got it “right” I agree…so did Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

and yep …we don’t believe in reincarnation… you got that right!

By the way who were you in your last incarnation?

As to impact… I think we’ve been living in a “new heaven” and “new earth” for the last few hundred years or so… Consider how much more we think in world terms today than our ancestors did…uhhh former incarnations for you “openmind”.

So this is the challenge for our planet today and that’s part of the message of Baha’u’llah for today… The spirit of this age is world oriented… also we’re much more inclined today to abandon racial sexual and religious prejudices. At least more of us than a few hundred years ago and that’s another part of the teachings of Baha’u’llah.

OMG, there is one more of you!

It is not just the case of not knowing the truth about reincarnation, Bahaullah also did not understand the Trinitarian nature of God (though he does a good job trying to gloss over it).

A real Avatar would know, without having to read the NT or trying to equivocate, the distinct nature of the three persons even while being one single God…

 

[tonyfish58]

OMG, there is one more of you!

It is not just the case of not knowing the truth about reincarnation, Bahaullah also did not understand the Trinitarian nature of God (though he does a good job trying to gloss over it).

A real Avatar would know, without having to read the NT or trying to equivocate, the distinct nature of the three persons even while being one single God…

Yes there are few of us but we are many

It could be that Baha,'u’llah go it all right. It could be we got it all wrong.

The power of the word of God is far beyond us, we get it wrong so often!

It has happened and no one can stop its progress, we can jump on the train or stay on the platform.

God bless Regards Tony

 

[Red_Sox_1]

Hmmmm… Our Catholic and Hindu friends avoid my comments…

Maybe I wasn’t clear : Bahaullah sent His Son Jesus Christ and the Avatars to mankind, which was anticipated by “the Primal Point of Creation” known as the Bab.

 

[openmind77]

Hmmmm… Our Catholic and Hindu friends avoid my comments…

Maybe I wasn’t clear : Bahaullah sent His Son Jesus Christ and the Avatars to mankind, which was anticipated by “the Primal Point of Creation” known as the Bab.

Yes, your previous post was not that clear. This is more clear, but seems even wilder than the other claims.

Now you are saying that Bahaullah is not another incarnation of the Son like Jesus was, but he is the one who **sent **incarnations like Jesus, in other words Bahaullah is the Father? This is very interesting, I have never heard anyone say that the Father can incarnate as a human being, in this case as Bahaullah! - is this standard Bahai belief?

And what on earth is ‘the Primal Point of Creation’? (BTW it sounds weird to refer to someone as ‘**the **Bab’, wouldn’t Mr. Bab be better?)

 

[daler]

OMG, there is one more of you!

It is not just the case of not knowing the truth about reincarnation, Bahaullah also did not understand the Trinitarian nature of God (though he does a good job trying to gloss over it).

A real Avatar would know, without having to read the NT or trying to equivocate, the distinct nature of the three persons even while being one single God…

Dear Openminded friend (What a great handle, by the way!
.
. When the very “Source” of all the Avatars, Prophets, or Manifestations of God speaks to mankind, in all our considerable variations, traditions, beliefs, and perspectives, we can assume that His knowledge exceeds our knowledge, and His understanding surpasses our own. He has no need to read anything, nor to contemplate the most abstruse philosophies.

. As to “reincarnation”:

. “That which hath been in existence had existed before, but not in the form thou seest today. The world of existence came into being through the heat generated from the interaction between the active force and that which is its recipient. These two are the same, yet they are different. Thus doth the Great Announcement inform thee about this glorious structure. Such as communicate the generating influence and such as receive its impact are indeed created through the irresistible Word of God which is the Cause of the entire creation, while all else besides His Word are but the creatures and the effects thereof. Verily thy Lord is the Expounder, the All-Wise.”

. As to the knowledge of men:

. “Thou knowest full well that We perused not the books which men possess and We acquired not the learning current amongst them, and yet whenever We desire to quote the sayings of the learned and of the wise, presently there will appear before the face of thy Lord in the form of a tablet all that which hath appeared in the world and is revealed in the Holy Books and Scriptures. Thus do We set down in writing that which the eye perceiveth. Verily His knowledge encompasseth the earth and the heavens.”

. If I may suggest to you a reading of a few pages, for which I would greatly appreciate your comments, here is a link to the Tablet of Hikmat (Wisdom), which addresses philosophy:

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/TB/tb-10.html

.

 

[daler]

Yes, your previous post was not that clear. This is more clear, but seems even wilder than the other claims.

Now you are saying that Bahaullah is not another incarnation of the Son like Jesus was, but he is the one who **sent **incarnations like Jesus, in other words Bahaullah is the Father? This is very interesting, I have never heard anyone say that the Father can incarnate as a human being, in this case as Bahaullah! - is this standard Bahai belief?

And what on earth is ‘the Primal Point of Creation’? (BTW it sounds weird to refer to someone as ‘**the **Bab’, wouldn’t Mr. Bab be better?)

Openmind,

. God does not “incarnate” Himself into a created being or form. He is above all that can be attributed to Him. That His “Image” is reflected in the Station of the “Son” does not withhold Him from reflecting His Image in the Station of the Father. All of these terms, such as Son, Father, Friend, Intercolator, Apostle, etc are for our benefit, that we may grasp something of Him Who is the Unknowable, the Unseen.

. “Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.” He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person.”

. As to the Bab (Gate)

. "“I am the Primal Point from which have been generated all created things… I am the Countenance of God Whose splendor can never be obscured, the light of God whose radiance can never fade… All the keys of heaven God hath chosen to place on My right hand, and all the keys of hell on My left… I am one of the sustaining pillars of the Primal Word of God. Whosoever hath recognized Me, hath known all that is true and right, and hath attained all that is good and seemly… The substance wherewith God hath created Me is not the clay out of which others have been formed. He hath conferred upon Me that which the worldly-wise can never comprehend, nor the faithful discover.”

.

 

[openmind77]

Dear Openminded friend (What a great handle, by the way!
.
. When the very “Source” of all the Avatars, Prophets, or Manifestations of God speaks to mankind, in all our considerable variations, traditions, beliefs, and perspectives, we can assume that His knowledge exceeds our knowledge, and His understanding surpasses our own. He has no need to read anything, nor to contemplate the most abstruse philosophies.

. As to “reincarnation”:

. “That which hath been in existence had existed before, but not in the form thou seest today. The world of existence came into being through the heat generated from the interaction between the active force and that which is its recipient. These two are the same, yet they are different. Thus doth the Great Announcement inform thee about this glorious structure. Such as communicate the generating influence and such as receive its impact are indeed created through the irresistible Word of God which is the Cause of the entire creation, while all else besides His Word are but the creatures and the effects thereof. Verily thy Lord is the Expounder, the All-Wise.”

. As to the knowledge of men:

. “Thou knowest full well that We perused not the books which men possess and We acquired not the learning current amongst them, and yet whenever We desire to quote the sayings of the learned and of the wise, presently there will appear before the face of thy Lord in the form of a tablet all that which hath appeared in the world and is revealed in the Holy Books and Scriptures. Thus do We set down in writing that which the eye perceiveth. Verily His knowledge encompasseth the earth and the heavens.”

. If I may suggest to you a reading of a few pages, for which I would greatly appreciate your comments, here is a link to the Tablet of Hikmat (Wisdom), which addresses philosophy:

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/TB/tb-10.html

.

Openmind,

. God does not “incarnate” Himself into a created being or form. He is above all that can be attributed to Him. That His “Image” is reflected in the Station of the “Son” does not withhold Him from reflecting His Image in the Station of the Father. All of these terms, such as Son, Father, Friend, Intercolator, Apostle, etc are for our benefit, that we may grasp something of Him Who is the Unknowable, the Unseen.

. “Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.” He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person.”

. As to the Bab (Gate)

. "“I am the Primal Point from which have been generated all created things… I am the Countenance of God Whose splendor can never be obscured, the light of God whose radiance can never fade… All the keys of heaven God hath chosen to place on My right hand, and all the keys of hell on My left… I am one of the sustaining pillars of the Primal Word of God. Whosoever hath recognized Me, hath known all that is true and right, and hath attained all that is good and seemly… The substance wherewith God hath created Me is not the clay out of which others have been formed. He hath conferred upon Me that which the worldly-wise can never comprehend, nor the faithful discover.”

.

Yup, now everything is crystal clear.

 

[daler]

Yup, now everything is crystal clear.

Openmind,
. As to the “Father”, Baha’u’llah directly speaks to us from that exalted Station in the Lawh-i-Aqdas, or Most Holy Tablet (to the Christians)

. “The river Jordan is joined to the Most Great Ocean, and the Son, in the holy vale, crieth out: ‘Here am I, here am I O Lord, my God!’, whilst Sinai circleth round the House, and the Burning Bush calleth aloud: ‘He Who is the Desired One is come in His transcendent majesty.’ Say, Lo! The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled! This is the Word which the Son concealed, when to those around Him He said: ‘Ye cannot bear it now.’ And when the appointed time was fulfilled and the Hour had struck, the Word shone forth above the horizon of the Will of God. Beware, O followers of the Son, that ye cast it not behind your backs. Take ye fast hold of it. Better is this for you than all that ye possess. Verily He is nigh unto them that do good. The Hour which We had concealed from the knowledge of the peoples of the earth and of the favoured angels hath come to pass. Say, verily, He hath testified of Me, and I do testify of Him. Indeed, He hath purposed no one other than Me. Unto this beareth witness every fair-minded and understanding soul.”

. The entire Tablet is about 5 or 6 pages and is one of the most profound of which I have read. If you are interested in reading it, here is the link.

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/TB/tb-3.html

PS Please forgive me if I am handing you too many links… and please let me know, for I mean not to offend you in doing so, but only wish to clarify that which is pertinent to your questions or comments.

Thank you,

Daler

.

.

 

[Red_Sox_1]

Dear Hindu, and of course other Catholic friends here,

I am happy it is clearer now. Please feel free to ask other questions.

As for “the Bab”, He is better known as “His Holiness The Most Exalted Lord” and “The Primal Point” by the Bahai Friends in the Islamic world. And Mohammad is referred to as “the Seal of the Messengers [of God]” in Baha’u’llah’s writings , the Last Messenger of God sent in “the Cycle of Prophecy [of the Coming of Greatest Announcement and the Great Resurrection]”.

 

[Servant19]

…the real Christ will be appearing pretty soon (maybe in a couple of years).

I sometimes wonder how many times this has been stated in the past 2000 years?

…and yet the world waits…(except for some whom the Lord has chosen)

 

[daler]

I sometimes wonder how many times this has been stated in the past 2000 years?

…and yet the world waits…(except for some whom the Lord has chosen)

. In the world of nuclear physics, Fusion is coming and it always will be.

. In the world of evangelism, Jesus is coming and He always will be…

 

[tonyfish58]

I sometimes wonder how many times this has been stated in the past 2000 years?

…and yet the world waits…(except for some whom the Lord has chosen)

I would have to say there are a lot in the World that are not waiting, there are a lot in the world that are waiting and there are a few that think it has happened. Those few all think that their path is correct!

As to if any are chosen…I always live by the motto that no one knows what their end will be and thank God that any Love I have been given is a Bounty I should never squander!

Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

I would have to say there are a lot in the World that are not waiting, there are a lot in the world that are waiting and there are a few that think it has happened. Those few all think that their path is correct!

As to if any are chosen…I always live by the motto that no one knows what their end will be and thank God that any Love I have been given is a Bounty I should never squander!

Regards Tony

I would render a loud Ya Baha’ul-Abha to that one Tony

 

[daler]

I would render a loud Ya Baha’ul-Abha to that one Tony

As the song from the 60’s said:

“I second that emotion”…

Ya Baha’ul’Abha!