Baha'i V

[daler]

I sometimes wonder …

Dearest friends,
. Monday evening Nov 11th through Nov 12th commemorates the anniversary of the birth of Baha’u’llah. Please consider viewing these short clips with us, Baha’is and Non-Baha’i friends and share the spirit of our Faith on this Holy Day. Kind of like our Christmas, in a way. Thank you so very much for all the love and friendship on CAF and this thread.
May God bless each and everyone of the blessed souls who share on the Baha’i thread

Also 3 1/2 minutes of a very beautiful Persian song.

youtube.com/watch?v=U-YBEA61Pt8

Birth of Baha’u’llah and various precious photos of items 4 minutes 44 sec

youtube.com/watch?v=eTntvU8iPgM

This is a short film of the House of Baha’u’llah. It is only 2 minutes long.

youtube.com/watch?v=hU2mIayfgNM

.

 

[Sen_McGlinn]

Dearest friends,
. Monday evening Nov 11th through Nov 12th commemorates the anniversary of the birth of Baha’u’llah. Please consider viewing these short clips with us, Baha’is and Non-Baha’i friends and share the spirit of our Faith on this Holy Day. Kind of like our Christmas, in a way. Thank you so very much for all the love and friendship on CAF and this thread.
May God bless each and everyone of the blessed souls who share on the Baha’i thread

Also 3 1/2 minutes of a very beautiful Persian song.

youtube.com/watch?v=U-YBEA61Pt8

Birth of Baha’u’llah and various precious photos of items 4 minutes 44 sec

youtube.com/watch?v=eTntvU8iPgM

This is a short film of the House of Baha’u’llah. It is only 2 minutes long.

youtube.com/watch?v=hU2mIayfgNM

.

I had never seen the photographs in that last video before. The architecture of the
Qajar period (for the nobility and merchants at least) has an unpretentious grace and practicality that really appeals to me. Notice the trapdoors going down to cellars and rooms below. In the summer those would be the most liveable spaces. Which leads me to the reflection: when spirituality withers, so does good taste.

 

[tonyfish58]

And another song for the Birthday Celebrations!

O Baha’u’llah - 6.58 minutes - With great photos

youtu.be/bUpPZ5sZfPg

Regards Tony

 

[openmind77]

I sometimes wonder how many times this has been stated in the past 2000 years?

…and yet the world waits…(except for some whom the Lord has chosen)

The same can be said about people claiming to be the Promised One Returned - I wonder how many people have claimed that in the last 2000 years. Another Iranian (although I think he was born in India) who claimed that was Meher Baba. His followers don’t have their own religion, but he claimed to be ‘the Avatar of the Age’. Actually, in terms of spiritual knowledge, he got more things right than Bahaullah. Ahmadis (from Pakistan/India) have similar claims.

Actually I am not waiting for anything, I live my life as always. it is OK if the event does not happen in my lifetime, but I do expect it to happen soon.

However, when you base your religion on the belief that your leader in the **One **and not that many people of the world agree, you are living in a dreamworld (which can be quite pleasant), but the dreams will be shattered and a rude awakening will occur, when the real Promised One appears. In any case, pleasant dreams!

 

[Red_Sox_1]

The same can be said about people claiming to be the Promised One Returned - I wonder how many people have claimed that in the last 2000 years. Another Iranian (although I think he was born in India) who claimed that was Meher Baba. His followers don’t have their own religion, but he claimed to be ‘the Avatar of the Age’. Actually, in terms of spiritual knowledge, he got more things right than Bahaullah. Ahmadis (from Pakistan/India) have similar claims.

In fairness you may be right that Bahaullah is a liar, for that matter Moses Abraham and Jesus may all be wrong… Anything is really possible the imagination has even come up with The Spaghetti Monster and Pink Flying Elephant.

But the claim of Bahaullah really can’t be compared to those claimants you named like Joseph Smith, Mehr Baba, and Gholam Ahmad. We can go through it if you like. Two primary reasons are the backdrop of the Babi movement and the extent of Baha’u’llah’s proclamation that surpasses the limitations of religion, philosophy, Gnosticism, and mysticism.

---

Only through Atheism does the Nightingale of Paradise warble His Melody .

 

[openmind77]

In fairness you may be right that Bahaullah is a liar, for that matter Moses Abraham and Jesus may all be wrong… Anything is really possible the imagination has even come up with The Spaghetti Monster and Pink Flying Elephant.

But the claim of Bahaullah really can’t be compared to those claimants you named like Joseph Smith, Mehr Baba, and Gholam Ahmad. We can go through it if you like. Two primary reasons are the backdrop of the Babi movement and the extent of Baha’u’llah’s proclamation that surpasses the limitations of religion, philosophy, Gnosticism, and mysticism.

---

Only through Atheism does the Nightingale of Paradise warble His Melody .

Please Mr RedSox, I would not dream of calling Bahaullah a liar or anything even close. I am perfectly certain that he was a great, wise and knowledge man just like Meher Baba. I am merely saying that he was mistaken (as was Meher Baba) in believing himself the Promised One for everyone.

I do compare Bahaullah to both Meher Baba and Ghulam Ahmad - all three believed they were the Promised Avatar and all three have dedicated followers. Meher Baba may not have as many followers as the other two, but from his writings, he was more knowledgeable about spiritual matters than them.

 

[Red_Sox_1]

I do compare Bahaullah to both Meher Baba and Ghulam Ahmad - all three believed they were the Promised Avatar and all three have dedicated followers. Meher Baba may not have as many followers as the other two, but from his writings, he was more knowledgeable about spiritual matters than them.

I’ll jus ignore that first sentence because I don’t think Baha’u’llah’s claim is limited by avatarship and Godhood.

As for the second part, anyone can say anything about spirituality – I don’t personally find “spiritual explanations” all that compelling anyway. I don’t base my belief in Bahaullah on spiritual matters expounded by Him. His explanations help me better understand him.

And by the way who made you the ultimate judge of what is and what is not a profound spiritual statement?

 

[openmind77]

I’ll jus ignore that first sentence because I don’t think Baha’u’llah’s claim is limited by avatarship and Godhood.

As for the second part, anyone can say anything about spirituality – I don’t personally find “spiritual explanations” all that compelling anyway. I don’t base my belief in Bahaullah on spiritual matters expounded by Him. His explanations help me better understand him.

And by the way who made you the ultimate judge of what is and what is not a profound spiritual statement?

I don’t think any human being is the ultimate judge in spiritual matters. But everyone has the right to judge them for himself.

There is nothing wrong in being a devoted follower of Bahaullah or encouraging others to do the same, but it is best to give up this fantasy that he is the Promised One for all mankind.

If he is indeed the One for all mankind, just propagating his teachings (without claiming that is he is such) will ultimately lead to this recognition by hundreds of millions.

If he is not the One, he still has some excellent profound teachings which you can follow - be happy with that.

 

[Red_Sox_1]

I don’t think any human being is the ultimate judge in spiritual matters. But everyone has the right to judge them for himself.

There is nothing wrong in being a devoted follower of Bahaullah or encouraging others to do the same, but it is best to give up this fantasy that he is the Promised One for all mankind.

If he is indeed the One for all mankind, just propagating his teachings (without claiming that is he is such) will ultimately lead to this recognition by hundreds of millions.

If he is not the One, he still has some excellent profound teachings which you can follow - be happy with that.

Great… this makes sense to me.

 

[tonyfish58]

I don’t think any human being is the ultimate judge in spiritual matters. But everyone has the right to judge them for himself.

There is nothing wrong in being a devoted follower of Bahaullah or encouraging others to do the same, but it is best to give up this fantasy that he is the Promised One for all mankind.

If he is indeed the One for all mankind, just propagating his teachings (without claiming that is he is such) will ultimately lead to this recognition by hundreds of millions.

If he is not the One, he still has some excellent profound teachings which you can follow - be happy with that.

This statement “If he is indeed the One for all mankind, just propagating his teachings will ultimately lead to this recognition by hundreds of millions”. rings very true!

Deeds not words has always been the ultimate guidance from the Prophets.

But man needs words? This is most likely because, well lets face it we are no saints, it can take some time before we can live the life that we are called to live.

The example of this is Religion as it is seen today. So many people have turned away from God because of the Hypocrisy shown by people professing Faith!

What I can say though is that Baha’ullah has called upon us to become that new race of Men, the people known by their deeds and not their words, we try to achieve this Little by Little day by Day! This will happen with our help or without it

Regards Tony

 

[NextElement]

What leads Baha’is to believe that Bahaullah was a prophet? Did he work miracles? How can you know he wasn’t “making it up”?

 

[PrinceofEgypt]

Yes, NextElement, we do have prophecies and miracles relating to the Bab and Baha’u’llah. However, we do not dwell upon these as evidence of Faith. This is because miracles can be denied and when you tell someone of a miracle they simply can say it never happened. I believe in Baha’u’llah because I have studied His revelation. What you say applies to any religion. Why did you decide to be a Christian and how did you know Christianity was not just “made up”? (that’s a rhetorical question)

 

[PrinceofEgypt]

but from his writings, he was more knowledgeable about spiritual matters than them.

This is simply a matter of personal opinion. Baha’u’llah has thousands of untranslated tablets and most works of the Bab were destroyed.

 

[NoWings]

This is simply a matter of personal opinion. Baha’u’llah has thousands of untranslated tablets and most works of the Bab were destroyed.

Thousands you say? Why are there “thousands” of untranslated tablets just laying around? Why aren’t they already translated? What’s stopping the Baha’i administration from going ahead and translating them? I’m not sure I’d join a faith if just 1/100 of the sacred writings were available in my language.

 

[PrinceofEgypt]

Thousands you say? Why are there “thousands” of untranslated tablets just laying around? Why aren’t they already translated? What’s stopping the Baha’i administration from going ahead and translating them? I’m not sure I’d join a faith if just 1/100 of the sacred writings were available in my language.

To translate thousands upon thousands of tablets in such a short time period is just an impossibility. Scripture has been published and translated recently and I am assured every effort is made to increase the availability of translated Tablets every year. Nonetheless, hundreds of tablets of Baha’u’llah have been translated. Writings are available in many languages. Some of the most major works of Baha’u’llah have been translated to English, but it is difficult to imagine the Ocean of His Revelation and the remaining spiritual wisdom still unpublished. It’s a precious gift to be an English speaker because so much scholarship and so many books on the Baha’i Faith are written in English. We are also encouraged to learn languages in pursuit of God. There are also a great number of provisional translations available freely on Baha’i Library. Some publications are also in French or Russian but not English such as the Bayan. The BIC also has practical concerns like maintaining the Baha’i community, establishing communities, and dealing with the persecution in the Muslim countries of Iran, Iraq, and Egypt.

If you have read every official English writing of Baha’u’llah then you can turn to the Selections from the Báb’s Tablets. If you have read this also, then read the books of Shoghi Effendi and Abdu’l-Baha Abbas. If you have read those then try some books of people like the Hands of the Cause of God. If you’ve read these then read all the available provisional translations. If you read those then learn French to read writings of the Báb. If you have learned French then learn Arabic or Persian to read the original writings.

May God bless you.

 

[arthra]

“what leads Baha’is to accept Baha’u’llah?”

I think for me it was studying the life of Baha’u’llah and the Bab that convinced me that it was for real…

that is

(1) how They (Baha’u’llah and the Bab) lived their lives in a repressive environment dealing with the political and ecclesiastical systems around Them…

and

(2) also understanding how the teachings of Baha’u’llah relate to the challenges in modern life…

Someone asked about the extent of the Baha’i Writings untranslated…of course they were mostly in Farsi and Arabic and directed to people who could read them but the following may give you an idea of the situation:

Bahá’u’lláh revealed over 15,000 tablets. Some are long (several hundred pages) but most are a page or two, written to a specific individual to answer a question or convey encouragement. Shoghi Effendi translated about a thousand pages into English in His lifetime. Gleanings contains 166 extracts, Prayers and Meditations 184, but some tablets provided more than one extract, so the total number of tablets that the Guardian used was less than the sum of the extracts in the two books (350). Since the Guardian did not assemble a list of his sources, it has been necessary to search for the original tablets he used, and they have not all been identified yet. More recently, the Universal House of Justice has overseen production of Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh Revealed after the Kitáb-i-Aqdas and The Kitáb-i-Aqdas: The Most Holy Book, rendering into English 500 more pages of revelation. It appears that less than 500 of the 15,000 tablets — a relatively small percentage of the total revelation —

bahai-library.com/number_tablets_bahaullah

The above was written over ten years ago…

 

[PrinceofEgypt]

After literally hundreds of pages of this, I’ve realized this is a massive waste of time. The debate train is incoherent. To non-Baha’is and non-Catholics this looks ridiculous. We’ve literally been arguing about who has the winning God. No one that I have seen has magically converted or will break on what they’re opinion is. We’re grasping at straws here. Following the arguments is incoherent. Who do you believe? I am of the opinion convincing arguments can be made for any religion by an eloquent, intelligent, well-informed person. Look at Aquinas, RamBam, Calvin, Abu’l-Fadl, and Tustari. If this is the case then how do we ever know who has the true religion? Most of us can’t devote out lives to religion and will go with the religion we were born into or were heavily exposed to at one point. The people on here are insistent that Catholicism is right. I have met several orthodox Christisns who believe only the orthodox have the true faith. I know Protestants who are adamant both churches are wrong. Then atheists, Jews, Shi’a Muslims, Sunni Muslims and the Druze all know they are right. It is all relative. Another issue is that we cannot study others religions for the sake of disproving them. We should make earnest attempts to learn about other’s beliefs and then decide for ourselves. We cannot expect people to do this with our bekiefs while not doing the same thing for others. I see this commonly in Christianity and Islam: “Why are you just assuming a religion is wrong.” “Because I know my religion is correct.”

Thank you for listening.

 

[tonyfish58]

I don’t think any human being is the ultimate judge in spiritual matters. But everyone has the right to judge them for himself.

There is nothing wrong in being a devoted follower of Bahaullah or encouraging others to do the same, but it is best to give up this fantasy that he is the Promised One for all mankind.

If he is indeed the One for all mankind, just propagating his teachings (without claiming that is he is such) will ultimately lead to this recognition by hundreds of millions.

If he is not the One, he still has some excellent profound teachings which you can follow - be happy with that.

openmind77 - This may be worthy of thought!

Day of Judgment – Revelation of Baha’u’llah

It might be worth considering that mankind is as a whole in the Day of Judgment promised by all past scriptures, which we know will not last a very long time. This is a very bountiful time, a Gift from God to all that live at this time.

In this time of Judgment, something that will grow to be a mighty force is always seen as being insignificant with no power! Look what became of the seed of Christ, look what became of the Seed of Muhammad!

We can liken the “Word of God” as given by Baha’u’llah as the “Seed”. When someone looks at the Seed they may think it as very insignificant, it is only those that look way into the DNA of the Seed that know how great that Seed will become!

Consider how great this Seed of Baha’u’llah will be! After being planted by the Revelation of the Bab, it has not long been watered with the blood of 10’s of thousands of Martyrs which started its growth, it is now getting trickle fed as it starts its emergence from the ground with people attracted to that Seed. This seed will grow into the “Mightiest Tree” that will live for at least 500,000 years. It will over this time sprout many great branches that will be supported by the “Mighty Trunk” of Baha’u’llahs Revelation. The first Branch of this tree will not appear for at least 1000 years!

The end of Judgment day will see the end of the trickle feed and it will then be nourished by the Masses, as you have said, this may not be far off!

This truly is the time to study the Word of God to become one with the DNA of that tree.

IMHO – It may be that if one does not take that chance, then one may become the elements surrounding the tree, able in some way to feed the growth of the tree but not able to be part of the tree!

Believer and Non believer all partake of the Bounty of God and are sheltered under His Mighty Trees, to what measure we partake of this bounty and shelter is always left up to us!

Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

After literally hundreds of pages of this, I’ve realized this is a massive waste of time. The debate train is incoherent. To non-Baha’is and non-Catholics this looks ridiculous. We’ve literally been arguing about who has the winning God. No one that I have seen has magically converted or will break on what they’re opinion is. We’re grasping at straws here. Following the arguments is incoherent. Who do you believe? I am of the opinion convincing arguments can be made for any religion by an eloquent, intelligent, well-informed person. Look at Aquinas, RamBam, Calvin, Abu’l-Fadl, and Tustari. If this is the case then how do we ever know who has the true religion? Most of us can’t devote out lives to religion and will go with the religion we were born into or were heavily exposed to at one point. The people on here are insistent that Catholicism is right. I have met several orthodox Christisns who believe only the orthodox have the true faith. I know Protestants who are adamant both churches are wrong. Then atheists, Jews, Shi’a Muslims, Sunni Muslims and the Druze all know they are right. It is all relative. Another issue is that we cannot study others religions for the sake of disproving them. We should make earnest attempts to learn about other’s beliefs and then decide for ourselves. We cannot expect people to do this with our bekiefs while not doing the same thing for others. I see this commonly in Christianity and Islam: “Why are you just assuming a religion is wrong.” “Because I know my religion is correct.”

Thank you for listening.

Then you must thank God you have not been part of this big waste of time

Yes the argument at times has been unproductive to all, or Has it? Just may be some one has learned one little thing from it all!

I know I have learned a lot about the Catholic Belief and now realise that they offer/offered a lot to the world as it is today. I know they are very strong in Faith and their Love for God/Christ. I have learned to respect our Catholic Brothers point of view.

I have posted a reply above that may spark some more views/conversation! Hope you can join in with some different insights!

Regards Tony

 

[daler]

Thousands you say? Why are there “thousands” of untranslated tablets just laying around? Why aren’t they already translated? What’s stopping the Baha’i administration from going ahead and translating them? I’m not sure I’d join a faith if just 1/100 of the sacred writings were available in my language.

NoWings,
There is an incredibly high standard applied in the translation of the Holy Writings of the Bab and Baha’u’llah which was set by Shoghi Effendi, the great-grandson of Baha’u’llah and the Guardian of the Baha’i Faith. He was educated at Oxford and was meticulous as to his application of precisely the correct form of English to express the lofty equivalent of the original Farsi or Arabic. This is no easy task, and a rough translation can impede the correct understanding of what he called the “matchless utterance” of Baha’u’llah.
If you are open to sample some of the Writings, the Hidden Words contains short distillations of the spiritual truths of all past religions. Gleanings has paragraphs or pages of various Writings, and the Kitab-i-Iqan summarizes the concept of “Progressive Revelation” which is the essential underlying truths flowing from one Revelation from God to the next throughout history.

As to anyone “joining” the Baha’i Faith, this really does not, or certainly should not, happen, whether on a whim or whatever. People become Baha’is when the “recognize” that Baha’u’llah is the Manifestation of God for this age and accept Him as such, through independent investigation of the truths which He proclaims.