Baltimore priest removed for liturgical abuse

[Joe_Kelley]

. . .
The bishop fired him but (I think I read the bishop reinstated the priest and has put him in rehab or some such). I f that is so (reinstatement) then the bishop “caved” to pressure from outsiders.

Isn’t that standard procedure for bishops - When you have a problem move him and hope that no one notices?

 

[johnstown_johnn]

The Mass wouldn’t have been invalid (only illicit), but I agree that the situation is extremely horrible. The scandal caused by this and similar situations over the past decades is seen in the fact that many people don’t think this is a big deal or that it is even wrong. They have lost both their sense of the sacred and their sense of sin, unfortunately, and it is liturgical abuses like these that have contributed in great part to this.

For me, I would walk out of that “mass” and report it to the archdiocese and even the Vatican. The grieving family has NO right to request a thing as this; no right whatsoever. Either they practise Catholicism or go onto something that accomodates their spiritual inclinations.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

Isn’t that standard procedure for bishops - When you have a problem move him and hope that no one notices?

Yes, that seems to be the prevailing reaction. But there are a few, just a few “No Nonsense Bishops” such as Burke in St. Louis. The Church is going through more attack thn anytime before and we will see a breaking apart or separation it’s happening right now. We should pray in all humility to make the right choices as they come up. All this sounds very Apocalyptic.

 

[Dauphin]

Hail Fr. Martin! He is a herald of a new and better Christianity, where Catholics and Protestants do funerals, weddings and even baptisms together on a shared and equal basis when the family requests it.

I have been to Catholic weddings where a Protestant minister is allowed to do nothing more than read an Old Testament scripture, otherwise ignored. Then, guess what? The bride may participate in the Eucharist but neither the groom, the minister or any other non-Catholic is allowed to receive. Sheer short-sighted stupidity that makes Catholicism look insensitive, bigoted and arrogant.

At Protestant churches I have witnessed a true sharing in weddings by both ministers and guest priests (those willing to co-officiate). If communion is part of the ceremony, which it usually is not in an interfaith ceremony, everyone is invited to receive.

Which way do you think Christ would prefer? He worked hard at breaking down walls and building bridges.

At protestant churches, you treat your bread and wine like the bread and wine they are. You know that there is nothing sacred in your ceremonies, and your behavior reveals it.

Sacrilege against the Sacred Body and Blood of Christ cannot possibly be according to Divine intention. We don’t allow protestants to receive Our Savior because they reject His words: “This is My Body… This is My Blood”. When you submit humbly to the teaching of the church He established, then you can partake of Communion.

Christ wanted His church to be united, but you misunderstand the way in which He wanted it. He wanted the church to be united in faith, not just in externals. Why should we pretend that protestants hold the faith of the apostles, when they believe something completely alien to the Church of Christ?

Your ceremonies are meaningless, your ecumenism is false, and your religion is without Biblical and apostolic foundation. Come back to the genuine Christian faith, and then the treasures of the Church will be open to you. Persist in heresy, and don’t expect anything of the sort.

 

[Dauphin]

In this instance she can be seen as a non-ordained layperson in the Catholic Church’s view. No different than an EM in status around the alter. This is a reaching across the aisle form of ecumenicism, to unite and not divide over apparent schisms over the past which progress should be made towards to heal.

If she rejects the true teaching of Our Lord, she should not be allowed to partake of the Body and Blood of Christ. Period.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

If she rejects the true teaching of Our Lord, she should not be allowed to partake of the Body and Blood of Christ. Period.

Fr. Martin committed a sacrilege in allowing the Protestant to receive the Eucharist. Fr. Martin is a maverick that needs to be sent to a retreat to contemplate on where he is going as a priest.

 

[Nordar]

Fr. Martin committed a sacrilege in allowing the Protestant to receive the Eucharist. Fr. Martin is a maverick that needs to be sent to a retreat to contemplate on where he is going as a priest.

That is exactly what he is doing, before you go attacking The Bishop by saying he is caving into pressure, it would be good to remember that.

The Bishop is doing the right thing, he sent him to a retreat to get councelling and I’m sure to pray and do some soul searching on his Priesthood. He is still a Priest, what is it you would have liked the Bishop do do with him?

 

[johnstown_johnn]

The bishop should restrict him from PUBLICLY saying Mass.

If the priest, after “rehab” shows no advance…he should be suspended.

 

[Nordar]

The bishop should restrict him from PUBLICLY saying Mass.

If the priest, after “rehab” shows no advance…he should be suspended.

He has.

And he has said that is exactly what he would do.

I do not know what your problem is with This Bishop, perhaps you should read what he has said. You just keep repeating what he should do, when he has already stated those are his exact intentions.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

Give it up already. We’re getting too engaged and it is developing into contentiousness. I want no part of it…just ignore ALL I said on the matter and I TAKE IT ALL BACK…EVERYTHING. I no longer have an opinion on the matter.

---

Peace

 

[catharina]

"I am sickened that they would treat our pastor this way," he said. "It doesn’t sound possible that the church would take such a petty thing and ruin a man’s career."

This quote from a parishoner shows how much this parish has been misled. Violating Canon Law is not a petty thing - especially when you’re dealing with the Mass. And this is the first time I’ve heard the priesthood referred to as a ‘career’. I’m sorry - it’s a vocation and a calling. This is not a ‘role’ a man plays out. When he is ordained there is an ontological change that takes place through the grace of ordination. The word “career” strips the priesthood of all its grace and honor and secularizes its meaning.

Bravo for this Archbishop!

I agree. The praishoner’s use of the notion of “career” says it all.

Bravo indeed!

 

[francesco920]

For me, I would walk out of that “mass” and report it to the archdiocese and even the Vatican. The grieving family has NO right to request a thing as this; no right whatsoever. Either they practise Catholicism or go onto something that accomodates their spiritual inclinations.

Yes, I agree totally.

 

[Roy5]

Your ceremonies are meaningless, your ecumenism is false, and your religion is without Biblical and apostolic foundation. Come back to the genuine Christian faith, and then the treasures of the Church will be open to you. Persist in heresy, and don’t expect anything of the sort.

/U

  I haven't figured out as yet how to take this quote and reproduce it while commenting on it.

  Is Dauphin's attack on Protestantism the way many Catholics still feel? If so, they had better clean up their minds, hearts and souls since they are corrupted by prejudice and hate, unworthy of any Christian of any affiliation. This kind of bigotry is simply evil. Christ would have no part of it. Such blatant bigotry gives the church a bad name.

 

[catharina]

I can’t speak for the feelings or beliefs of “many Catholics” but I do know that the Church would never agree with Dauphin’s declamation of Protestants as heretical. The Church is aware (and teaches) that while Protestants are in need of the fullness of truth, the faith that they will find in the Catholic Church, they are usually centuries removed from any guilt for heretical beliefs.

In other words, as individuals, they did not choose to leave the Catholic Church for reasons of heresy. Certainly the Catholic teaching about the reception of the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist is very clear-cut. It requires long preparation before any Catholic is allowed to receive Holy Communion and purposes of “fellowship” would never justify the reception of Holy Communion by any and all who happen to be inside a Catholic Church

 

[Roy5]

One thought that came to my mind: a priest in Baltimore is removed for liturgical abuse, but for decades pedophile priests were protected by bishops and furtively assigned to new amd unsuspecting parishes. Is there something wrong with that picture?

 

[FAB]

One thought that came to my mind: a priest in Baltimore is removed for liturgical abuse, but for decades pedophile priests were protected by bishops and furtively assigned to new amd unsuspecting parishes. Is there something wrong with that picture?

No. The Bishops have learned from past mistakes. The Church has taken hugh hits from the scandle and the Bishops are only making certain that abuses are stopped throughout the Church.

 

[bpbasilphx]

<<This has been the way I have known it all my life. Did Vatican 2 require deacons to read the Gospel? Is that Canon Law?>>

It has always been the principal liturgical ministry of the deacon to read the Gospel, which is why his ordination (in the Latin tradition) comes before the Gospel: so he can begin exercising his ministry immediately.

Other historical roles of the deacon have been leading the intercessions, assisting at preparing the oblata, and helping distribute communion. This is seen in all the classical rites.

 

[Marauder]

One thought that came to my mind: a priest in Baltimore is removed for liturgical abuse, but for decades pedophile priests were protected by bishops and furtively assigned to new amd unsuspecting parishes. Is there something wrong with that picture?

Just because some bishops may have hidden/moved pedophile priests doesn’t mean all of them did. Nobody has ever claimed that the new Archbishop of Baltimore has hidden pedophile priests. Just because some bishops did things wrong does that mean every bishop should overlook anything that a priest does beside pedophilia.

The Bishop is the boss of his diocese. As such he can hire, fire, and discipline his employees. Just like the bosses of any private company. If I had done stuff wrong at work, then ignored my boss he would fire me. In this case the priest was suspended and sent to consoling and if he finishes counseling and comes in line with church teaching he can go back to work. Much better then a normal job.

 

[KCT]

At Protestant churches I have witnessed a true sharing in weddings by both ministers and guest priests (those willing to co-officiate). If communion is part of the ceremony, which it usually is not in an interfaith ceremony, everyone is invited to receive.

Which way do you think Christ would prefer? He worked hard at breaking down walls and building bridges.

I think he’d prefer everyone be Catholic again. —KCT

 

[Roy5]

I think he’d prefer everyone be Catholic again. —KCT

  Most mainline Protestants view themselves as Catholics, and repeat the Apostles Creed which includes that.

  However, Catholic and Roman Catholic are not identifical. To serious students of history, early Christianity was not monolithic. The churches in the East did not acknowledge the authority of the Bishop of Rome over the entire church. 

  The argument often is made that the Bishop of Rome began to claim universal authority because that city was the center of the Roman Empire. There also is the argument that the Pope replaced - essentially - the Emperor and many of the traditions continued. For example, the adulation of the Pope. Or, how the Pope has been carried aloft by the Swiss papal guards while the crowds shout 'Viva la Papa!' - the chant shouted 2000 years ago by the pagan Romans as their emperor was carried aloft by special guards. Etc.

   What Christians should do it respect other Christians and work toward unity. Such unity would still permit differences but emphasize our oneness in Christ. In many communities, such as mine, there has developed a warm feeling between Catholics and most Protestants, and they worship and work together at times. This must make Christ very happy. It's silly to let different opinions on doctrine and such serve to divide us in the world today. No church has all the truth (sorry if that sounds like heresy).  God is too big to be contained in any one creed or theology.

  Happy Thanksgiving. We had a superb ecumenical Thanksgiving service last night. Only a few fervent evangelicals and a couple of priests missed it.