Baptism of babies & infants

[rev_kevin]

Jesus Christ Himself instituted the sacrament…for everyone! He certainly did not wait until the age of 30 so that some 21st century non-denominational sect could exclude infants from the sacrament of baptism while teaching the false doctrine of “the age of reason”.
It surely seems like that is what you are saying.

Do the math Jesus was born then at the age of 12 he reapears in the Bible at the temple, then we here nothing until 18 years later when he was Baptized so 12 +18=30 no do you get it!

 

[rev_kevin]

Jesus Christ Himself instituted the sacrament…for everyone! He certainly did not wait until the age of 30 so that some 21st century non-denominational sect could exclude infants from the sacrament of baptism while teaching the false doctrine of “the age of reason”.
It surely seems like that is what you are saying.

Since the Sacred Scripture does not have the word “Trinity”…I am guessing you do not accept that either?

You made a jump from baptism to the trinity, why? Yes i do believe in the trinity God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. As a matter of fact all 3 were present at the Baptism of Jesus, God spoke, Jesus bapiezed and the Holy spirit as a dove.
Like I said do the math!

 

[rev_kevin]

Do the math Jesus was born then at the age of 12 he reapears in the Bible at the temple, then we here nothing until 18 years later when he was Baptized so 12 +18=30 no do you get it!

Well he certainly wasn’t a infant when he was baptized, was he! can you explain that?

 

[rev_kevin]

LOL!!! Are you saying that Jesus Christ was not baptized until he came to this mythical “age of reason” that you have invented? That’s a good one!
Entire households. Get it?

There is also something called original sin that we are born with.

Didn’t Jesus die on the cross for our sins or isn’t original sin included?

 

[SavedbyHisBlood]

Didn’t Jesus die on the cross for our sins or isn’t original sin included?

He died so all our sins may be forgiven, not to abolish all sin. All of mankind is still born with original sin and all of mankind still sins. The point of Him dying is so that the sins we commit can be forgiven.

 

[SavedbyHisBlood]

Well he certainly wasn’t a infant when he was baptized, was he! can you explain that?

Nobody said he was an infant when he was baptized. how could he institute the sacrement of baptizm if he were an infant? that makes no sense…

 

[rev_kevin]

Then why baptize infants? No body has been able to prove to me were it specifically says in the Bible to baptize infants. The only thing I get is the whole house hold. Thats not proof

 

[rev_kevin]

Nobody said he was an infant when he was baptized. how could he institute the sacrement of baptizm if he were an infant? that makes no sense…

He was the same as a infant as he was a adult. The son of God. So if he was baptized as a infant wouldn’t it be instituted the same? Why must he be an adult to do that? After he was the son of God from the begining.

 

[rev_kevin]

He was the same as a infant as he was a adult. The son of God. So if he was baptized as a infant wouldn’t it be instituted the same? Why must he be an adult to do that? After he was the son of God from the begining.

Baptize- To immerse or sprinkle with water during Baptism {Webssters dictionary}
Bptism- immersion , submersion. {romans 6:1-4} Water Baptism for new Christians calls for special attention {Matthew 28:18-20} Baptism doesn’t save a person, but is a picture of obedience to Christ. Scriptural Baptism occurs only once. It is a matter between God and the individual when the time occures. {The student Bible dictionary}

 

[rev_kevin]

He died so all our sins may be forgiven, not to abolish all sin. All of mankind is still born with original sin and all of mankind still sins. The point of Him dying is so that the sins we commit can be forgiven.

But baptism doesn’t whipe away sin, but yes i stand to be corrected you are right about his death and sin.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Then why baptize infants? No body has been able to prove to me were it specifically says in the Bible to baptize infants. The only thing I get is the whole house hold. Thats not proof

Can you show from the Bible were it specifically says to only baptize adults.

 

[placido]

No were in the Bible does it say to baptize a baby or infant.

So what? Nowhere in the Bible does it say not to baptize a baby or infant either. Additionally, nowhere in the Bible does it say everything must be written in the Bible.

When Jesus was born he was not baptized as a infant or baby or even as a todler. Jesus was presented to God, not baptized. {Luke 2:22 “Then it was time for the purification offering, as required by the law of Moses after the birth of a child: so his parents took him to Jerusalem to PRESENT him to the Lord.”}

Jesus was born under the Old Testament law. That was according to that law that He was presented to God in Jerusalem.

Jesus was 30 years old when he went to John the baptist to be baptized.

Are you seriously saying that any baptism before the age of 30 is invalid?

Definition: Immersion, submersion.{Romans 6:1-4} Water baptism for new Christians calls for special attention {Matthew 28:18-20}.

Why does the method of baptism matter and why this “special attention” if, as you said, baptism is useless, it “doesn’t save?

Baptism doesn’t save a person, but is a picture of personal salvation and a sign of obedience to Christ.

And where did you get that “picture” from, definitely not from the Bible. “Baptism now saves you,” says the Bible (1 Peter 3:21).

Baptism is not a requirement of salvation, but it is a requirement of obedience.

And, according that weird argument, obedience of God is not required for salvation.

Before Christian baptism, other uses of baptism existed: The OT Mosaic laws included a baptism of washing {EX. 30:17 21}. Naaman baptized himself in the Jordan River as an act of obedience related to his healing {2 Kings 5:14}. John the Baptist’s baptism was like death to the believer’s old way of living and birth to a new kind of living {John 1: 19-34}

You are saying baptism is the birth to a new kind of living, contradicting your earlier assertion to the effect that baptism is useless, just a waste of time.

It had the same elements of later Christian baptism: Repentance, confession, evidence of changed lives, coming judgment, and a focus on Jesus and His Spirit.

And finally, you gave yourself a knockout. If baptism is useless (like you say) then all the elements you associate with it (repentance, confession, evidence of changed lives, coming judgment, and a focus on Jesus and His Spirit) are useless.

placido

 

[ParkerD]

Can you show from the Bible were it specifically says to only baptize adults.

Bill,
It does say to baptize believers. Belief and baptism go together like hand in glove.

 

[placido]

Entire households. Get it?

Those who refuse to see babies and infants in a household remind me of my daughter who once asked me: “papa, every time I am invited for dinner, I m given several food stuffs but not dinner”.

placido

 

[placido]

yes babies are part of a household get it right! I never said they weren’t. Why should I read the early Church Fathers isn’t the Bible good enough.

If the Bible is enough (making the Church Fathers redudant), then the Bible is enough (making your arguments here redudant).

Once again I’m going to point you to Mark 10:13-16
“Let the children come to me. Don’t stop them! For the KINGDOM BELONGS TO THEM”
Does it say the kingdom belongs to them only if they are baptized NO it does not. You have yet to show me were it says infants must be baptized inorder to go to heaven! and not just the household!

Either you disbelieve Jesus’ teaching that NO ONE can enter heaven if not born of water and spirit, or you think babies and infants are not human beings and are therefore not included in the “NO NONE”.

placido

 

[placido]

He was the same as a infant as he was a adult. The son of God. So if he was baptized as a infant wouldn’t it be instituted the same? Why must he be an adult to do that? After he was the son of God from the begining.

So, since He was circumcised as a baby, you believe by that act He instituted circumcision - after all, He was the son of God from the beginning.

placido

 

[zaffiroborant]

Bill,
It does say to baptize believers. Belief and baptism go together like hand in glove.

Where does it say that exactly. Even if household excluded children, where does it say that household members believed?

 

[placido]

If the Bible is enough (making the Church Fathers redudant), then the Bible is enough (making your arguments here redudant).

Oops, I mean redundant.

placido

 

[ParkerD]

Where does it say that exactly. Even if household excluded children, where does it say that household members believed?

Hi, Zaffiroborant,
See Acts 18:8. See also Acts 10:47 and Acts 11:14-18 about the “house” (or household) of Cornelius, and verse 17 says specifically “who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ;”

 

[rev_kevin]

Micky
Thank you for your comments. You just reafirmed the reason I left the Catholic faith.
You don’t like others point of views and you laugh at them for their views. You don’t have a open mind to anything. You think that your religion should be the only one and no other religion counts. You can’t prove to me anything about why infants should be baptised. You can’t point it out in the bible only the house hold, not proof. You said that I don’t think infants are human or that they are not part of the house hold. That just showed me how narrow minded and ignorant you are. I told you that Jesus didn’t get baptized until the age of 30 and you made light of that. I have given you the proof straight from the bible, I did the math, did you? 12+18=30. You have to put me down to get your point across and belittle me because my views are not yours. That’s being a good Catholic. Is that what you are taught in your church? Is that what Jesus taught to his followers? Maybe you should read the bible and try to understand what it is telling you because you are doing the opposite.
Once again thank you for reaffirming my decession to leave the Catholic faith. Part of me leaving is because of people like you.
Reverend Kevin