Baptism

[wmscott]

Sounds like no apology at all but thanks for pretending. It would be a better description of the large percentage of Catholics that have left the church than one that was raised in a different denomination. They actually left the church as opposed to the ones that were never a part of the church.

Wow somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed. You are taking something way out of context in which it was meant, That being it was not meant as a prelude to create an argument. If you took offense, Then I guess that is your issue to work through.

 

[FathersKnowBest]

Has it been revealed at what age a child can be held accountable for not being Baptized because one does not know about it?

If one truly does not know about it, age is irrelevant.

Joh 15:22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.

 

[FathersKnowBest]

Though I will admit that I’m very glad I’ve been able to see these unappealing traits and hopefully learn to avoid them.

Being a bit judgemental here, aren’t we?

 

[Brandall]

Being a bit judgemental here, aren’t we?

The church is very appealing but some of the members are not. If you don’t think that’s a problem, then things should not change.

As someone that is converting to the catholic faith, I’m having to overlook those.

 

[fbl9]

I’m not Baptist, but I will play devil’s advocate. Just because something is symbolic, why does that necessarily make it “empty”? It obviously isn’t “empty” for Baptists since they historically faced persecution and death for their beliefs about baptism.

It’s part of the process of becoming a disciple of Christ. Baptists have their reasons, which I think have been explained clearly enough on this thread, to think that the details are important.

To me it is an empty ritual in that it has absolutely no effect for one’s salvation.
A symbol has no substance,
Why would Christ command us to do something that has no bearing on one’s salvation? Makes no sense to me.

thanks for your replies itwin

 

[ltwin]

To me it is an empty ritual in that it has absolutely no effect for one’s salvation.

OK, so it isn’t efficacious. Then say that. I mean, calling it an “empty ritual” is rather crude. Symbolic baptism, though symbolic, is still filled biblical symbolism and implications. It points to Christ’s death and resurrection and the believer’s participation in His suffering and victory. That’s not “empty” no matter how you attempt to say it is.

A symbol has no substance,

Yes, because it points to something that does have substance. A symbol means what it signifies, so how can it ever be empty? The symbol visibly directs attention to the invisible reality.

Why would Christ command us to do something that has no bearing on one’s salvation? Makes no sense to me.

Interesting question. I’m going off the reservation here (Warning: I have no idea if this is compatible with Baptist theology. ).

Jack Hayford, a Pentecostal pastor, teaches that there are “points of release” or benefits to water baptism. These are his sermon notes:

At Jesus’ baptism, there came an infusion of things from heaven (Matthew 3:13-17; Mark 1:9-11; Luke 3:21-22). Those are the things He wants to release in our life:

1. Baptism provides an occasion for a heavenly announcement to your soul (Mark 1:11).

When you are immersed in the waters of baptism, you are announcing, “My former life of self-will and sin is being buried in these waters as though they are buried in a tomb.”

1. Baptism provides a setting for spiritual breakthrough in your circumstance (Mark 1:10).

Through the power of Jesus’ resurrection, when you come up out of the water you declare a victory of renewal – you choose from that moment to live with Christ, free from the failure and bondage of your past (Romans 6:1-7; Colossians 2:12).

1. Baptism opens the way to a ceaseless overflowing of the Holy Spirit upon your life (Mark 1:10).

When we receive Jesus Christ as our Savior, we are redeemed to live in new dimensions of life in the Lord, in the purity and power of the Holy Spirit with the same unlimited measure of resource Father God gave to His Son, Jesus. Water baptism not only opens this resource to us, but it provides a continuing supply of availability upon which we can draw throughout our lives.
​

Hayford once told a story that during a baptismal service there was a young married couple who were about to be baptized. Hayford says that he felt lead to tell the couple (which he didn’t know personally) that there were problems in their marriage caused by things that occurred before they became Christians.

He used the analogy of the Hebrews leaving Egypt. They had already went through passover, and the blood of the lamb had already been applied over their lives. Yet, the Egyptian army was still pursuing them.

Baptism, Hayford said, is like the drowning of Pharaoh’s army in the Red Sea. In baptism, those things that want to keep us enslaved, are drowned but we come out of the waters victorious.

thanks for your replies itwin

Thanks, you too.

 

[stewstew03]

The church is very appealing but some of the members are not. If you don’t think that’s a problem, then things should not change.

As someone that is converting to the catholic faith, I’m having to overlook those.

It’s a big church. Hopefully you are joining the Church because the Holy Spirit has revealed Truth. In any event, you may want to lower your expectations in terms of Catholic parishioners – we are all sinners in need of grace. We don’t necessarily need you to overlook our faults, but it will certainly help you to grow spiritually if you are able to do so…

 

[Amo_a_Jesus]

Hey look i have a answer from the cccftl pastor:

The Bible teaches that baptism should be something experienced only by those who consciously place their faith in Jesus Christ: (Acts 8:36-37 NKJV) Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” {37} Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” (1 Peter 3:21 NKJV) There is also an antitype which now saves us; baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Obviously, infants and toddlers aren’t capable of believing with all of their heart in the gospel of Jesus Christ, nor can they pledge that their conscience has been cleansed by God. Therefore, we believe that infant/toddler baptism is something without warrant in the word, and doesn’t reflect the essential spiritual significance for the child that is being baptized. It might be a nice tradition in some churches, but it’s value never goes beyond this since God never commands or commends it.

We do see a few instances where children are baptized, but in each case it is assumed that they had also consciously believed the message of the gospel, and were then baptized (Acts 16:33). But we never see an infant or a person who is not conscious of the gospel message being baptized.

So please understand that it is not just because “the Bible doesn’t give us an example of it”. Rather, our practice to dedicate rather than baptize infants and young children, is based on clear scriptural warrant that baptism is to be reserved for conscious and willing participants who have placed their faith in the Gospel.

As for baptizing at the beach, this is simply what we choose to do as a church, but recognize that the Bible leaves latitude for baptism to occur in any venue. The heart is what matters, not the exact venue. I think we agree on this point. I hope this helps to clarify.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Hey look i have a answer from the cccftl pastor:

The Bible teaches that baptism should be something experienced only by those who consciously place their faith in Jesus Christ: (Acts 8:36-37 NKJV) Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” {37} Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” (1 Peter 3:21 NKJV) There is also an antitype which now saves us; baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Obviously, infants and toddlers aren’t capable of believing with all of their heart in the gospel of Jesus Christ, nor can they pledge that their conscience has been cleansed by God. Therefore, we believe that infant/toddler baptism is something without warrant in the word, and doesn’t reflect the essential spiritual significance for the child that is being baptized. It might be a nice tradition in some churches, but it’s value never goes beyond this since God never commands or commends it.

We do see a few instances where children are baptized, but in each case it is assumed that they had also consciously believed the message of the gospel, and were then baptized (Acts 16:33). But we never see an infant or a person who is not conscious of the gospel message being baptized.

So please understand that it is not just because “the Bible doesn’t give us an example of it”. Rather, our practice to dedicate rather than baptize infants and young children, is based on clear scriptural warrant that baptism is to be reserved for conscious and willing participants who have placed their faith in the Gospel.

As for baptizing at the beach, this is simply what we choose to do as a church, but recognize that the Bible leaves latitude for baptism to occur in any venue. The heart is what matters, not the exact venue. I think we agree on this point. I hope this helps to clarify.

He makes a major assumption or error.

He says because the Bible gives examples of adult baptism then that is what it commands.

No it just gives examples of adult baptisms.

He also assumes that the children in Acts 16 were old enough to accept the message themselves. There is no basis for this assumption.

 

[FathersKnowBest]

He makes a major assumption or error.

He says because the Bible gives examples of adult baptism then that is what it commands.

No it just gives examples of adult baptisms.

Exactly.

And, just as the Catholic Church teaches today, if an adult wishes to be baptised, he or she must profess belief in Jesus.

 

[BeProfOSX]

I picked this up from an LCMS friend of mine:

If you want to understand how Baptists see baptism and why they do it the way they do it, then you need to understand that Baptists see baptism as fulfilling the role of both baptism and confirmation.

Even though we’d never put it that way, that’s as good a way to try to translate our view into terms that you can understand as any.

 

[Godric2]

Thats a helpful guide to that understanding.

I believe that for many Christians in different periods of history baptism and confirmation have been seen as more of a unity than they are in some other times / places.

Re-membering baptism"]Re-membering baptism