Baptists and Mary

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ahimsaman72 said:
“The early church had no such litmus test.”
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They certainly did for Abortion!

Didache - AD 70
"The second commandment of the teaching: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not seduce boys. You shall not commit fornication. You shall not steal. You shall not practice magic. You shall not use potions. You shall not procure [an] abortion, nor destroy a newborn child (Didache 2:1–2 [A.D. 70]).
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Epistle of Barnabas - AD 74
“The way of light, then, is as follows. If anyone desires to travel to the appointed place, he must be zealous in his works. The knowledge, therefore, which is given to us for the purpose of walking in this way, is the following. . . . Thou shalt not slay the child by procuring abortion; nor, again, shalt thou destroy it after it is born” (Epistle of Barnabas to the 19 [A.D. 74]).
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Athenagoras - AD 177
“What man of sound mind, therefore, will affirm, while such is our character, that we are murderers?
. . . [W]hen we say that those women who use drugs to bring on abortion commit murder, and will have to give an account to God for the abortion, on what principle should we commit murder? For it does not belong to the same person to regard the very fetus in the womb as a created being, and therefore an object of God’s care, and when it has passed into life, to kill it; and not to expose an infant, because those who expose them are chargeable with child-murder, and on the other hand, when it has been reared to destroy it” (A Plea for the Christians 35 [A.D. 177]).
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Tertullian - AD 210
“Now we hold that life begins with conception because we contend that the soul also begins from conception; life taking its commencement at the same moment and place that the soul does” (*The Soul * 27 [A.D. 210])
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“The law of Moses, indeed, punishes with due penalties the man who shall cause abortion [Ex. 21:22–24]” (The Soul., 37).

Pretty sound proof that the Early Church was Pro-Life.
 
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Brendan:
They certainly did for Abortion!

Didache - AD 70
"

Epistle of Barnabas - AD 74

Athenagoras - AD 177

Tertullian - AD 210

“The law of Moses, indeed, punishes with due penalties the man who shall cause abortion [Ex. 21:22–24]” (The Soul., 37).

Pretty sound proof that the Early Church was Pro-Life.
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What you have quoted is Catholic church tradition, not Scripture. My definition of the “early church” is the churches described in Scripture. They were not Roman Catholic. They were local independent churches with local authority within themselves.
 
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mercygate:
Nor did it need one for *those *issues. The Church is a living authority which must meet the world as the world changes and challenges.
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Then you agree with me that there was no “litmus test”. At least that’s a start. Christ Himself is the only capable living authority that can meet the world’s changes and challenges. It cannot be done through any single human authority or collection of human authority. It is found in Christ Himself. You can find Him in living words of Scripture that never change. You can also find Him in prayer when you seek Him. You can also find Him in the eyes and heart of other believers. You can also find Him in places you would not expect Him to be.
 
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ahimsaman72:
What you have quoted is Catholic church tradition, not Scripture. My definition of the “early church” is the churches described in Scripture. They were not Roman Catholic. They were local independent churches with local authority within themselves.
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History clearly does not confirm this view, even within New Testament times. Brendan has already shown several historic sources which point to the teaching of the early Church. This thread is about Baptists and Mary.
 
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ahimsaman72:
What you have quoted is Catholic church tradition, not Scripture. My definition of the “early church” is the churches described in Scripture. They were not Roman Catholic. They were local independent churches with local authority within themselves.
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So that Early Church didn’t include Barnabas?

He wasn’t described in Scripture at all?
 
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mercygate:
This thread is about Baptists and Mary.
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I have mentioned this fact to at least two posters recently, but keep getting posts concerned with this. I agree.
 
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Brendan:
So that Early Church didn’t include Barnabas?

He wasn’t described in Scripture at all?
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Of course, Barnabas is mentioned, like so many other early Christians. Again, this thread is going south and will be shut down soon I’m afraid because we are going off topic.
 
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mercygate:
History clearly does not confirm this view, even within New Testament times. Brendan has already shown several historic sources which point to the teaching of the early Church. This thread is about Baptists and Mary.
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Read 251 and 253.
 
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ahimsaman72:
Of course, Barnabas is mentioned, like so many other early Christians. Again, this thread is going south and will be shut down soon I’m afraid because we are going off topic.
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So if Barnabas had a ‘litmus test’ on abortion, does that not present a strong indication that the Early Church of Acts did, if not proof?

Or did Barnabas just really misunderstand Paul during their time together?
 
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Brendan:
So if Barnabas had a ‘litmus test’ on abortion, does that not present a strong indication that the Early Church of Acts did, if not proof?

Or did Barnabas just really misunderstand Paul during their time together?
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We are desperately leaving the thread topic, friend. You may PM me if you want to discuss further.
 
To many Christians the role of Mary as Mother of God and also their Mother finds no support in the New Testament. But Martin Luther from his study of the scriptures could write in 1529:

"Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of us all.
If Christ be ours . . . all that he has must be ours,
and His Mother also must be ours."

The simple gospel fact is that Jesus had a mother and that that mother had a mission in the plan of Salvation. In our human history there would have been no Fatherhood of God without the Motherhood of Mary, for God became man in the normal way of men through a mother. Had He been only a man who lived and died and was forgotten then she too could be ignored and forgotten.

But the Jesus who was born of Mary expanded into mankind, making Mary the mother of mankind. Jesus is Christianity - Mary, the mother of Christianity.

Anyone who honestly considers this basic Christian truth can never say Mary is irrelevant, for nothing that mattered to Jesus can be irrelevant.

And Mary mattered to Jesus. The person who sets his life on being one with Jesus, of following His teaching and imitating Him oftentimes overlooks the very first act of Jesus in the plan of Redemption: He first gave Himself to Mary.

And in the end, from the cross, He gave her to us.

The great goal of the Christian is to be identified with Jesus, to be one with Him. In this sense Mary was the first Christian and her purpose, now, is to bring that same Jesus to His fullness as He lives on in us. “For we,” says St. Paul, “are the Body of Christ.”

The role of Mary as Mother of God is in fact found in the Bible. In Luke 1:41-45 we find the following:

And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb leaped for joy. And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfilment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.”
 
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ahimsaman72:
What you have quoted is Catholic church tradition, not Scripture. My definition of the “early church” is the churches described in Scripture. They were not Roman Catholic. They were local independent churches with local authority within themselves.
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0-4th century church does not qualify as “early” church? wonder why… :rolleyes:
 
Catholicism, not Protestantism, represents the faith of the early church. http://catholiceducation.org/images/saints/saintpg1e.JPG
In Chapter 5 of Evangelicals, Catholics and Unity, Dr. Michael Scott Horton, Vice Chairman of the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, admits that Protestants are not too much into history. He has proven the validity of this statement — in regard to his own knowledge.

Dr. Horton claims that Protestantism has been the true faith since the Church’s inception. In chapter 2, Dr. Horton incredibly classifies himself and other Protestants as members of the “early Catholic Church”. He defines the “early Catholic Church” by saying: “Catholic means universal, and it refers to those truths that are, as St. Paul identified them, to be held “without controversy” (1 Tim 3:16 KJV). It also refers to that body of Christians who, distinct from the heretical and schismatic sects that have plagued Christian unity throughout the ages, submit to the doctrine and discipline of Christ as he mediates his prophetic, priestly, kingly ministry in the visible church throughout the Scriptures.”

He also says, “It was the early Roman Catholic Church that successfully opposed the Gnostics, Arians, Pelagians, and numerous other false movement, and we who count ourselves evangelical Protestants belong to this Catholic Church today.”
 
mayra hart:
Catholicism, not Protestantism, represents the faith of the early church. http://catholiceducation.org/images/saints/saintpg1e.JPG
In Chapter 5 of Evangelicals, Catholics and Unity, Dr. Michael Scott Horton, Vice Chairman of the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, admits that Protestants are not too much into history. He has proven the validity of this statement — in regard to his own knowledge.

Dr. Horton claims that Protestantism has been the true faith since the Church’s inception. In chapter 2, Dr. Horton incredibly classifies himself and other Protestants as members of the “early Catholic Church”. He defines the “early Catholic Church” by saying: “Catholic means universal, and it refers to those truths that are, as St. Paul identified them, to be held “without controversy” (1 Tim 3:16 KJV). It also refers to that body of Christians who, distinct from the heretical and schismatic sects that have plagued Christian unity throughout the ages, submit to the doctrine and discipline of Christ as he mediates his prophetic, priestly, kingly ministry in the visible church throughout the Scriptures.”

He also says, “It was the early Roman Catholic Church that successfully opposed the Gnostics, Arians, Pelagians, and numerous other false movement, and we who count ourselves evangelical Protestants belong to this Catholic Church today.”
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“To be steeped in history is to cease to be protestant.” – John Cardinal Newman.
 
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ahimsaman72:
This thread is about Baptists and Mary.
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indeed it is… i was baptist…lukewarm and fallen away…until i went to the Blessed Mother (the bible does say all generations shall call me blessed…Luke 1:48…also Luke 1:28 and 42…why is it that bible only Christians don’t follow the bible and call her Blessed?:o :confused: 😦 )… who then did what She does best… She led me to Her Son…and into His Church… where all Christians should be (see 1 Corinthians 1:10)… remember there was a Church before there was a bible
 
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