Baptists and Mary

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ahimsaman72:
Can you give me an example of this “Bible notion of kingship, the mother of the king is queen”? Just curious.
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When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, the king stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne. He had a throne brought for the king’s mother, and she sat down at his right hand. (1 Kings 2:19)
 
It is true, that in the Old Testament some mothers ruled as Queens with their sons. But this was in a human relationship. Jesus Christ is DIVINE and not human. Mary is but a human spirit, along with countless other human spirits who reside in heaven with her. Only one that is DIVINE can rule alongside of God. But Mary devotees keep trying to make Mary a “goddess” of sorts anyway. It just won’t work. God says there is NO GOD, beside me and no other Savior.

Ron from Ohio
 
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rarndt01:
It is true, that in the Old Testament some mothers ruled as Queens with their sons. But this was in a human relationship. Jesus Christ is DIVINE and not human. Mary is but a human spirit, along with countless other human spirits who reside in heaven with her. Only one that is DIVINE can rule alongside of God. But Mary devotees keep trying to make Mary a “goddess” of sorts anyway. It just won’t work. God says there is NO GOD, beside me and no other Savior.

Ron from Ohio
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Mary is not divine, but she’s the Mother of Jesus-Christ, the King. Mary is not another God and you know that the Church don’t teach that.
 
Sarah Jane:
When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, the king stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne. He had a throne brought for the king’s mother, and she sat down at his right hand. (1 Kings 2:19)
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And so from this we can deduce that Mary is the “queen of heaven”?

If you look at this whole chapter you see some things which need to be pointed out.

First, notice the circumstances. Solomon had just inherited the kingdom from his father, David. He is on his throne. Solomon’s half brother, Adonijah is asking for Abishag to have as his wife. Adonijah comes to Bathsheba to get his foot in the door. He’s afraid Solomon will be angry with him. 🙂

Second, notice what happens. Bathsheba complies with Adonijah. Why? I don’t know. Doesn’t matter. Anyway, she agrees to go to her son, the king - to ask him for this favor. She sits next to him on his throne, as you pointed out. Then when she asks him this favor, he becomes very angry. In fact, he wants to have Adonijah killed for even asking.

What correlation is there here? Bathsheba is King Solomon’s mother. Solomon has a “seat” brought and put next to his throne. Your use of a “throne” is not used in all translations. The KJV and ESV use “seat”. NASB and others use “throne”. Either way, she sits next to Solomon. She isn’t given any kind of authority. She is honored simply as his mother. As a matter of fact, Solomon denies his mother’s request to grant Abishag to Adonijah and becomes so angry that he decides to kill the man who sent his mother to him.

Please find another example.
 
Sarah Jane

But being his EARTHLY mother doesn’t mean she RULES alongside her DIVINE son now does it? What will you do Sarah when the Pope declares Mary as an official CO-REDEEMER? Will you also believe that lie as well? It’s coming.

Ron from Ohio
 
But being his EARTHLY mother doesn’t mean she RULES alongside her DIVINE son now does it? What will you do Sarah when the Pope declares Mary as an official CO-REDEEMER? Will you also believe that lie as well? It’s coming.
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Ron from Ohio
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May I answer this for you?

In view of your thinking that Mary is just an earthly Mother of Jesus, I beg to disagree, so is the Catholic Church. Mary’s Motherhood is not to be understood as being only for the human aspect of Jesus, otherwise we divide the one Person of Christ–human and divine. Jesus Person is not divided, there is only one Person Jesus Christ–both Human and Divine as One. To believe otherwise is to say that there are two Persons of Jesus, Human Person and Divine Person. This is tantamount to heresy in the early Church called Nestorian heresy. We believe there is only ONE PERSON of Jesus Christ, so Mary is rightly called “Theotokos”-Godbearer. She is indeed the Mother of the One Person of Jesus–both Human and Divine. She is rightly and perfectly called the Mother of God, AMEN.

She also rules with her Son in heaven. So are we in the future. Now it’s not a question of conflicting rules but of submission and participation. She is not being leveled by the Church as equal to God. This is a great misconception among non-Catholics.

The Pope, or any future Popes, and so is the Church cannot make dogmatic pronouncements for Mary as a Redeemer. We have only One Redeemer-Jesus Christ. Mary participated in that redeeming work of Christ by saying “Yes” to God. So do we. When we proclaim the Gospel of CHrist, we become co-participators of the redeeming work of CHrist. Without preachers no one can hear the Gospels. Without us Christians, no salvation proclaimed. The Gospel could have been useless. In short, Mary as Co-Redemptrix is just a right title to her. She is not the Redeemer, she participated. Without her, Christ would not have been here as a flesh.

God bless!

Pio
 
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rarndt01:
Sarah Jane

But being his EARTHLY mother doesn’t mean she RULES alongside her DIVINE son now does it? What will you do Sarah when the Pope declares Mary as an official CO-REDEEMER? Will you also believe that lie as well? It’s coming.

Ron from Ohio
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I read in French that the Vatican refuses to define this dogma because the term is ambiguous.

How do you explain this verse?

“Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.” (Rev 4:4)
 
Sarah Jane:
We honor Mary as mother of Jesus-Christ.
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And so do I as Scripture tells us. She is blessed among women and highly favored. Do you have any other examples that I spoke of regarding “Queen” status?
 
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hlgomez:
In short, Mary as Co-Redemptrix is just a right title to her. She is not the Redeemer, she participated. Without her, Christ would not have been here as a flesh.

God bless!

Pio
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God would have found another way.
 
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ahimsaman72:
And so do I as Scripture tells us. She is blessed among women and highly favored. Do you have any other examples that I spoke of regarding “Queen” status?
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The saints in Heaven are all kings and queens with the King.

“Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day–and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.” (2 Tim 4:8)
 
Originally Posted by hlgomez
*In short, Mary as Co-Redemptrix is just a right title to her. She is not the Redeemer, she participated. Without her, Christ would not have been here as a flesh. *

God bless!

Pio
God would have found another way.
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ahimsaman72,

God choses it that way and He choses the ultimate way for redemption. Since God choses it that way, do you have to reject it? Since God choses Mary to be the Mother of His Son, do you reject her title? The Son choses to honor her perfectly, do you dishonor her? The Holy Spirit, who filled Elizabeth, exclaimed and said “She is the Mother of the Lord God” who comes to visit her, do you say it’s just the humanity of Jesus?

Do you have a better way than God?

Pio
 
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hlgomez:
ahimsaman72,

God choses it that way and He choses the ultimate way for redemption. Since God choses it that way, do you have to reject it? Since God choses Mary to be the Mother of His Son, do you reject her title? The Son choses to honor her perfectly, do you dishonor her? The Holy Spirit, who filled Elizabeth, exclaimed and said “She is the Mother of the Lord God” who comes to visit her, do you say it’s just the humanity of Jesus?

Do you have a better way than God?

Pio
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God could have chosen Elizabeth. If Elizabeth refused, he could have chosen someone else. If that someone else refused…you get my point. I have no idea what you mean by “honor her perfectly”.

Obviously, Mary was the mother of our Lord - as Scripture attests to. She was the mother of Jesus, who is divine and human. Nowhere is it said that she is sinless - as some posters have claimed.
 
Nowhere is it said that she is sinless - as some posters have claimed.
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This is an incongruity to suppose that the flesh, from which the flesh of the Son of God was to be formed, should ever have belonged to Satan.
 
Sarah Jane:
The saints in Heaven are all kings and queens with the King.

“Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day–and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.” (2 Tim 4:8)
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So, given your logic here, it is safe to say that along with Mary, the Lord’s mother, all the saints who died before us are kings and queens in heaven and we will be also when we make it there. Therefore, why should the catholic church promote Mary as THE queen of heaven and give her so much praise? And given that same logic, why aren’t all the saints on the calendar called as kings and queens and prayed to as such?

I was asking for actual Scripture besides I Kings 2:19 (which I commented on already) which could help explain. The verse quoted above has nothing to do with the topic we were discussing.
 
No, there is only one God who reigns from heaven and that is the triune God. Mary does NOT rule alongside the triune God, for if she did, she would be more than a Queen, she would be a deity, which she is not, nor ever will be, For you see, there is NONE like God, for he is without beginning and end. You don’t BECOME God, you are God. Catholics who are promoting this blasphemy are in danger of hell itself.

Now did God HAVE TO choose Mary as the ONLY vessel to give birth to his son? Was God so desperate to find a young, Jewish woman that he pleaded with her. No, God NEEDS NO ONE. We need him. God didn’t ask Mary, he TOLD HER. Read the text carefully. If was already decreed of God.

Once again there is no place in the tradition passed on by the apostles WHERE THEY STATED Mary was made Queen of heaven and reigning alongside the Triune God. This is blasphemy. And I might add, no where does it say departed spirits of men and women are made Kings and Queens in heaven alongside of God either. We were born to SERVE God and not rule with him in kingly authority. There is only ONE Lord. One Savior, One King, and One God and his name is Jesus Christ. Lord of Lords and King of Kings.

Ron from Ohio
 
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rarndt01:
No, there is only one God who reigns from heaven and that is the triune God. Mary does NOT rule alongside the triune God, for if she did, she would be more than a Queen, she would be a deity, which she is not, nor ever will be, For you see, there is NONE like God, for he is without beginning and end. You don’t BECOME God, you are God. Catholics who are promoting this blasphemy are in danger of hell itself.

Now did God HAVE TO choose Mary as the ONLY vessel to give birth to his son? Was God so desperate to find a young, Jewish woman that he pleaded with her. No, God NEEDS NO ONE. We need him. God didn’t ask Mary, he TOLD HER. Read the text carefully. If was already decreed of God.

Once again there is no place in the tradition passed on by the apostles WHERE THEY STATED Mary was made Queen of heaven and reigning alongside the Triune God. This is blasphemy. And I might add, no where does it say departed spirits of men and women are made Kings and Queens in heaven alongside of God either. We were born to SERVE God and not rule with him in kingly authority. There is only ONE Lord. One Savior, One King, and One God and his name is Jesus Christ. Lord of Lords and King of Kings.

Ron from Ohio
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How do you explain this verse?

“Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.” (Rev 4:4)
 
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ahimsaman72:
So, given your logic here, it is safe to say that along with Mary, the Lord’s mother, all the saints who died before us are kings and queens in heaven and we will be also when we make it there. Therefore, why should the catholic church promote Mary as THE queen of heaven and give her so much praise? And given that same logic, why aren’t all the saints on the calendar called as kings and queens and prayed to as such?

I was asking for actual Scripture besides I Kings 2:19 (which I commented on already) which could help explain. The verse quoted above has nothing to do with the topic we were discussing.
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In Old Testament times, the Queen of Israel was not the King’s wife, because the king had many wives, but rather his mother.

Mary is the mother of Jesus-Christ, the King.
 
Sarah Jane:
This is an incongruity to suppose that the flesh, from which the flesh of the Son of God was to be formed, should ever have belonged to Satan.
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Wasn’t Jesus born as a human with flesh? Wasn’t His mother a human with flesh? Wasn’t he born “under the law” so that he could redeem those “under the law”? You seem to deny His humanity. She was pure enough for God’s work because she had never had relations with a man. She didn’t have to be sinless to bear the Son of God.

The incarnation of Christ (God in the flesh) was a miracle by God. He chose this young virgin. The Holy Spirit effected the conception of Christ. It was a miracle. God did the work. He chose the woman - the Holy Spirit effected the conception -and there we have the incarnation. The heart of the matter is God’s actions to bring about the salvation of mankind.
 
edited Man, i need more patience for apologetics. It’s really true people read what they want to read. God Bless everyone.

Peace
 
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