BAPTISTS, can they change?

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There are many people that call themselves baptist but are not Baptists at all. it seems that any Joe that wants to start his oun church will call it a baptist church so that people will beleive it is an independent and people that go there will call themselves baptist but that does not make them true baptists or their church a true baptist church. Therefore any one goes to a true Baptist Church and believes what a true Baptist Church teaches will never change, thats it!
Now regarding salvation, every true Baptist knows that we are not save because we say the sinners prayer or make a profession of faith or are baptized. We do know that it is God that save us by his power to save whom ever he wants. We do not except Jesus Christ, He excepts us. We do not receive Jesus Christ as personal savior, Jesus Christ recieves us after the Holy Spirit has conditioned and prepared our soul and mind to be followers of Him.

forever Baptist
allischalmers
Thank you for writing back. I appreciate your willingness to explain and would appeal for you to extend to me another degree of patience. I am concerned with the term “true Baptist” whether applied to an individual or to a Church. Mickey asked the question I would ask. How do you know which is the “true” Baptist Church? And who’s the “true” Baptist? What if a person joins what is believed to be a “true” Baptist Church when in actuality it is not? And this person, believing affiliation with a “true” Baptist Church has not been taught well enough to know the difference? Would this Web site be the place where a person would look for a “true Baptist” church? mainstreambaptists.net/

I guess I have too many questions with this and do not know where to start.

Peace.
 
I think she is leaning more toward the truth in Catholisism and I don’t want to push her. Question being, how do you tell other faiths to come to your church? Just say it? Talk about RCIA?
In my case, I invite them to come to Mass with me on one of the quieter days during the week (not on Sunday) and then take them out for coffee or lunch afterwards.

I actually had one person tell me, “Oh, this isn’t the real Catholic Church, because at the real Catholic Church they worship Mary, but here, it was all about Jesus. And wow - so much Bible reading!! Real Catholics don’t read the Bible, you know.”

I just shook my head and didn’t say anything at the time - but I have brought her back a few times, and she is definitely thawing out - she has figured out that this is actually the real Catholic Church, and that the one she was talking about doesn’t actually exist anywhere. But it was best to let her figure that out for herself, rather than get into a debate over it.
 
Gallo:
Excellent … you must have been offended by that quote … Excellent response!
Mgeising
MGEISING,
No offense taken. It just reminded me of how I now face the sting of the judgement of my own words that I once spoke against Catholicism. I praise the Lord, though for Sacraments, especially reconciliation.
The lesson in this: leave the judging to God.

Pax Christi,
Kevin
 
Thank you for writing back. I appreciate your willingness to explain and would appeal for you to extend to me another degree of patience. I am concerned with the term “true Baptist” whether applied to an individual or to a Church. Mickey asked the question I would ask. How do you know which is the “true” Baptist Church? And who’s the “true” Baptist? What if a person joins what is believed to be a “true” Baptist Church when in actuality it is not? And this person, believing affiliation with a “true” Baptist Church has not been taught well enough to know the difference? Would this Web site be the place where a person would look for a “true Baptist” church? mainstreambaptists.net/

I guess I have too many questions with this and do not know where to start.

Peace.
A true baptist Church is a church that is patterned after the first centuary churches started by the apostles and that teaches the truth of the Gospel. That means the it must be independant of any higher governing body, however that does mean that it can not have a membership in a organization of other Baptist Churches for fellowship. People that belong to these church are know as Regular Baptists.

forever Baptist
allischalmers
 
I’m not trying to be confrontational and maybe this isn’t the best thread for this discussion, but I do really want to know. Does this mean that there are people who Christ does not accept? If not, then why aren’t all people saved since the action is the Holy Spirit’s and there is no element of choice on the part of each person?
Roman 9:13 “As it is written, Jacob Have I loved, But Esau have I hated”
The doctrine of election througthout the entire Bible NT and OT alike.

forever Baptist
allischalmers
 
Roman 9:13 “As it is written, Jacob Have I loved, But Esau have I hated”
The doctrine of election througthout the entire Bible NT and OT alike.

forever Baptist
allischalmers
That is predestination, which I thought the Baptist Church rejected years ago. Essentially, that means that God creates people that He deliberately intends to send to hell. Then, that means there is no choice in the matter. Bummer for those who aren’t elected.

I could quote many Scriptures that would refute this claim, but I sense that it would do no good. Frankly, I could not be a part of such a belief system.

Peace
 
A true baptist Church is a church that is patterned after the first centuary churches started by the apostles and that teaches the truth of the Gospel…
forever Baptist
allischalmers
Great to know that a true baptist church is the Catholic Church!👍
 
Hi,
Mystics are The Saints or others who have foreseen the future and predicted accurately the comings of the world. Almost like prophecies. 🙂
Bella, a fuller description of a Catholic mystic would be: One who through deep interior conversion by the grace of God in Christ experiences (not just assents to in Faith) in varying degrees the depth of God’s Trinitarian presence in his or her soul. This experience of the Divine Indwelling may or may not give rise to the occasional gift of God allowing one a glimpse into a future event. Some true mystics would be such as St. Teresa of Jesus, St. John of the Cross, St. Faustina, St. Padre Pio and Bl. Elizabeth of the Trinity.
 
A true baptist Church is a church that is patterned after the first centuary churches started by the apostles and that teaches the truth of the Gospel. That means the it must be independant of any higher governing body, however that does mean that it can not have a membership in a organization of other Baptist Churches for fellowship. People that belong to these church are know as Regular Baptists.

forever Baptist
allischalmers
Peace.

I am not trying to be difficult, but you are mentioning a visible church that is Catholic in origin. For supporting evidence (since the Bible comprised of an OT and NT were not in use, yet) of the Catholic Church, we refer to:

The Didache: Teachings of the 12 Apostles;

The Epistle of St. Ignatius to the Smyreans – Chapter VII – Let Us Stand Aloof From The Heretics – “They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again.”

The Epistle of St. Ignatius to the Smyreans – Chapter VIII.—Let Nothing Be Done Withouth the Bishop – “See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is[administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.”

St. Justin Martyr – The First Apology of Justin - Chapter LXVI – Of the Euchrarist – “And this food is called among us Eukaristia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, “This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;” and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, “This is My blood;” and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.”

St. Justin Martyr – The First Apology of Justin - Chapter LXVII – Weekly Worship of the Christians – “…And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. …But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.”

These are available at: earlychristianwritings.com/

Peace.
 
I think you’re doing good just by telling her things about Christ that are NOT in the Bible. That is sparking her curiosity for truth and depth.
Keep it up and maybe invite her to attend Mass with you sometime? 🙂 If she likes it and seriously wants to become Catholic, RCIA is a good start.
Good answer but most of the Baptist I have gone to Church with me do not understand the mass or do they like the mass so please be able to explain it to them and then answer all the questions.
 
I am a devout Catholic and I have a friend who is a Baptist. She says the Baptists never go outside of scripture , therefore when I tell her about other things about Christ, (What the Saints and mystics had to say etc…), she is baffled about this. She also complains that her church recites the verses over and over again. She counted 41 times last Sunday. (Lord we will raise you etc…)
I think she is leaning more toward the truth in Catholisism and I don’t want to push her. Question being, how do you tell other faiths to come to your church? Just say it? Talk about RCIA?

Thanks. 🙂
Yes. I am living proof; I was raised not only Baptist, but Southern Baptist in the “Bible Belt” and am now attending RCIA classes.😃
 
Bella,

It’s not as hard as you’re making it out to be. Just think of her as a spiritual tourist and you as her devout tour guide. You’re responsible to figuring out what she’ll enjoy and getting her there on time. Along the way you’ll explain the sights and teach her how to fit in. After all – you don’t want her to startle the natives. 😉

And be pushy. That’s how Baptists show they care. It’s like a firm handshake or a bearhug with backslap.
I don’t believe that being “pushy” is the way. That turns a lot of people off. Be careful, but continue to share w/her. I like the “spiritual tourist” take on things though.
 
Bella, a fuller description of a Catholic mystic would be: One who through deep interior conversion by the grace of God in Christ experiences (not just assents to in Faith) in varying degrees the depth of God’s Trinitarian presence in his or her soul. This experience of the Divine Indwelling may or may not give rise to the occasional gift of God allowing one a glimpse into a future event. Some true mystics would be such as St. Teresa of Jesus, St. John of the Cross, St. Faustina, St. Padre Pio and Bl. Elizabeth of the Trinity.
Yes, I should of gone more into depth. Don’t forget Anne Catherine Emmerick who had the gift of seeing Our Lord’s Passion in every detail…sorry :o
 
A true baptist Church is a church that is patterned after the first centuary churches started by the apostles and that teaches the truth of the Gospel. That means the it must be independant of any higher governing body, however that does mean that it can not have a membership in a organization of other Baptist Churches for fellowship. People that belong to these church are know as Regular Baptists.
Well you started off describing the Catholic Church until you got to the governing body thing.

Are you a Particular Baptist? I noticed in an earlier post that you mentioned predestination which is unusual in the major Baptist churches as the SBC and and Independant Baptist churches tend to follow a theology that blends Calvinism and Armanism(sp?). If you are that’s interesting as I had thought all of the Particulars to have been absorbed into the SBC in the 1800’s.
 
Well you started off describing the Catholic Church until you got to the governing body thing.

Are you a Particular Baptist? I noticed in an earlier post that you mentioned predestination which is unusual in the major Baptist churches as the SBC and and Independant Baptist churches tend to follow a theology that blends Calvinism and Armanism(sp?). If you are that’s interesting as I had thought all of the Particulars to have been absorbed into the SBC in the 1800’s.
Don’t forget the “Hardshell” Primitive Baptist who still hold to predestination.
WP
 
I don’t believe that being “pushy” is the way. That turns a lot of people off. Be careful, but continue to share w/her. I like the “spiritual tourist” take on things though.
True, being pushy does put alot of people off, but it doesn’t put off Baptists. I think of Baptists as the “big friendly dogs” of the body of Christ. If you don’t play rough with a big friendly dog, or be theologicaly pushy with Baptists, you’re not enjoying them as God meant them to be enjoyed. I’m not saying to be pushy with everyone – just be pushy with those rolly-polly Baptists.
 
In my case, I invite them to come to Mass with me on one of the quieter days during the week (not on Sunday) and then take them out for coffee or lunch afterwards.

I actually had one person tell me, “Oh, this isn’t the real Catholic Church, because at the real Catholic Church they worship Mary, but here, it was all about Jesus. And wow - so much Bible reading!! Real Catholics don’t read the Bible, you know.”

I just shook my head and didn’t say anything at the time - but I have brought her back a few times, and she is definitely thawing out - she has figured out that this is actually the real Catholic Church, and that the one she was talking about doesn’t actually exist anywhere. But it was best to let her figure that out for herself, rather than get into a debate over it.
Hee hee! I’ve had that experience. Someone who didn’t know I was Catholic told me once that Catholics worship Mary. I said, well, I’m Catholic, and then I explained how we ask Mary to intercede for us with Christ. She thought that sounded pretty reasonable. Then she told me it must be a different kind of Catholic who worships Mary, because she knew she’d learned that somewhere. sigh 🙂
 
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