Baptists vs. Catholicism

[Sean_Boyle]

Please cite the Pauline verse you believe contradicts James. Paul’s writing can not contradict the writing of James in scripture. The point being made to you, was either Paul and James are in conflict or your understanding of one or both of the writers is.

Please explain where I have ever “disdained” Jesus’ parables.

Here it is! From post #105

Originally Posted by FightingFat forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
For example, in the parable of the talents, Jesus teaches that those who increased their talents with good works were saved. Those who buried their talents by not doing good works were condemned (Matt 25:14-30).

Pastor Jim: Actually, that’s just a parable

The response “Actually, that’s just a parable” shows your distain for this mere parable which of course is still a part of scripture. No part of scripture is more important than another.

The distain is there! No other distinction can be drawn by a rational person. Your chose of words makes that clear. Now if you meant something else, then use different wording.

 

[trrocks03]

Here it is! From post #105

Originally Posted by FightingFat forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
For example, in the parable of the talents, Jesus teaches that those who increased their talents with good works were saved. Those who buried their talents by not doing good works were condemned (Matt 25:14-30).

Pastor Jim: Actually, that’s just a parable

The response “Actually, that’s just a parable” shows your distain for this mere parable which of course is still a part of scripture. No part of scripture is more important than another.

The distain is there! No other distinction can be drawn by a rational person. Your chose of words makes that clear. Now if you meant something else, then use different wording.

Despite the hard evidence you provide, the response will be in that nature of “my bible doesn’t say that”.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

Despite the hard evidence you provide, the response will be in that nature of “my bible doesn’t say that”.

In unison we will all then say, “what chapter and verse?”

 

[ellammcg]

Most Baptists do not believe everyone else will go to hell, and some Catholics do believe that everyone but Catholics will go to hell. This is actually something both groups have in common.

I don’t know the majority Catholic position, or even what all Baptists believe, but I can tell you my (Baptist) church believes that if you were not saved in a scriptural, local New Testament church-you are not saved (ESPECIALLY Catholics). Ergo, you are going straight to hell unless you get right with Jesus. (My husband and I may be the only ones that believe differently.)

 

[Pixie_Dust]

I don’t know the majority Catholic position, or even what all Baptists believe, but I can tell you my (Baptist) church believes that if you were not saved in a scriptural, local New Testament church-you are not saved (ESPECIALLY Catholics). Ergo, you are going straight to hell unless you get right with Jesus. (My husband and I may be the only ones that believe differently.)

Baptists, it seems to me, believe that if you have asked Jesus into your heart and know him personally as your Lord and Saviour you are saved. Unless you’re Catholic. I asked some Baptists once why, if Catholics believe in their hearts that Jesus is Lord, and every Sunday they confess with their mouths the Lord Jesus, they don’t believe Catholics are saved. The response I got? Apparently, Catholics don’t believe in the same Jesus.

One of the things that really appealed to me about Catholicism vs the Baptist faith is that if you say you are a Christian, a Catholic believes you and loves you as a sister/brother in Christ. A Baptist doesn’t extend the same grace, especially if you’re a member of any denomination that practices paedobaptism, not just Catholic.

 

[pnewton]

Baptists, it seems to me, believe that if you have asked Jesus into your heart and know him personally as your Lord and Saviour you are saved. Unless you’re Catholic. I asked some Baptists once why, if Catholics believe in their hearts that Jesus is Lord, and every Sunday they confess with their mouths the Lord Jesus, they don’t believe Catholics are saved.

That is the same line of reasoning I use on other boards. Often the most that can be accomplished is a lessening of hostilities.

 

[ellammcg]

Apparently, Catholics don’t believe in the same Jesus.

One of the things that really appealed to me about Catholicism vs the Baptist faith is that if you say you are a Christian, a Catholic believes you and loves you as a sister/brother in Christ. A Baptist doesn’t extend the same grace, especially if you’re a member of any denomination that practices paedobaptism, not just Catholic.

Our Wednesday visiting preacher was the president of one of seminaries. The first ten minutes of his message involved making fun of Catholics and included going on about the book of Romans being a warning from Paul to correct the Catholic heresy infiltrating the church.

I had to get rebaptized when I joined this church (years ago) because I was baptized as an infant in the Episcopal church and “that didn’t count”.

 

[guanophore]

Please cite the Pauline verse you believe contradicts James.

It is not the “verse” that contradicts, but your interpretation of it.

No it has not. Please explain where I have ever “disdained” Jesus’ parables.

That is how it came across when you said “it’s just a parable”.

 

[guanophore]

**Is it my imagination or is Pastor Jim continuing to ask the same questions over and over again in here irregardless of our answers to him? **

This is my observation too. Except that I don’t think irregardless is a real word.

 

[peary]

This is my observation too. Except that I don’t think irregardless is a real word.

**irregardless **(adv.), regardless; a combination of irrespective and regardless, sometimes used humorously. (def.4, dictionary.com)

 

[MrS]

Our Wednesday visiting preacher was the president of one of seminaries. The first ten minutes of his message involved making fun of Catholics and included going on about the book of Romans being a warning from Paul to correct the Catholic heresy infiltrating the church.

I had to get rebaptized when I joined this church (years ago) because I was baptized as an infant in the Episcopal church and “that didn’t count”.

that is too bad… especially coming from a “man of the cloth”.

But I have heard lots of that over the years… and lots of good natured stuff too.

My son’s Baptist Pastor was a very nice and gentle man when ever I was around… but I gotta think he was a bit “opposed” to us Catholics. So I often asked him a question or two to ingage in conversation. I think he stayed away from discussion in reference to my son… although one time when he was up on a ladder I said “…hey Pastor, if you want to get to heaven, forget the ladder and join the Catholic Church…”

I though he was going to fall for sure

.

 

[fbl9]

Hi all…for pastorjim me thinks the answers you seek are the ones you seek to destroy…

 

[Camron]

epist << I would like to know what Baptists believe so that I might use “sleight of hand” in my presentations to show the boys plus this father why Catholicism is different and true. >>

You probably want to look up a standard "baptist confession of faith" (there are several of these) to get the technical theology down, but in short off the top of my head, the main differences are:

Baptists believe in

(1) Scripture alone (66 books, 39 OT, 27 NT) as authority for all doctrine and practice, and the freedom of the individual to interpret it

(2) salvation or justification is by faith alone, although good works “will follow” if the believer is sincere and has “true faith”

(3) adult or believer’s baptism as a sign or symbol of having faith (baptism itself does not save you or do anything but get you wet)

(4) symbolic Lord’s Supper or communion of bread (or crackers) and grape juice (most do not use wine) celebrated irregularly (normally not weekly I understand in most baptist churches)

(5) they have no sacraments, but only the above two “ordinances” done in obedience to Christ’s command, they are not necessary for salvation

(6) many of them believe in “once saved, always saved” or “eternal security” or “perseverance of the saints” (a person once truly saved, cannot fall away from salvation)

(7) a few of them are fully Reformed (all five points of Calvinism) and are called "Reformed Baptists" (Calvin himself accepted infant baptism, Reformed Baptists do not)

(8) a few of them worship on the seventh-day sabbath and are called "Seventh-day Baptists"

(9) many of them are independent churches, the “highest authority” is their own pastor, and the congregation “elects” their own pastor

(10) others belong to larger denomination groups such as the "Southern Baptist Convention"

(11) the three original doctrinal variations are

(a) “Free and General Baptists” e.g.
----American Baptist Association
----Free Will Baptist Church
----General Association of General Baptists
----General Conference of the Evangelical Baptist Church, Inc.
----General Six-Principle Baptists
----National Association of Free Will Baptists

(b) “Strict and Particular Baptists” e.g.
----American Baptist Churches
----Association of Grace Baptist Churches
----Association of Regular Baptist Churches
----Baptist Bible Fellowship International
----Baptist General Conference
----Continental Baptist Churches
----Grace Baptist Assembly
----National Primitive Baptist Convention of the U.S.A.
----North American Baptist Conference
----Southern Baptist Convention

(c) “Seventh-day Baptists”

For the most part, all of these would accept the Apostles or Nicene Creed, so we have the same God (Trinity, one God in Three Divine Persons) and Jesus Christ (God and man in one Divine Person), with his atonement and death, bodily resurrection, and ascension into heaven.

Phil P

Excellent answer!

Very well researched too. I will keep this in my favorites for future reference.

 

[jmcrae]

Our Wednesday visiting preacher was the president of one of seminaries. The first ten minutes of his message involved making fun of Catholics and included going on about the book of Romans being a warning from Paul to correct the Catholic heresy infiltrating the church.

I must admit, I have never encountered a Catholic priest who had enough time on his hands to go to the kind of trouble it must be, to make up ten minutes’ worth of jokes about someone else’s religion.

I had to get rebaptized when I joined this church (years ago) because I was baptized as an infant in the Episcopal church and “that didn’t count”.

The ironic thing is, since you were baptized into God’s family when you were a baby, all that happened with the Baptists was that you got rather wet - God loved you from the very beginning, and accepted you into His family when you were baptized as a baby.

 

[ellammcg]

The ironic thing is, since you were baptized into God’s family when you were a baby, all that happened with the Baptists was that you got rather wet - God loved you from the very beginning, and accepted you into His family when you were baptized as a baby.

And really upset my mother

There is something I find a little troubling, if I were to become Catholic don’t I have to confess all mortal sins from the time I was baptized? I hope I am wrong.

 

[jmcrae]

And really upset my mother

I don’t doubt it. I’d be upset.

There is something I find a little troubling, if I were to become Catholic don’t I have to confess all mortal sins from the time I was baptized? I hope I am wrong.

After a period of preparation, and when you are ready to do it (and nobody is ever going to make you come into the Church before you are good and ready), yes, you will confess all of your mortal sins from the time of your infant baptism. I did this, too, when I was coming into the Church.

I was completely freaked out by the idea of it, because I had very little idea of what to expect - unlike everything else in the Catholic Church, there was no way to watch someone else do it, first, to see what happens to them - but once I got in there, I was completely fine - I mean, I got the ritual all mixed up and had no idea how to say my prayers, and I forgot half the stuff I wanted to confess, but the priest was really kind to me, and it was (mostly) a perfectly painless experience.

I was nervous, of course, and of course I had to go in again because I forgot a whole bunch of stuff that I had wanted to confess, but he was very understanding, both times.

It was actually a very liberating experience, for me - I actually like going to Confession - or rather, what I like is, coming out of Confession, with all my sins washed away.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

It was actually a very liberating experience, for me - I actually like going to Confession - or rather, what I like is, coming out of Confession, with all my sins washed away.

Hearing the words, “By the authority of Jesus Christ, I absolve you of all your sins” I actually felt myself physically relax and the weight of my guilt lifted from me. Something about actually hearing those words instead of just thinking them is a wonderful, cleansing experience. As a Baptist there was a continual struggle with, “I can’t believe I did ___, I must not really be saved,” and I’d pray again for God to forgive me of my sins and to be Lord of my life. As a Catholic, I have so much more assurance because I know that I have been saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved. I can keep myself focused on Christ instead of my own shortcomings.

 

[fbl9]

And really upset my mother

There is something I find a little troubling, if I were to become Catholic don’t I have to confess all mortal sins from the time I was baptized? I hope I am wrong.

yes one is required to confess all their mortal sins…however though we are humans and our minds are feeble in the memory department at times,rest assured though,the Holy Spirit will give you a tap on the shoulder and remind you of the sins you forgotten about. then like another poster stated go back again.now these forgotten sins are forgiven already (due to the sincerity of your repentence) but the hole left is not healed so that is why the need of going for reconcillation again…if you deliberately did not confess a sin then it is unforgiven.

 

[CentralFLJames]

And really upset my mother

There is something I find a little troubling, if I were to become Catholic don’t I have to confess all mortal sins from the time I was baptized? I hope I am wrong.

I hate to tell you this but you can only get baptised one time. Baptism leaves a permanent mark on the soul and configures it for Christ. A 2nd or multiple baptism is a sacrilege.

Not even all baptisms administered by heretics or schismatics is invalid. On the contrary, if the proper matter and form be used and the one conferring the sacrament really “intends to perform what the Church performs” the baptism is undoubtedly valid.

If it be uncertain whether the convert’s baptism was valid or not, then he is to be baptized conditionally. In such cases the ritual is: “If thou art not yet baptized, then I baptize thee in the name”, etc.

The practical method of reconciling heretics with the Church is as follows:-- If baptism be conferred** absolutely**, the convert is to make no abjuration or profession of faith, nor is he to make a confession of his sins and receive absolution, because the sacrament of regeneration washes away his past offences. If his baptism is to be conditional, he must first make an abjuration of his errors, or a profession of faith, then receive the conditional baptism, and lastly make a sacramental confession followed by conditional absolution. If the convert’s former baptism was judged to be certainly valid, he is only to make the abjuration or the profession of faith and receive absolution from the censures he may have incurred (Excerpta Rit. Rom., 1878).

More here: newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm#VII

James

 

[sodak]

Please cite the Pauline verse you believe contradicts James.

It was your verse. Abraham being saved by his faith. James says he was justified by his works. The Catholic Church can show why this is not a contradiction.

No it has not. Please explain where I have ever “disdained” Jesus’ parables.

When you talked about it “just” being a parable.

Apologies to all. I got a ways behind, and didn’t see that others have already answered these several times already.