Barack Obama's group therapy

[Gorillaman]

There are plenty of and when Republicans are attacked. That’s why your complaint has little basis. “Forum elder” and “forum master” has to do with length of time and number of posts…nothing more. There are liberal Democrats with the same status.

Honestly, I love you. Your posts are great fun. But, it just sounds like a little kid complaining about feelings, rather than engaging in the discussion. It’s all good though. We welcome kids, too.

Ah man I thought I was kinda onto something.

 

[meltzerboy]

Correct. It is a new human being with different DNA than either parent. That is why it is not the same as a somatic cell. As far as threads, I will post where I wish to post, thank you.

No need to take offense, Robert. I just meant that the current thread has been diverted enough.

 

[Gorillaman]

No need to take offense, Robert. I just meant that the current thread has been diverted enough.

He’s gettin cranky

 

[meltzerboy]

He’s gettin cranky

I blame it on the heat! (The temperature, not the Miami Heat.)

 

[meltzerboy]

Of course he/she is. What else could they be?

Short answer: the potential to become a conscious human being with a brain, heart, and other organs. But not a human being yet or a fetus.

 

[Gorillaman]

I blame it on the heat! (The temperature, not the Miami Heat.)

Shoooo. Does it get hot in ny? I’m on the other side of the world down here in south Texas…now HERE it’s hot. Ha.

 

[rlg94086]

He’s gettin cranky

I blame it on the heat! (The temperature, not the Miami Heat.)

It is actually sunny today. We got into the low 80s today! Brutal!

 

[meltzerboy]

Shoooo. Does it get hot in ny? I’m on the other side of the world down here in south Texas…now HERE it’s hot. Ha.

My last response on this thread is shameless advertising: see my thread on Heat Wave Reaches New York City. Yes, New York can be oppressive: high 90’s today and tomorrow.

 

[rlg94086]

Short answer: the potential to become a conscious human being with a brain, heart, and other organs. But not a human being yet or a fetus.

You have yet to say when they become human…

 

[Mickey]

Short answer: the potential to become a conscious human being

So for you…life does not begin at conception.

You say that “potential” begins at conception.

How very sad.

 

[estesbob]

I blame it on the heat! (The temperature, not the Miami Heat.)

It was so cool here this evening i had to put a sweatshirt on when I sat on the porch!

 

[estesbob]

Shoooo. Does it get hot in ny? I’m on the other side of the world down here in south Texas…now HERE it’s hot. Ha.

I lived in Houston for 30 years. i know exactly what you are talking about!

 

[Suudy]

It is actually sunny today. We got into the low 80s today! Brutal!

Phew! I’m glad I’m not you! Just a couple of hundred miles north we were melting with 72 (in June!).

 

[meltzerboy]

So for you…life does not begin at conception.

You say that “potential” begins at conception.

How very sad.

Judaism does not accord the full status of human personhood to the embryo or the fetus. This is based on two passages from Genesis: G-d’s fashioning of Adam’s body out of clay followed by His infusion of Adam’s soul into his body, and also the breath (that is, soul) of the ocean hovering over the waters. That is not to say Judaism takes abortion lightly or approves of abortion on demand, but it does make allowances for the mother’s life and health, which is largely based on the notion of the unborn child in this circumstance described as the “pursuer” (rodef), which is discussed in the Talmud.

 

[meltzerboy]

You have yet to say when they become human…

Robert, please key in Developmental Biology Online: When does Human Life Begin? You’ll find that the scientific view is divided according to several perspectives: metabolic, genetic, embryological, neurological. You’ll also discover many religious and philosophical perspectives, as well as changes in defining the beginning of human life within the Catholic Church itself throughout its history. A very informative and fascinating article.

 

[rlg94086]

Robert, please key in Developmental Biology Online: When does Human Life Begin? You’ll find that the scientific view is divided according to several perspectives: metabolic, genetic, embryological, neurological. You’ll also discover many religious and philosophical perspectives, as well as changes in defining the beginning of human life within the Catholic Church itself throughout its history. A very informative and fascinating article.

Which of those “scientific” views claim that a zygote doesn’t have human DNA, distinctive from its parents? Which of the “scientific” views claims that a zygote is not a distinct, living, being?

I’m not particularly interested in the twisting of basic science using philosophical methods. Scientists who determine that a human comes into being when the cortex is developed, for example, are making arbitrary, philosophical decisions. Their conclusions are unscientific and, therefore, unimportant to the debate at hand. Typically, they are driven by a personal agenda.

Btw…I noticed YOU still didn’t answer the question, even in your comment about what Judaism teaches. Unsure?

 

[rlg94086]

Judaism does not accord the** full status of human personhood** to the embryo or the fetus. This is based on two passages from Genesis: G-d’s fashioning of Adam’s body out of clay followed by His infusion of Adam’s soul into his body, and also the breath (that is, soul) of the ocean hovering over the waters. That is not to say Judaism takes abortion lightly or approves of abortion on demand, but it does make allowances for the mother’s life and health, which is largely based on the notion of the unborn child in this circumstance described as the “pursuer” (rodef), which is discussed in the Talmud.

Ah…there it is again. The “full status of human personhood.” Indeed. I don’t know of anyone who believes in giving a zygote the right to free speech or gun ownership.

The basic right of an innocent human being to not be killed would be nice. Amazingly, it is illegal to kill a Bald Eagle’s egg (or at least it was…not sure if the law changed)…even if it is unknown whether it is fertilized or not. Can’t we at least afford a human zygote the right to live?

 

[meltzerboy]

Which of those “scientific” views claim that a zygote doesn’t have human DNA, distinctive from its parents? Which of the “scientific” views claims that a zygote is not a distinct, living, being?

I’m not particularly interested in the twisting of basic science using philosophical methods. Scientists who determine that a human comes into being when the cortex is developed, for example, are making arbitrary, philosophical decisions. Their conclusions are unscientific and, therefore, unimportant to the debate at hand. Typically, they are driven by a personal agenda.

Btw…I noticed YOU still didn’t answer the question, even in your comment about what Judaism teaches. Unsure?

What you seem to be saying is that scientists who don’t agree with your viewpoint, based on your faith, are arbitrary, philosophical, agenda-driven, and unscientific. However, those who do agree with your moral and religious viewpoint are scientific. Your frame of reference is your own religious perspective, and you are unwilling or unable to even consider other scientific or religious perspectives. And that’s fine, but don’t resort to scientific explanations then. Similar to religion and philosophy, science is not uniform in its beliefs, findings must be interpreted, and the whole nature of science involves changing ideas.

 

[Portrait]

Robert, please key in Developmental Biology Online: When does Human Life Begin? You’ll find that the scientific view is divided according to several perspectives: metabolic, genetic, embryological, neurological. You’ll also discover many religious and philosophical perspectives, as well as changes in defining the beginning of human life within the Catholic Church itself throughout its history. A very informative and fascinating article.

Dear meltzerboy,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

The soul is present the moment the active and passive principles of germination coalece to form a definite entity. Therefore, dear friend, Catholics say that from the moment of conception the soul is present. Indeed, our very doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary implies this, for the Church teaches that from the moment of her conception her soul was preserved immaculate, or free from the taint of original or inherited sin. Her soul, therefore was created by God at the moment of her conception and long before human activity in the sense of discernible physical movement. In St. Luke’s Gospel we read that, when Mary vistited her cousin Elizabeth, the latter cried, “For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the child in my womb leaped for joy” (St. Luke 1: 44). Thus, even prior to his birth, St. John the Baptist was able to know by revelation of the presence of the also yet unborn Christ. Now, dear friend, the souls of others are likewise brought into existence at the very moment of their conception. The unborn child possesses and ‘earthly existence’ every bit as much as the child lying in its cot or romping in the streets. It is a living human being from the very moment of conception.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[Mickey]

Judaism does not accord the full status of human personhood to the embryo or the fetus.

Does this mean that Judaism does not consider the newly conceived child to be completely human?!? That is disturbing.

**I cannot bring myself to speak of the many virgins who daily fall and are lost to the bosom of the Church, their mother . . . Some go so far as to take potions, that they may insure barrenness, and thus murder human beings almost before their conception. Some, when they find themselves with child through their sin, use drugs to procure abortion, and when, as often happens, they die with their offspring, they enter the lower world laden with the guilt not only of adultery against Christ but also of suicide and child murder. **
(396 AD Jerome Letters 22:13).