bartholomew-to-reinvigorate-dialogue-with-catholics

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CopticChristian said:
Mickey,

The confessor for the Roman is not necessarily a relationship with a person but a Sacrament. I believe that the best possible model would be to have the same confessor, and I do, however I would imagine that there are those that partake of the Sacrament of Reconcilliation with different confessors. My priest is my friend and answers questions outside the Sacrament however the notion of spiritual father is somewhat differently percieved, I would say.
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That was not my question. I understand the Mysteries (Sacraments).

So you are not Coptic Catholic? You are Roman Catholic?
 
Mickey said:
That was not my question. I understand the Mysteries (Sacraments).

So you are not Coptic Catholic? You are Roman Catholic?
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Mickey,

Rome is East/West.

Coptic Catholic is a rite in the Roman Catholic Church
 
Mickey said:
It has been answered multiple times. Perhaps you should read the thread.
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Your psyche must be broken but I don’t mind if you call me ignorant. There are many things I just don’t get.:nope:

Peace!!!
 
Mickey said:
My psyche is fine (I hope :o)…and I did not call you ignorant.

Slava Isusu Christu!

Christ is Born!
Glorify Him!
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Didn’t say you called me ignorant but it would make more sense than suggesting I do something I have alread done.

Peace Bro!!!
 
Mickey said:
No Rome is the Western Church.
Uh…no. If I remember correctly during my time in the Byzantine Catholic Church…there are no rites…there are 22 different sui juris Churches.

So I will ask again.

Are you in the Roman Catholic Church or the Coptic Catholic Church?
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Mickey,

provide me the insight that your question, having been answered, has to do with Bartholomew-to-invigorate-dialogue-with-catholics…

Roman, sui juris Churches…🙂
 
CopticChristian said:
provide me the insight that your question, having been answered, has to do with Bartholomew-to-invigorate-dialogue-with-catholics…
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Nothing. In fact, the last few pages have nothing to do with the topic…and it is morphing once again into another birth control thread. :rolleyes:
CopticChristian said:
Roman
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Ah…so you are Roman Catholic…that clarifies some things. Why do you call yourself Coptic Christian?
 
Mickey said:
Really? Source? I have seen some instances regarding condom use as a matter of economia…but I have not heard that all ABC is now permitted.
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Who said “all”?
The fact is that if condoms, a form of ABC, are allowed, then it cannot be said that artificial birth control is prohibited in the EOC.
 
Originally Posted by dvdjs
… there is this quotation from the EP
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Cavaradossi said:
What a fine thing indeed that the Ecumenical Patriarch is not a Pope…
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Mickey said:
Thank God he is not an infallible supreme promulgator.
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Well, the quotes in the Chron aren’t exactly ex cathedra statements. But really it’s too bad that the EP is not infallible; then we would might be spared such mixed messages.

Like this too, appearing in an otherwise unequivocal piece from ROCOR:
There are many instances which one might consider which further complicate the picture. What if the life of the mother is threatened by the continuation of the pregnancy? What if the pregnancy was due to rape or incest ? The solution to these problems require great spiritual discernment and decisions must not be taken lightly. Only with the spiritual foresight and counsel of a Father Confessor can there be hope for the right decision.
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orthodoxchristian.info/pages/abortion2.htm

Is there a statement against abortion in the past century from the ROC, before the Russian depopulation crisis was becoming evident and state interest were running against the massive abortion rate in Russia?
 
dvdjs said:
Who said “all”?
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Ooh…now you are backtracking. You said,
"artificial birth control is no longer prohibited in the EOC. " Do you mean only condoms? Do you mean IUD, pills, foam? Do you mean that condoms are sometimes permitted for special circumstances as per one’s spiritual father as a matter of economia. Do you mean NFP…which can be used as a form of birth control?

Fact is…you don’t know what you mean. You are simply trying to attack the Church (as usual). And so getting back to topic…this is why there probably will not be reunion in our lifetime and beyond because of the constant vitriolic attacks and bitterness such as this…and his constant attacks on Russia and the Russian Orthodox Church. A scan of his threads will show the relentless anger, bitterness, and triumphalism…it is quite sad. Strange things coming from someone who worships in the Orthodox Church.

I am out of this thread.

And dvdjs is back on my ignore list…for the third time. :rotfl: 👋
 
Dear brother CopticChristian,

We are not a mere Rite in the Roman Catholic Church. We are a particular Church, with our own Patriarch within the Catholic communion of Churches, who adhere to the Alexandrian Rite. There might be confusion on this point because of the existence of the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem. The Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem is a continuation of the Latin Patriarchate established during the Crusades and is part of the Roman Catholic Church canonically subject to Rome. Unlike them, however, our Patriarchate (the Coptic) is not a continuation of the Latin Patriarchate of Alexandria from the Crusades. Our Church is not canonically subject to Rome, but to our own Patriarch and Synod.

I hope that helps.

Blessings,
Marduk
CopticChristian said:
Mickey,

provide me the insight that your question, having been answered, has to do with Bartholomew-to-invigorate-dialogue-with-catholics…

Roman, sui juris Churches…🙂
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Condoms are not prohibited.
Condoms are a form of ABC.
Therefore, ABC is not prohibited.

Even is all forms but one ABC remain prohibited, that one exception means that one can no longer say that ABC is prohibited.

This is what I mean and have said.
 
Dear brother MIckey,
Mickey said:
Why do you call yourself Coptic Christian?
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I’ve met Egyptians who belong to the Latin Catholic Church who refer to themselves as Coptic. To some, it seems to be an identifier of the apostolic Christian Faith in general, instead of the particular Alexandrian Tradition whose members are formally referred to as Coptic. Maybe brother CopticChristian is one such. Perhaps he can clarify.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Mickey said:
… this is why there probably will not be reunion in our lifetime and beyond because of the constant vitriolic attacks and bitterness such as this. And his constant attacks on Russia and the Russian Orthodox Church. A scan of his threads will show the relentless anger, bitterness, and triumphalism…it is quite sad.
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Triumphalism?
“Russia will convert the world”. The truth is that Russia, and the ROC have huge problems that need to be fixed. Just as we all do. These problems will not be fixed unless they are honestly faced.

The biggest barrier to reunion is the lack of desire to have reunion. That is squarely an EOrthodox issue, as the CC already invites properly disposed Orthodox to communion.

The lack of reciprocity is hard to fathom. I heard today in an OCA parish, that a Dean in the OCA has a large cohort of OOs that he considers “Orthodox” and receives at communion. Of course, this Dean is sweeping the findings of an Ecumenical Council under the rug. Wonder if he also communes Catholics against whom there has been no such conciliar finding?

Anger?
Ignore list?
 
Dear brother dvdjs,

I feel I need to side with our Orthodox brethren on this one. That ABC is prohibited is the rule in Orthodoxy. It is permitted under oikonomia in very particular circumstances, under the guidance of a confessor, but as a general rule, it is indeed prohibited.

To say it is not prohibited implies that anyone can use it at their own discretion. I’m sure you know that is not true in Orthodoxy.

Blessings,
Marduk
dvdjs said:
Condoms are not prohibited.
Condoms are a form of ABC.
Therefore, ABC is not prohibited.

Even is all forms but one ABC remain prohibited, that one exception means that one can no longer say that ABC is prohibited.

This is what I mean and have said.
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mardukm said:
Dear brother dvdjs,

I feel I need to side with our Orthodox brethren on this one. That ABC is prohibited is the rule in Orthodoxy. It is permitted under oikonomia in very particular circumstances, under the guidance of a confessor, but as a general rule, it is indeed prohibited.

To say it is not prohibited implies that anyone can use it at their own discretion. I’m sure you know that is not true in Orthodoxy.

Blessings,
Marduk
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It would be great if we could agree that “prohibited” means “prohibited”, rather than simply frowned upon but allowed if one’s confessor finds the reasons for it acceptable.

As to the particularity of the reasons: do we have data on this?
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
At this time I am convinced that reunion between us in this life is impossible.
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Somehow this seems both pessimistic and anti-scriptural. The Holy Word tells us that “all things are possible with God”. Are you ruling out the ability of God to act in the hearts of humankind?

The Patriarchs will not recognise the Pope’s claim to universal authority and power and the Pope will not concede his claim to universal power and authoirty. And I doubt the creed in the west will ever have teh fillioque taken from it.

I think the issue of jursidiction will take longer, but I think we are on the verge of reconciliation wtih the filoque.

agrino.org/cyberdesert/statement.htm

Pope Benedict recited the creed during the liturgy with Bartholomew in Gk. without the filoque, and there is theological discussion occurring toward unification. The Eastern Rites of the CC are not required to use this filoque, which was inserted to address a heresy that was only rampant in Western Europe.
 
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