Be Warned & Believe what you Truly Will

[onenow1]

All those who believe a hell exists are NOT in their lives, “giving it to God”.

The above is an affront to common sense Sun, our lives are in Gods hand and justice belongs to Him.

One cannot give the consequence of an unrepentant sinner to God, telling God what to do…

Anyone who believes in God, knows full well you cannot tell God, what to do.Don’t you think God, asks all of us to reflect on the eternal truth,that you can read in the verses below ?

Job 38:

1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind: 2 "Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Gird up your loins like a man, I will question you, and you shall declare to me.

4 "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding.

God Bless

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Thats too bad because we have had a full 3 weeks to look for evidence which would suggest
God designed and built an eternal torture chamber.

Its too bad because all the suggested evidence clearly shows the idea or word hell is a hellish
existence on earth for the selfish, or self absorbed individual.

Firming up the realities in Post 211 by myself:

If one.experience’s upset, joy, ect ect…one cannot be a hypocrite “giving it to God” and then turn around the SAME DAY…and REFUSE to free themselves from the ill will of revenge
telling God what to do .in the event of an obstinate sinners final destiny.

That is NOT giving it to God.

But Hell is NOT about revenge.

You’re arguing a strawman.

Nobody ever said hell was about ill will or revenge–except you. I don’t accept that definition and the Church doesn’t either.

 

[FurtherSuntime]

If one.experience’s upset, joy, ect ect…one cannot be a hypocrite “giving it to God” and then turn around the SAME DAY…and REFUSE to free themselves from ill will in suggesting to
himself and the world that he knows how God is going to deal with the sinner

That is NOT giving it to God .

Giving it to God is what its all about… period.

 

[ahs]

Did you let this sink in?

You are arguing something that God has revealed to be true. People who are unrepentant, go to hell for eternity and their will be pain.

I suggest you believe what God says. If you don’t understand at the time, its not excuse for you to disbelieve. We are called to have FAITH in God’s revelation. Hell is one such divine revelation.

After all, who are you to think that you understand all this better than almighty God?

God Bless

Ditto.

 

[Shike]

Violence is illogical. Any attempt to support reason in violence falls quickly into the gutter of
disordered reason where it belongs. Post #217

Some violence is necessary. For instance: self-defense. And sometimes violence is a necessary consequence, that once chosen, cannot be undone!

Torture on earth is without any defence in reason.

Eternal torture is without any defence in reason as well.

Torture is a violent measure. Torture defines violence.

Your view that hell is some kind of eternal torture chamber is misguided because you attribute some kind of external agency torturing the person in hell. The whole point is that it is chosen. Right now you are shadowboxing. You are fighting a straw-man conception of hell.

And I appreciate the effort in your chain of reasoning in post #217, the only problem is that it doesn’t make much sense. And I don’t think it is my fault either. Please rewrite your train of thought on how a belief in hell necessitates ill-will towards humanity or a concrete individual–and make it clear and concise.

When I say that the existence of hell is logically necessary it is predicated upon two premises. But you can deny either of them if you’d like: the first is the nature of free-will, and the second is the nature of God’s love.

And since you failed to substantiate your historical claim about the belief in hell and ill-will with historical evidence… I will assume you don’t have any and that you concede that you overstepped your bounds in the “excitement” of discussion.

Ciao,
Michael

 

[Shike]

If one.experience’s upset, joy, ect ect…one cannot be a hypocrite “giving it to God” and then turn around the SAME DAY…and REFUSE to free themselves from ill will in suggesting to
himself and the world that he knows how God is going to deal with the sinner

That is NOT giving it to God .

Giving it to God is what its all about… period.

And you are correct!
And the hypocrite you describe is hypocritical, surely!

But the belief in hell doesn’t have to lead the believer to condemn anyone as going there… that, as you rightly put it, is God’s job.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

If one.experience’s upset, joy, ect ect…one cannot be a hypocrite “giving it to God” and then turn around the SAME DAY…and REFUSE to free themselves from ill will in suggesting to
himself and the world that he knows how God is going to deal with the sinner

That is NOT giving it to God .

Giving it to God is what its all about… period.

But Hell is NOT about OUR personal ‘ill will’ to others.

And Hell is not a human invention.

And Hell is not something that we are demanding God ‘give to others’.

Hell is a consequence of the free choice (given by God) to humans (made by God) and as such, it is something which GOD has set forth to ‘deal with the sinner’.

I’m glad that you aren’t setting yourself up to ‘judge sinners’ but then again, YOU don’t have to; God already TOLD us what the judgment was going to be. We don’t have to reinvent the wheel of HIS determination. And by obediently teaching and proclaiming God’s Gospel–GOOD NEWS–we have to proclaim ALL OF IT, even the parts you personally think are ‘bad.’

To me it looks you only want to give to God what you think he SHOULD have, not what He actually requests.

You’re like a child who is given $10 and told to go buy his mother the $10 earrings which she told you she would like for her present. . .and who instead scribbles a picture on the dining room wall with magic markers. . .having bought the markers with the $10 instead of the earrings. . .because you are SURE that your mom would rather have your incredibly talented pictures made with the markers which you had wanted for yourself but were forbidden to have precisely because you would not use them responsibly.

But the child (you) is so SURE that those ‘boring old earrings’ weren’t what Mom SHOULD have and that even after being told what to do, that YOU could make a better decision than your mom (God).

 

[FurtherSuntime]

So now…hell is not an eternal torture-torment(websters-torment… severe bodily pain)
…is that it?

You guys are going to have to make up your mind what your talking about…

so lets have it…what is

HELL

(lets make a list with all the varied opinions, so we can pick and choose the sentence…
Giving it to God… like good spiritualistic Catholic’s…?

This has gone past ridiculous

 

[ddarko]

So now…hell is not an eternal torture-torment(websters-torment… severe bodily pain)
…is that it?

You guys are going to have to make up your mind what your talking about…

so lets have it…what is

HELL

(lets make a list with all the varied opinions, so we can pick and choose the sentence…
Giving it to God… like good spiritualistic Catholic’s…?

This has gone past ridiculous

Buddy, you are getting past ridiculous.

HELL is eternal separation from God and is painful. THAT IS IT!

Nothing more to list.

God Bless

 

[onenow1]

Buddy, you are getting past ridiculous.

HELL is eternal separation from God and is painful. THAT IS IT!

Nothing more to list.

God Bless

Not to mention you cannot give anything to God ! you can only offer !

God Bless
:twocents:Onenow1

 

[Tantum_ergo]

So, FS, would you be ‘ok’ with a hell that was only eternal separation from God in the ‘mental’ sense?

Gee, I wonder how that might feel, though. Knowing that I freely chose to be separate from somebody all good and loving, through my own selfish desires and ego and free choice to reject His gifts, even with perfect knowledge of them and literally billions of opportunities to accept His love all my life.

But gee, that would only be mental agony, right? Not regret or anything so simple, but malignant, powerful, all consuming hate of all good. Freely chosen agonizing eternal hate. But only mental.

Because that is so much ‘better’ than physical agony.

Of course once we get our bodies rejoined to our souls won’t it be so kind of God to allow us to have perfect ‘untortured’ physical bodies while we suffer eternal agony of the mind, because our bodies and our souls just don’t go together, you know?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

We are not being ‘ridiculous’.

We are following Christ, and it is a narrow way. But His yoke is easy and His burden is light. Not because the crosses we carry aren’t burdensome, but because when we give up our pitiful and shrill insistence on being ‘gods’ and in trying to deny Christ’s teachings in favor of things we like ‘better’, the relief we have from becoming ‘like little children’, trusting in God, will make even the hardest cross SEEM lighter.

No, it isn’t ‘blind faith’. We keep our eyes open to see but our minds and ears and hearts open as well.

No, it isn’t ‘refusing to think for ourselves.’ It takes just as much effort to ACCEPT a teaching as it does to reject a teaching. Actually, it takes MORE effort to accept ‘hard teachings’ (like Christ’s words in John 6) than it does to reject them and walk off saying, “This is a hard teaching, who can accept it?”

But to whom should we go but to Him who has the words of everlasting life and who HIMSELF warned us of the dangers of hell which await those who reject the Living God.

 

[FurtherSuntime]

All you guys do is repeat yourselves like robots…once again

One can dilly dally around senseless violence in order to suggest progress. The end result of which
comes to support the irrational intiative… of senseless violence itself.

Senseless Violence without progress toward reason is illogical. Any attempt to support reason in violence falls quickly into the gutter of disordered reason where it belongs.

Reason cannot be used to support and excuse a violence without progress to reason

Torture on earth is without any defense in reason.

Eternal torture is without any defense in reason as well.

Torture is a violent measure. Torture absent constructive reason defines senseless violence.

Theres no way out… violence absent a constructive toward reason defines ill will

The only way to believe the non-factual suggestion of hell, is to want and agree with such. The only way one can want and agree with such is to harbor absolute ill-will, as ill will is the intent of senseless violence.

Theres no way out…ramble on if you like

 

[Tantum_ergo]

All you guys do is repeat yourselves like robots…once again

One can dilly dally around senseless violence in order to suggest progress. The end result of which
comes to support the irrational intiative… of senseless violence itself.

Senseless Violence without progress toward reason is illogical. Any attempt to support reason in violence falls quickly into the gutter of disordered reason where it belongs.

Reason cannot be used to support and excuse a violence without progress to reason

Torture on earth is without any defense in reason.

Eternal torture is without any defense in reason as well.

Torture is a violent measure. Torture absent constructive reason defines senseless violence.

Theres no way out… violence absent a constructive toward reason defines ill will

The only way to believe the non-factual suggestion of hell, is to want and agree with such. The only way one can want and agree with such is to harbor absolute ill-will, as ill will is the intent of senseless violence.

Theres no way out…ramble on if you like

Well, gee, "Ramble, robots’. . .no logical fallacies here of course.

YOU are the one accusing God of senseless violence. Not us!

You are full of speculation and imagery and not a few slurs and slams at the conception of ‘eternal torture’ as imagined by Further Suntime. … but despite the words of God Himself on the matter you don’t offer even an INKLING of what the consequence of eternal rejection of God is or should be?

That’s pretty disingenuous. You’re slamming down concept after concept but not offering anything yourself.

Here’s something. God is Truth, yes? God teaches us Truth, yes? God has spoken on the subject of Hell in both the Old and New Testament and through Sacred Tradition and this is put forth in the Magesterium of the Church, yes? Therefore, we can know Truth, yes?

So since the subject of Hell has been truthfully presented, why are you ‘going against the goad?’

 

[Shike]

So now…hell is not an eternal torture-torment(websters-torment… severe bodily pain)
…is that it?

You took my words out of context. My point was that you attribute an external agency to the definition of torture… so therefore hell could not be torture under your definition.

It sounds like you have already made up your mind, however.
So much for searching for the truth.

 

[ddarko]

All you guys do is repeat yourselves like robots…once again

One can dilly dally around senseless violence in order to suggest progress. The end result of which
comes to support the irrational intiative… of senseless violence itself.

Senseless Violence without progress toward reason is illogical. Any attempt to support reason in violence falls quickly into the gutter of disordered reason where it belongs.

Reason cannot be used to support and excuse a violence without progress to reason

Torture on earth is without any defense in reason.

Eternal torture is without any defense in reason as well.

Torture is a violent measure. Torture absent constructive reason defines senseless violence.

Theres no way out… violence absent a constructive toward reason defines ill will

The only way to believe the non-factual suggestion of hell, is to want and agree with such. The only way one can want and agree with such is to harbor absolute ill-will, as ill will is the intent of senseless violence.

Theres no way out…ramble on if you like

So let me understand this properly.

1. God has revealed that there is hell and people suffer there for eternity if they remain unrepentant
2. FurtherSuntime thinks that this is irrational

So who should we believe? YOU? or GOD?

I would be willing to debate with you if you were claiming that God has never revealed such a thing but all you have done here is to try and prove that such a thing is irrational.

Why on earth would I or ANYONE believe YOU over GOD?

God Bless