Beck: Help us restore traditional American values

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Ridgerunner said:
Yup. And caught her too. A poor decision on her part, but hey, she was over the age of 21 and married me with her eyes open. 🙂
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You’re a good guy. She’s lucky too.

And I’m old, and a grandma, and ‘safe’, so I can say that! 🙂
 
Ridgerunner said:
Ironies abound. Remember Obama speaking at Notre Dame, basically saying, in effect, “Abortion is non-negotiable. Now, what else can we agree upon.” And people BOUGHT that, and we saw people in here, even, thinking “well, we can agree on new programs for pregnant mothers, I guess. Gee, there surely must be something of his agenda we can agree with.” never realizing that he had just told them their religion means nothing to him. (never mind that this government doesn’t have any “abortion alternative” programs either, despite spending zillions on all kinds of other things, including abortion). And there are all kinds of people excusing the mosque near Ground Zero, and saying “Oh, its purpose is to bring people of various faiths together.” Never mind that its organization is the “Cordoba Institute”, an irony most wish to ignore.

But just let somebody who isn’t pro-abortion or not, himself, a Muslim encourage people to return to their (respective) faiths, whatever they might be, and let him encourage that in front of a large crowd (of various faiths) , and WHOA! We can’t have that! Why, that’s some kind of grand conspiracy to turn the U.S. into an Evangelical police state! Why, look at the size of that crowd! How scary! Never mind that the very idea of government-enforced religion is abhorrent to Evangelicals as a matter of doctrine, to the extent they share any doctrine, which isn’t very much. And never mind that Beck isn’t an Evangelical. And never mind that the Pope has drawn crowds twice as large or larger.

The “Evangelicals are about to take over” thing is so silly and so improbable that one has to look at it and figure out what the purveyors of that notion are really thinking. Well, gee, Beck is conservative, isn’t he? And so is Palin? What they lack in religious unity, they share in politicial philosophy. So, it’s all really just a way liberals have of making people think political conservatives are some kind of scary “Evangelicals” who are on the cusp of making us all get “slain in the spirit” or whatever. And, inasmuch as the left likes to slander Evangelicals anyway (well, you see, lots of them oppose abortion) it’s always good to call a crowd of conservative people a bunch of scary Evangelicals.

Just cheesy politics. Low-rent all the way.
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I am not a liberal.
I am pro-life
I am not concerned that evangelicals are taking over…any more than you may think there is a “homosexual agenda”.
I do not think the mosque should be built at ground zero. It is an insult to even think it should be anywhere near there.
I do not believe that one red cent of any taxpayer monies should fund abortion.

When the Pope visits the US…I definately expect to see every conservative evangelical and LDS at the mall or where ever he is speaking. Doubtful…but I can dream.🤷

There are conservative politics and there are liberal politics. Religion, doctrine, dogma of any one faith in our government is a bad idea.

Our President, whomever he/she is…represents “all” the people in the US.
 
Catherine_D said:
You’re a good guy. She’s lucky too.

And I’m old, and a grandma, and ‘safe’, so I can say that! 🙂
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Don’t want people to think I’m flirting with you, because it ain’t so. You’re just a fine lady, and that’s a good thing. But you need to be careful out there in the world, Catherine D.

You see, (one of my favorite things to say) a woman is like a peach. When they’re not quite ripe, they look good, but they don’t have the flavor. When they’re fully ripe is when they’re the most delightful. So be wary of those guys out there, Catherine D! Some of them might know that.

Okay, I’ll quit. Got to go out and do some outdoor work now anyway.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Don’t want people to think I’m flirting with you, because it ain’t so. You’re just a fine lady, and that’s a good thing. But you need to be careful out there in the world, Catherine D.

You see, (one of my favorite things to say) a woman is like a peach. When they’re not quite ripe, they look good, but they don’t have the flavor. When they’re fully ripe is when they’re the most delightful. So be wary of those guys out there, Catherine D! Some of them might know that.

Okay, I’ll quit. Got to go out and do some outdoor work now anyway.
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Thanks Ridge, but my time with guys passed a while ago. Now, I’m just a Grandma! And life is good, cuz I have the cutest, best grandbabies you ever saw! That’s my story & I’m sticking to it. 🙂
 
iamrefreshed said:
You stated that yourself here
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Thank you for belatedly proofreading my words for me. I had been so busy repeatedly listing reasons for Suudy I obviously was quickly typing and meant there’s a debate about whether we have a right to force the belief that human life begins @ the moment of conception in that post. Thanks again!
 
That human life begins at conception is not an opinion, but a scientifically and theologically established fact that is incontrovertable. You may choose not to believe it. You may also choose to believe that the Earth is flat and that the Sun rotates around it.
 
Hello again, CMatt. (your edited post in italics, my response in blue)
  • Hi Ishii, . I understand you feel a need to force your beliefs on this issue onto everyone else. I simply do not at this time. *
CMatt, how am I trying to “force my beliefs onto everyone else” ?? I am merely trying to convince you through reason to abandon your pro-choice stance on abortion. If I cause you to pause and reconsider or perhaps re-think your pro-choice position then I have made progress. Last I checked, I am unable to “force” my beliefs onto anyone else.

*You, Suudi, and perhaps there have been others on this thread or other threads who have brought up to me about what if we kill children to age 1? Or gas children at age 10 or 11? Much like the posters who imply I am a baby killer or that Fr Martin or I are machine gun carrying liberation theologists, to me this type of rhetoric is nothing but demagoguery to insight and inflame. *

Well, to the extent I have done that, its to show you the logical conclusion of your arguments. I think Suudy has demonstrated that much better than I can. In bringing up infanticide for example, I am not trying to say that you favor such a practice (although the president you helped elect support the practice with his vote for partial birth abortion). I am merely trying to show you how easy it is to go from tolerating the killing of the unborn to tolerating the killing of the already born. I would like you to check out this exchange between Rick Santorum and Barbara Boxer during the partial birth abortion debate(again, Barack Obama supports partial birth abortion)

nrlc.org/abortion/pba/notansweringboxersantorum.html

The exchange is too long to paste here, but the gist of it is that they go back and forth (much like some of the back and forth between some of the posters on the thread). The thing is, Santorum would just like Boxer to answer some simple questions about when a baby is “born” and therefore worthy of constitutional protection - when its 30% born? 50%? Boxer keeps dodging the questions (because to answer them would be to undermine her position in favor of partial birth abortion). Finally, Boxer ends up saying this: " I am not answering these questions! I am not answering these questions".

Her response to Santorum’s simple, straighforward questions reminds me a lot of how you have responded to my and Suudy’s and other’s questions. We have posed to you the question, "but what of slavery, which was the law of the land. Wouldn’t you be in favor of “forcing your views on everyone else” and outlawing it? You answer, “but with slavery, we knew that they were humans.” Your response is very illustrative and tells a lot about why you don’t really take the issue that seriously - you don’t really thing the unborn are humans, and therefore they should take a back seat to… welfare? The unborn are children who have a right to life from the moment of conception, and that’s not me talking, that’s the Catholic Church talking.
.

I understand though this is a difficult concept for you to grasp as I sometimes have difficulty understanding why you believe you have the right to force your beliefs on this matter onto everyone else.

There you go again, how am I forcing my belief onto everyone else?

*See we go around in circles. I truly hope though this helped further because I’m not going to continue repeating myself. Abortion shall never be eradicated fully. So we have a choice. We can continue to go around in circles for another nearly 40 yrs or we can accept the law of the land at this point and indeed move on. Move on to safe and legal but rare. Further reducing abortions by for instance getting more programs, including govt programs, in place to aide mothers after childbirth. And promoting other things to reduce a woman feeling she has no choice but to abort under her circumstances. But in the end in a democracy of plural beliefs on this matter, the choice may have to lie with her. *

In a democracy of plural beliefs, we still have laws against infanticide, child abuse, etc. even though there are those who would like to engage in those things. Oh, but that’s different you say, because the unborn is a “gray area”. Gray for you maybe, but not the Catholic church you profess to believe in. So which is it, is the Catholic church right, or is Barbara Boxer and Obama right?

*And by moving on, can we only then as a Church and as a society get the focus back to those other issues Christ so clearly espoused. The choice is ours to make. *

No, I will not “move on” as long as there are babies being aborted.

God bless and peace!

There is no peace until the legalized killing of the unborn stops.

Finally, CMatt, I would like you to answer this question above all: Who is right? Is the Catholic Church right? Or are Barbara Boxer, Pelosi, and Obama right? They can’t both be right. Which side are you on, CMatt?

Ishii
 
ishii said:
Last I checked, I am unable to “force” my beliefs onto anyone else.

Correct. If you live a democracy of plural beliefs on this issue, this is why it is as you last checked.

In bringing up infanticide for example, I am not trying to say that you favor such a practice

Good because I clearly don’t.

In a democracy of plural beliefs, we still have laws against infanticide, child abuse, etc. even though there are those who would like to engage in those things. Oh, but that’s different you say, because the unborn is a “gray area”. Gray for you maybe

No not all that gray for me. I have espoused safe rather than in the backalleys but rare. Rare for instance by putting those programs in place to aid mothers after childbirth, financially and so on. I’m pretty certain you reject this as well but do you remember “It Takes a Village”? And Julianna espouses adoption. Another way to encourage rare.

I would like you to answer this question above all: Who is right? Is the Catholic Church right? Or are Barbara Boxer, Pelosi, and Obama right? They can’t both be right. Which side are you on?

Right on what occurs at the moment of conception? Probably the Church in my belief and reasoning. Right in not forcing everyone in the land to believe and reason as the Church does as to the moment of conception? Leaning towards the others you mentioned. Which side I’m on depends on whether you are talking about what occurs at the moment of conception or whether I have the right to force my belief and reasoning on this issue onto everyone.

Sorry you don’t like my reasoning but as with Suudi, we’re going around in circles so I will not be responding to you nor anyone else on this thread on this matter further.

And even though you have said there is no peace, I still pray you find it. May peace be with you. God bless.
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Scott_Lafrance said:
That human life begins at conception is not an opinion, but a scientifically and theologically established fact that is incontrovertable. You may choose not to believe it. You may also choose to believe that the Earth is flat and that the Sun rotates around it.
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“theologically established fact”? Theology is a matter faith, not of fact. We believe that Christ rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven - that’s a matter of faith. It can’t be shown to be a fact the same way the existence of the Roman Governor who condemned Him can be shown to be a fact.

Mixing science and theology is a bad match, in my opinion.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
“theologically established fact”? Theology is a matter faith, not of fact. We believe that Christ rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven - that’s a matter of faith. It can’t be shown to be a fact the same way the existence of the Roman Governor who condemned Him can be shown to be a fact.

Mixing science and theology is a bad match, in my opinion.
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It has only been a “bad match” in the last 40 years or so.

And I should have been more clear. Science and Catholic doctrine are uninanimous on the fact that life begins at conception.
 
Julianna said:
What happened to the Beck portion of this thread?
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It may have fallen victim to the fact that lying is not (or at least shouldn’t be considered) a “traditional American value.” I don’t think anyone would really have walked away from the rally if he’d been honest and said “and there was George Washington’s inaugural address, right in front of me.”

He’s no better than the people he slams every day.
 
agnes_therese said:
It may have fallen victim to the fact that lying is not (or at least shouldn’t be considered) a “traditional American value.” I don’t think anyone would really have walked away from the rally if he’d been honest and said “and there was George Washington’s inaugural address, right in front of me.”

He’s no better than the people he slams every day.
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I don’t listen to Beck hardly at all, but I turned on his show one day last week and he was talking about this. His explanation was enough for me. He was just trying to simplify it within his speech rather than explaining the process thats required to view it.

But if you’re digging for a reason to call him a liar, there you go. You got it, it’s your ammo now, you slam him with it because you are better than the people he slams on his show right?
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
“theologically established fact”? Theology is a matter faith, not of fact. We believe that Christ rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven - that’s a matter of faith. It can’t be shown to be a fact the same way the existence of the Roman Governor who condemned Him can be shown to be a fact.

Mixing science and theology is a bad match, in my opinion.
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I live for posts like this when ppl know the difference between fact and faith. :yup: :amen:
 
Please show me where I said I’m better than anybody – I just can’t find that post!

And I didn’t dig. Sorry you don’t like the facts.
bbarrick8383 said:
I don’t listen to Beck hardly at all, but I turned on his show one day last week and he was talking about this. His explanation was enough for me. He was just trying to simplify it within his speech rather than explaining the process thats required to view it.

But if you’re digging for a reason to call him a liar, there you go. You got it, it’s your ammo now, you slam him with it because you are better than the people he slams on his show right?
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Surely you’re not saying it’s OK to lie when it’s “easier” than telling the truth?
:confused:
bbarrick8383 said:
I don’t listen to Beck hardly at all, but I turned on his show one day last week and he was talking about this. His explanation was enough for me. He was just trying to simplify it within his speech rather than explaining the process thats required to view it.

But if you’re digging for a reason to call him a liar, there you go. You got it, it’s your ammo now, you slam him with it because you are better than the people he slams on his show right?
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texasnan said:
Surely you’re not saying it’s OK to lie when it’s “easier” than telling the truth?
:confused:
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Not at all.

I just dont think this is worth judging a persons character over. Not that big of a deal to me.
 
agnes_therese said:
Please show me where I said I’m better than anybody – I just can’t find that post!

And I didn’t dig. Sorry you don’t like the facts.
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You didnt have to say it.

He was talking about holding a document, the document was in a case, someone said “You can’t hold the document.”. And all of the sudden people are screaming, “Look at Beck, he talks about values and lies about holding a document. We can’t trust him.”

Like a bunch of lemmings they fall in line and slam the one guy trying to preach something good to the world. Many are doing it, and their words show it, just because he is of a different faith. Others do it, just because they do not like his politics.
 
When did we stop being a people who looked for the good in others and start looking for reasons to find fault with them?

I think that’s a big problem in this country.
 
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