Beck: Help us restore traditional American values

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How can secession be a tool for peace? No one would take a state that declared secession seriously. No one would attack them, of course, but the rest of the country would not honor such a claim. The U.S. postal service would still operate there, they’d still have to pay taxes to the federal government, they’d still have to use U.S. currency instead of minting their own. The only way they could get around these would be if they got violent - and as you pointed out, these folks in Vermont obviously wouldn’t want to do that. Secession isn’t just illegal today; it’s also completely impractical.
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States that banded togethor with Texas, could very easily sustain themselves with an already established economy through Texas. As a tool for peace, people for the most part around here have been ignoring the slowly encroaching liberal mindset, which has taken a foothold in many cities including OKC. The talk of politics is getting louder and louder though and people are starting to realize this. As they do their fear and anger for having to deal with it and what it will bring will grow. The best option is to return the government to it’s rightful place, if that is beyond hope a peaceful secession a division, you go your way and we go ours would be the best way to go.
I did express my viewpoint with great vehemence, that’s true. But I have certainly not intended to make myself the arbiter of what the bottom line is - I’m not the “judge” here, because secession isn’t on trial. It’s already lost - legally and historically. I was just pointing that out.
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And I disagree, I do not think anyone can permanetly take the right of a people to absolve themselves from a society, that reaches to be much like that of Soddom and Gamora, just because they did so through brute force in a previous time. If I’m not mistaken, if the US government brought down brute force against the states who wanted to secede, wouldnt that be considered an unjust war? I think it should be up there with the right to persuit of happiness and all that. I guess, maybe it’s just me, it’s not something I fear. I do not feel like the central government made this country what it is, but the people of this country. It’s been done before and we can do it again, even better.
And I don’t disagree with you entirely. I absolutely agree with you on some things in your list of abuses - like the PATRIOT Act. But your listing of certain others - printing paper money, that was on your list, right? - are just plain over-the-top.
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My problem with paper money is not so much constitutional, although I do see it as such. This unbacked paper money we have to day, seems to me through inflation, becoming more and more of a burden on those at lower income levels. If I’m not mistaken it rises on average 3% a year and many people, especially at lower income levels do not get a 3% per year pay raise.
Then I stand corrected. We really do all have at least slightly different positions.
I feel strongly about it, too, but to break off from the United States would be to give up on the unborn children in New England, on the west coast, etc. As technology improves it becomes easier and easier to show everyone the humanity of the unborn, and hearts and minds have gotten better since the early 1970s. You no longer see vile bumper stickers like, “If men could get pregnant abortion would be a Sacrament,” and abortion rates have steadily but slowly declined since Roe vs. Wade. Now the pro-abortion side’s slogans dare not even speak of abortion except through euphemisms. Reason, charity, and justice are on our side - money is the only thing on theirs. I don’t think secession is the answer.
And to everyone in this discussion: please for the love of all that is good and holy, it’s secession and secede, not “succession” and “succeed.” 🙂
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I’d rather secede and protect the unborn of Oklahoma than allow the unborn of Oklahoma be murdered alongside the unborn of New England. I do not see things getting better, but I will take your word for it. I haven’t been on the pro life scene long enough to argue that.
And yes, I’m not usually a stickler for grammar or spelling, because I get things wrong sometimes. But there is a difference between secession and succession. 🙂
 
rlg94086 said:
The 2nd Amendment wasn’t established for hunting. Read the text, and you will see that the purpose was for defense.
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And one can read the extensive writings of the founding fathers that the second amendment was quite specifically for defense against tyranny, of both the foreign AND domestic varieties.
 
CMatt25 said:
And that’s legal as long as she and her followers limit their 2nd amendment remedies to hunting moose, caribou and such game and during the legal seasons.

politicususa.com/en/palin-hunter-fraud
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You obviously have no idea what the Second Amendment was established for.

“I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.” George Mason

“A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …” Richard Henry Lee

“And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …” Samuel Adams

“Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.” George Washington

“To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.” Richard Henry Lee

“Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?” Patrick Henry

“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.” Thomas Jefferson

The next is a telling quote which provides all the context one needs to know with regards to people who are pro-gun control.

**“Our main agenda is to have all guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn’t matter if you have to distort the facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed.” *Sara Brady ***
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
And one can read the extensive writings of the founding fathers that the second amendment was quite specifically for defense against tyranny, of both the foreign AND domestic varieties.
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Guns were pretty handy in keeping the slaves on the plantations and killing Indians, incidentally.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
“Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.” George Washington
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Google is your friend:

guncite.com/gc2ndbog.html

Your Sarah Brady quote is pretty funny.

saf.org/pub/rkba/general/BogusAntiGunQuotes.htm

Seriously, Sarah Brady a socialist?
From 1968 to 1970 she worked as assistant to the campaign director for the National Republican Congressional Committee. She then worked as an administrative aide, first for Mike McKevitt (R-CO) and then for Joseph J. Maraziti (R-NJ). From 1974 to 1978 Sarah Brady worked as director of administration and coordinator of field services for the Republican National Committee.[2]
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Brady
 
Good_News said:
Guns were pretty handy in keeping the slaves on the plantations and killing Indians, incidentally.
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Irrelevant

They have also kept old women alive, and fed many families. But that doesn’t mean squat to the second amendment.
 
Good_News said:
Google is your friend:

guncite.com/gc2ndbog.html

Your Sarah Brady quote is pretty funny.

saf.org/pub/rkba/general/BogusAntiGunQuotes.htm

Seriously, Sarah Brady a socialist?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Brady
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Here is the quote with source citation:

“Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed.” Sara Brady, Chairman, Handgun Control, to Sen. Howard Metzenbaum, The National Educator, January 1994, Page 3.

Source: “Views on One World Government by Leading World Figures,” The Oil Patch, May 2001, pages 2-3. Also: The American Sentinel, March 1998, page 11.

Sarah Kemp Brady,
Chairperson
Handgun Control , Inc. handguncontrol.org/
The Public Interest 1112 16Th St. , NW , Suite 530
Washington, District of Columbia 20036
United States

After years as active Republicans, Jim and Sarah Brady attended the 1996 Democratic National Convention, thanking President Clinton for his support of gun-control laws and endorsing his proposal to prohibit people convicted of domestic violence from buying handguns.

“They are looking only to protect gun owners’ quote – and I stress that – rights, because** I don’t believe gun owners have rights**. The Second Amendment has never been interpreted that way. Now I am not for taking guns away or denying guns to law-abiding citizens, but I don’t think it’s a constitutional right that they have, and every court case that’s ever come down has shown that,” she said.
 
Actually America has 202 trillions national debt according to economist in Boston University. It says the current government is hiding the true debt figure

This is too scary.:eek:

The progressives want to ruin the capitalism completely, to paralyze our society so we will yell the government to fix it, then, they will have total control of everyone’s life. They will force the redistribution of wealth then. It will become a Marxist nation.

Wake up America!
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
H
“Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed.” Sara Brady, Chairman, Handgun Control, to Sen. Howard Metzenbaum, The National Educator, January 1994, Page 3.
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Right. It is the same bogus source that is listed in the link I previously provided. You might try to dress it up a little better. Again:

guncite.com/gun_control_gcbogus_brady.html

You might check out guncite, by the way, if you haven’t
 
Good_News said:
Guns were pretty handy in keeping the slaves on the plantations and killing Indians, incidentally.
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And trains were pretty handy for shipping Jews to death camps. Which is about as relevant as what you stated above
 
estesbob said:
In trains were pretty handy for shipping Jews to death camps. Which is about as relevant as what you stated above
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Hardly.

The argument is made (with some justification) that the founders believed that private gun ownership was in some way, a check on government overreaching.

Did subsequent events prove them right? Count the number of dead slaves and Indians from private ownership of guns and compare it to the number of times that guns thwarted political usurpation in America. Did private gun ownership resolve the civil war or prevent the internment of Japanese Americans? I think not.

Private gun ownership doesn’t further political freedom. It can as often be a means to oppress as not. It does further personal freedom.

In my personal view, self-defense is a natural right, and there was an intention to confer an individual right in the Second Amendment. But that isn’t any reason to engage in the foolish notion that guns are somehow an effective defense against a modern army or that taking guns is part of some political plot to destroy capitalism. The men who fly the black helicopters aren’t too concerned about private ownership of guns. Sarah Brady is not planning a socialist revolution, and even if she were, she probably isn’t stupid enough to believe that gun confiscation is a major part of the plan.
 
Good_News said:
Did subsequent events prove them right? Count the number of dead slaves and Indians from private ownership of guns and compare it to the number of times that guns thwarted political usurpation in America. Did private gun ownership resolve the civil war or prevent the internment of Japanese Americans? I think not.
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The number of dead slaves and Indians has nothing to do with it, they would have stoned them, beat them with clubs, hung them, shot them with bows and arrows or whatever.
Private gun ownership doesn’t further political freedom. It can as often be a means to oppress as not. It does further personal freedom.
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If a group of states wanted to secede, private gun ownership would be a benefit even if just as a determent. Even in todays world, if guns didn’t matter our own troops wouldnt carry them.
 
bbarrick8383 said:
The number of dead slaves and Indians has nothing to do with it, they would have stoned them, beat them with clubs, hung them, shot them with bows and arrows or whatever.

If a group of states wanted to secede, private gun ownership would be a benefit even if just as a determent. Even in todays world, if guns didn’t matter our own troops wouldnt carry them.
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Yes, if states want to secede, guns would benefit. Do you know something the rest of us don’t know. Who is talking secession?
 
PTL said:
Actually America has 202 trillions national debt according to economist in Boston University. It says the current government is hiding the true debt figure

This is too scary.:eek:

The progressives want to ruin the capitalism completely, to paralyze our society so we will yell the government to fix it, then, they will have total control of everyone’s life. They will force the redistribution of wealth then. It will become a Marxist nation.

Wake up America!
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Code: 
		 			**[GOP Legislative Agenda for 2010](http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/09/22/gop-legislative-agenda-2010)**
Read GOP’s 'Pledge to America’

Rank-and-file House Republicans get their first glimpse at the GOP legislative agenda tonight, one day before the leadership team showcases the plan during a press conference and small business roundtable at a lumber warehouse in suburban Virginia.
The game plan is culled together from the Republicans’ “America Speaking Out” initiative, which solicited the online (name removed by moderator)ut of Americans for two months earlier in the year.
The GOP plan is divided into five, distinct policy areas: 1) the economy, 2) government spending, 3) health care, 4) government reform and 5) national security.

Read more: politics.blogs.foxnews.com/20…#ixzz10JMCO316
 
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