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Brenda_V
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ac clare oh how well said. :clapping: Great description of Redemption and Salvation.
Brenda V.
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Brenda V.
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Gabriella_San_S
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With deep respect, my dear*** “traditional”*** brothers and sisters, you may have good intentions, but you don’t realize how you wound the Heart of Jesus when you are condescending and haughty about your attachments and preferences when it comes to the Divine liturgy. The early Church community celebrated the Sacred Mysteries in humble homes or in underground catacombs-long before the great cathedrals were built!
And we must not lose sight of the humble manger, in the humble stable, in the humble cave…which was the Divine Infant’s first sublime dwelling place, for the worship of men and Magi alike. Holy Mother Church has withstood many fierce attacks from hell through the centuries, yet Jesus’ promise to Peter remains to the present day, “…the gates of hell shall not prevail against it…”( Matt 16:18) The second Vatican Council was*** not*** one of those attacks, but a great*** gift*** to the Church-men corrupt, our Holy Mother Church sanctifies.
If you need to be critical of all of the abuses of unholy men, make reparation before Our Lord in the Most Blessed Sacrament-He can be found in*** every*** Catholic Church-near or far. Peace.
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almightyservant
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Maybe I need a history lesson, because I'm not that learned in history. Weren't they, the early Christians in the catacombs because they were being persecuted? We're persecuted today, but the threat is not the same.
Yes, even so, the Magi came to worship in the poor setting, but I bet they were dressed in proper clothing and their gifts to Jesus were the finest.
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Fensterblau
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Be careful my friend, you will be called judgmental for pointing out the judgmental. At which point you can call the judgmental person who called you judgmental for pointing out their judgment a judgmental person again…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5500875&postcount=45
It’s sort of like a fun trad version of what came first the chicken or the egg…
Or perhaps you’ll be questioned on why you are posting this in this forum. Because some folks like to play the “you’re on our territory” game. And point out how you came here to discuss the topic.
At which point you can kindly take the discussion over the Novus Ordo subsection…Layman said:
Oh wait… There isn’t one.
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Gabriella_San_S
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Being persecuted is one thing and persecuting our brothers and sisters in the Body of Christ who don’t adhere to a strict traditional standard, is quite another.
I live among the Amish and their wardrobe is simple because of their detachment from the world. They worship the Living God in their simple way-with their whole life. “The more I am deprived of this world’s comforts, the more I am possessed by God”. (one of the North American Martyrs)
Was the homage that the* poor shepherds offered to the Infant King, any less worthy of God, then that of earthly royalty? Didn’t the Heavenly Hosts appear to them* in the ‘cathedral of the starry sky’?
Remember the widow’s mite and consider that whenever we’re offering our whole heart, soul, and strength in our worship-and not merely our surplus wealth-we’re honoring our King!
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mkingdomlvr
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Well, I guess you told us.
I’m sorry if you think wanting reverence in worship is “condescending and haughty”, but I won’t apologize for wanting it.
How do you think Jesus feels when people pass the tabernacle chatting about last night’s game and can’t even be bothered to even stop talking or bow-let alone genuflect! How do you think Jesus feels when the miracle of Transubstantiation is occurring on the altar and the folks in front of me are discussing where they are going for brunch? How do you think Jesus feels when the Priest is in such a hurry to start announcing the latest youth program or fund drive that he can’t even wait for the tabernacle door to be closed before he stands up and starts the announcements?
I know it hurts MY heart when I see such callous disregard and I see it every single week.
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Gabriella_San_S
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We are* impelled* to make moral judgments every moment of every day.“Condemn” is a better translation of the text you are attempting to quote, I think.
I haven’t condemned any one here in this sub-forum and I assume it’s open to* all* traditions. God bless.
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almightyservant
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So you’re saying those who hold on to meaningful Catholic tradition are persecuters? That, my friend is offensive. You are throwing out a red herrings. This is a thread about being traditional and not being a pharisee, but you’ve come to this thread to condemn.
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Gabriella_San_S
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Make Holy Hours of reparation to the Sacred Heart of Jesus if you wish to console Him!Well, I guess you told us.
I’m sorry if you think wanting reverence in worship is “condescending and haughty”, but I won’t apologize for wanting it.
How do you think Jesus feels when people pass the tabernacle chatting about last night’s game and can’t even be bothered to even stop talking or bow-let alone genuflect! How do you think Jesus feels when the miracle of Transubstantiation is occurring on the altar and the folks in front of me are discussing where they are going for brunch? How do you think Jesus feels when the Priest is in such a hurry to start announcing the latest youth program or fund drive that he can’t even wait for the tabernacle door to be closed before he stands up and starts the announcements?
I know it hurts MY heart when I see such callous disregard and I see it every single week.
Make sacrifices for poor sinners.Evangelize the ignorant;offer spiritual works of mercy.
Stop cursing the darkness…and be a light! St.John Vianney will intercede for us during this Jubilee Year for the sanctification of the priesthood-he transformed the spiritually desolate parish in Ars by his* profound* love and* personal* holiness-and so many souls were saved!
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Gabriella_San_S
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I hold onto meaningful Catholic traditions, I’m wholeheartedly devoted to my Mother, I adore Her Son immensely, I do not condemn anyone-I leave that to the Just Judge. I have come to this thread to share my heart just like you have. Should I be deprived of this privilege?
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JustaServant
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thunderballs75
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Sometimes I wonder whether it is possible to be a Catholic at all and not a Pharisee. Did Jesus have a code of Canon Law? Did Jesus have dogmatic ecumenical councils which wrote dogmatic documents? Did Jesus have Inquisitions? Did Jesus have religious orders? Did Jesus have infallible popes? Did Jesus have Cardinals? Did Jesus have Congregations of a Roman Curia? Did He impose certain fast days and Eucharistic fasts? Are we legalistic like the Pharisees???
Certainly the Church has developed, to say the least.
Certainly the Church has developed, to say the least.
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Gabriella_San_S
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Offering deep respect to my brothers and sisters is condescending? Or was my addressing them as “traditionalist”, condescending? Likewise, I can’t help but sense tones of defensiveness and rudeness from my reverent brethren.
Love and Truth are inseparable (not to mention ancient traditions) and we should take care not to scorn Jesus in each other. Peace be with you.
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CradleCath
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If you believe,as I do, that Christ guides His own Church as He promised, I’d say yeah He has all of the things you mentioned above.
As far as your last question goes…there are pharisees in every religion. And following the Law was not the problem of those who lived in Christ’s time. Considering themselves superior because they did so was the thing that made them offensive. They said their prayers in public, they wore sackcloth on the streets & made sure that people saw their almsgiving, etc., etc. They
refused to eat with the “infidels”. Their pride was not for Judaism, it was not for the fact that somehow God had chosen them to be part of the race & religion that Christ was born into, for that would have fostered humility within them.
Their were proud of** themselves** & the way they followed the law.
Since God will forgive any sin, no matter how hateful it is…if we face our sins & ask Him for that forgiveness, repent & do our best to sin no more…we can hope that He forgave the biiblical Pharisees & those who live today.
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wisdomseeker
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it is all around us. the leaders of the Church finally is coming out and speaking against the misenterpretation of theVII. it is about time.
the Church cannot go on the way it is. we must not neglect what is due to God. Jesus got very upset when He found impious men around the Temple. i hope you remember what Jesus said to them.
the House of God is to maintain accordingly and not for our own pleasure.
give to God what is of God…
we cannot in way neglect the worship of God. remember He comes first. we talk a lot about loving one another but we cannot accomplish this without first loving God. how do we love? by giving Him the proper Worship.
who are we to neglect the old? the Traditions passed on to us? what is left for us if we do this is Bible alone. this is what protestants are trying to accomplish for us.
we must not be blind sided by what is going around us. we must never forget the enemy still alive and well and he will use other religions to turn our attention from the Truth.
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jam070406
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Amen!
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wisdomseeker
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i guess you are joining protestants against the Church? listen to the Church and not hereticals movements against the Church. i wish you heard father Corapi last night.
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Middleman
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I’ve noticed that quite a bit here at Catholic Answers. It’s very unattractive and legalistic and makes the Catholic Church look like every stereotype that Protestants like to envision of us.
The Traditionalist is a step backwards in this regard. It seems to be motivated by many legalistic thinkers from my observations here;
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wisdomseeker
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God bless.
many Catholics dont realize that we are in a spiritual battle against satan and his dominion. father corapi said last night that we should never consider ourselves smarter than devil. he is so right because i think many are doing just that.
our fathers in the past fought heresies for this Faith we have today, the fight must go on with us today. we must preserve the Faith for the next generation and the next intact.
protestants are having great influence in the Catholic Church because many do not understand what Jesus gave us. protestants do not know but we should know what we have. like me, i avoid to hear anything from other faiths. i know the Truth, i need to seek no more.
father corapi said: the Bible has to be understood in light of the Church, anything else, and you will have a false Gospel. wake up Catholics.
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RyanML
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I have a priest friend who absolutely can not stand the traditional Mass or traditionalists. He says it’s all about the smells, the bells, and the pretty vestments, and we think we’re the only ones doing everything right. But the truth of the matter is that for most true traditional Catholics, the smells and the bells are just the iceing on the cake. I’ve been to quiet, traditional low Masses in simple chapels not too much bigger than my bathroom and prefered that to the Solemn High Masses in the Cathedral. The externals are nice, but it’s the substance of Catholic tradition that draws people. And I don’t think traditionalists should have the attitude that we do everything the right way while the “novus ordo church” is going to hell in a handbasket. There is much legitimate diversity in Catholic spirituality and that should be respected and both traditionalists and conservatives fall short on that one. But you can understand if we get a bit defensive practicing the Faith the way it’s been practiced for centuries and by countless saints only to have our fellow Catholics consign us to the margins of the Church and call us dirty names like “kooky” and “fanatic” behind our backs.
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