Essentially, the Pope said that, if by his usage of the phrase “faith alone,” Luther meant what the Catholic Church teaches about justification, then the phrase itself is not necessarily objectionable. Of course, the Pope never goes so far as to say that is how Luther meant it. “Faith alone” can mean a number of things, which gives rise to the Pope’s statement.
Very well stated. Although I may be labeled “Catholic” I consider myself to be part of the teachings that Christ instituted from the beginning. If you take all the labels of off the other denominations you are just left with teachings and doctrines instituted and interpreted mostly by man.
I don’t quite know what you’re getting at, but the purpose of my post there was to explain that being on the rolls of membership of the Catholic Church is not “sufficient” for salvation, such that it is “assured.” It is certainly a step, but it’s not like buying a ticket to a concert. It’s neither a “sinner’s prayer,” nor a decision to join the Catholic Church, that determines who goes to heaven. Rather, it’s a person who determines that. That person is Jesus Christ. That’s why Catholics do everything they can to be in relationship with him, including receiving his sacraments and going to Church every Sunday to thank him for dying on the cross, and it’s why they get to know his family (including his mother).
Hi dzheremi,
Ummm…the Orthodox Churches don’t. We do recognize their sacraments.
Well…absolutely not. But as a Catholic…the Eucharist is Jesus. So I’m not sure what the point is.
I will definitely pray for you as you prepare for Easter Sunday.
The point is that being Catholic, Protestant, nor Orthodox is necessary to being a Christian. It is a good thing to belong to one of these communities, but it is our union with Christ that really matters in the eternal perspective. If you believe a sinner can be reconciled to God by faith in Christ apart from being Catholic, then you may see my point.
Its possible if they obey the teaching’s of Christ. Is it possible that they ALL obey, All is possible through God. But I doubt it.
Hey…Like my religion says…I am faithful to the Holy See. But howmany Catholics are just Catholic in name only? If the CCC (841) can erroneously say that even muslims can have salvation…how can we say that our fellow non-Catholic Christians cannot?Its possible if they obey the teaching’s of Christ. Is it possible that they ALL obey, All is possible through God. But I doubt it.
But they insist that everything on their agenda is biblical. That’s the weak spot. The word “biblical” has now degenerated into yet another equivocal term that qualifies for inclusion in the category that Ravi Zacharias has referred to as “frothy God–talk.”SSTeacher;6381092:
I have issues too with the fundamental right moral agenda of Republican Christians that are quite common in America.I didn’t have any particular passages in mind. I was thinking only of the doctrinal chaos in Western Christendom that has come about as direct result of elevating the Bible to a position it was clearly never meant to occupy.
But when it comes to thinking about specifics I guess one might reflect upon the difficulties that would naturally present themselves to somebody who didn’t understand how the Bible is put together. The most obvious example that comes to my mind is denying somebody a blood transfusion and letting that person die based upon a Bible verse.
And one might take that line of thinking a little further. Consider, for example, how forcibly American Evangelicals argue for putting the Ten Commandments up on walls in schools and courthouses. Do not the Ten Commandments reflect the moral values to which all people should aspire? Many moralists, regardless of their religious affiliation, might agree. But the Decalogue is found in the Old Testament (cf. Exodus 20). So why is it that Evangelicals argue only for that particular part of the Old Testament to be extolled? Why do they not argue for the restoration of the death penalty for cursing one’s parents (cf. Exodus 21:17)? They would be quite logical to do so – and in doing so to insist that not only were they adopting a moral stance but also that what they were advocating was “biblical.”
Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Follow my drift?
Morally,
Mick
How do you know what arrangements God has made for those who through no fault of their own have never heard of Jesus Christ?
Well, then, allow me to take your assertion to its logical conclusion. Let’s suppose that a person claims to be a Christian but is not in union with the Orthodox Church, Catholic Church, or any Reform or Arminian church because he or she supposes that such a union is meaningless. How does that person live out his or her Christianity? What does Christianity of that type actually look like? As far as I can see the only remaining option is the “me, Jesus and my Bible” innovation favored by the American Evangelicals.
I never understood how the Catholic Catechism can teach that Muslims can have salvation, or Jews who reject Jesus as their Messiah can be okay with God too. It seems at times that Catholic Christians believe that those who hold to faith alone according to that apparent heretic Martin Luther… are outside the family of God, yet Muslims and Jews are in the family of God.Hey…Like my religion says…I am faithful to the Holy See. But howmany Catholics are just Catholic in name only? If the CCC (841) can erroneously say that even muslims can have salvation…how can we say that our fellow non-Catholic Christians cannot?
Too much fighting. As my late grandmother used to say…“you catch more flies with honey than vinegar”. I’m not comparing anyone to flies…but we need to treat each other as Christ would want us to. They will know you by the love you have for one another.
I basically just meant that Catholics don’t think they’re getting into heaven because of the affiliation with the Catholic Church, but because of the teachings that were given to us by Christ and which are still retained in the church.
The fact is that the CC has never said that. Some posters may…but that is not the teaching of the CC.I never understood how the Catholic Catechism can teach that Muslims can have salvation, or Jews who reject Jesus as their Messiah can be okay with God too. It seems at times that Catholic Christians believe that those who hold to faith alone according to that apparent heretic Martin Luther… are outside the family of God, yet Muslims and Jews are in the family of God.
Hey, that’s Catholic language and I thought you belong to that other One True Church. Since I’m into that wrath doctrine, I don’t see how others are okay at no fault of their own. Are sinners condemned after they hear of Jesus Christ and rrject Him? So, what gives, are you a wanna be Catholic stuck in the Orthodox Church? I’m not anti-visible institutional church. All Christians need to be in a visible church.
So please enlighten me about the CC and official teaching of the Catholic Church about Muslims and Jews who do not have faith in the Jesus Christ that we believe in. I never accepted that people are okay with God apart from faith in Christ, with the exception of children from a household of faith.The fact is that the CC has never said that. Some posters may…but that is not the teaching of the CC.
Please see the edit post that you quoted.
The Catholic Church agrees with you that Christians need to be in Church. The rub is that she claims to be the only institutionalized Church–the one Christ instituted. You clearly see the need for a Church for the salvation of souls. So your only real rub is whether the Catholic Church is the only true Church. Of course, we would say that the assertion that the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is that Church is a matter of historical fact, but faith helps, too.
It would have to be more then just hearing a name. They would have to be taught about Christ and keep an open heart and mind.