Being open to a third child

[QwertyGirl]

Worrying that you MIGHT regret not having more children at some arbitrary point in the future is not a good reason to try to have a child when there are legitimate reasons to avoid pregnancy for a time.

I only had one, by choice. Love her to death. 30 years later, I am completely content in the decisions we made to not have any more. Lots of issues factored into that decision. I cherrish my family. But I have never had a single regret about stopping after one. Families aren’t one-size-fits-all.

 

[QwertyGirl]

. I can appreciate a perspective that says that our situation includes serious reasons… but I am honestly not sure about that.

I think you just identified the issue here. It isn’t “our situation”. It is “her situation”. She is the one who will be taking the hormone shots twice a week. She is the one who will be lugging herself around for 9 months of pregnancy while taking care of two other kids. She is the one who will have her guts split apart with a c-section. She is the one who will take months to heal. And if she breastfeeds, she is the one who will be doing that. It is her hair that will probably fall out and it is she who may deal with PPD. I could go on, but I won’t. Sounds like she knows she has serious reasons to avoid pregnancy. If she has srious reasons which are as legit as the ones I outlined above, by default they should be your serious reasons, as well.

 

[Allegra]

Pregnancy is really hard on women as they get older. I’m only 35 and my first two pregnancies were easy-peasy. Now I’m on my third and frankly, it’s kicking my butt! I’m still happy about the baby, but dang, I sure wish he or she was already here! At 40, there’s a pretty good chance that she’s not into the idea of putting her body through all that again. If you feel like your family is lacking and you could support other children, maybe you might consider looking in to adoption instead? That’s one of the biggest downside to people not marrying until they are in their 30s. Being pregnant around 40 can be super rough and the chances of serious medical issues frequently arise!

 

[13pollitos]

I am 47 and just gave birth to my second bio daughter so we now a newborn and a one year old. This is after multiple miscarriages, a couple of stillbirths, and adopting 6 relative children. My adopted six are nearly grown (2 high school, 4 college or working). I hope to have a couple more, but realize at my age that is nearly impossible. For my family it has worked well. My husband is retired military so he stays home. I am in my last year of teaching. This summer we will move to a new area where my husband has gotten offered a good job with very good schedule. There is a lot to be said for trusting in God and following His lead even when it is difficult. As others have mentioned, children are a blessing. Not many wish they’d had fewer at the end of their days, but many wish they had had at least one or two more. I will say a prayer for your family.

 

[13pollitos]

Why is it the trend on CAF to use examples of parents with poor coping skills as reason to limit family size? I know neglectful parents who only have one child and those kids wish they had a sibling so they wouldn’t be so lonely. Should I start telling parents of one about these parents hoping to get them to have more kids? Of course not! However, the fact remains that Poor coping skills happen in all family sizes, not just those with more than two kids.

Catholic parenting isn’t supposed to be about having a set number of babies as if they are little possessions or accessories. We have children in order to raise them to serve God in this life and then rejoice with Him in heaven. Many of us have no children or struggle to have one or two, others the babies come easily without effort. Most find themselves somewhere in between. No matter where on the fertility spectrum you fall, God has a plan and we need to do our best to align our wills with His. The most important step in getting there is developing proper coping skills to deal with the way life works out. For me that included multiple loses (13 to be exact—hence my user name), along side of receiving 6 very young and traumatized children all at once. Dealing with the hurt, anger, and worry for my relative that is their birth parent didn’t make things easier. Having my husband out of the home for months or at times 2+ years at a time for much of that period compounded things. I understand how hard life can be when things don’t go picture perfectly. It doesn’t excuse bad behavior on the part of the adults, and it is never due to the addition of another child. Those bad coping skills and the lack of resiliency were already present.

I am not at all saying that it is never a shock or even devastating to find out an unexpected baby is coming. And I am realize at times a family may need to decide to hold off for awhile before adding a new member. What I mean is, once baby is on the way, parents need to act like grown ups, get things in order, and be the parent each child in the family deserves. They must do whatever it takes to make that happen, including outside help or counseling as needed. If they don’t, it is on them. It has nothing at all to do with having too many kids and everything to do with them not having their priorities in the right order.

 

[Psalm30]

If a couple is very conservative in the use of NFP - is that open to procreation? An honest question - not being rhetorical.

In the Catholic marriage rite, a husband and wife promise to accept any children God sends to them. In other words, if you get pregnant, you accept, love, and raise the child in the Faith.
Even conservative NFP is not 100% effective. So, if you use NFP and are okay with the roughly 2% chance of conception, that is being open to procreation.

This doesn’t mean you have to actively seek out pregnancy at any given time.

 

[catholichusband]

Wanting more children as an adult is all well and good but when you’ve just washed poop out of underwear for the 3rd time and still have a dirty diaper it’s very, very reasonable to say “not right now” to a baby.

When you’re working and can’t even spend time with the kid’s God’s already given you. It’s very reasonable to say “not right now” to a baby.

When you need another year to recover and get a full night’s sleep it’s very reasonable to say “not right now” to a baby.

Thanks but the circumstances you quote are not reflective of our situation. I appreciate people sharing their experiences and how they handled them - but do not appreciate when the same is implied as being reflective of our circumstances. … Specifically - if we are both home I do virtually all diaper changes. … We do spend time with our children (have dinner together most nights, homework help, bedtime stories etc… most work from home is when children are sleeping)… and we have been blessed with children - who once asleep - sleep well. It has been well over a year since we were regularly disturbed in the night… and the routine we had before then - is of course my wife would be up for feedings… but if baby needed did not go back to sleep right away I would be up to handle that part. I know my wife just needs more sleep than I do - so I have and will continue to do everything I can to facilitate that. I acknowledge that we (and my wife especially) have reasons for concern and caution but I do not think it helps at all to imply other issues on top of that.

 

[catholichusband]

No matter where on the fertility spectrum you fall, God has a plan and we need to do our best to align our wills with His.

Thank-you for this comment. This is what I am struggling with. I acknowledge marriage, children, pregnancy, risk of experiencing a loss… everything is very difficult… and yes that may all factor into a decision to avoid a chance of pregnancy. … At the same time God does not promise and easy road to those who follow him. This makes knowing whether the decision to avoid pregnancy is God’s will difficult to determine. Overall I have been surprised by how few of the posts have referenced any hint of discerning God’s will as part of the process.

 

[catholichusband]

Even conservative NFP is not 100% effective. So, if you use NFP and are okay with the roughly 2% chance of conception, that is being open to procreation.

I don’t think any method of birth control is 100% effective. So if effectiveness rates are the measuring stick then the extension of this is everyone is open to procreation.

 

[13pollitos]

NFP uses a woman’s natural fertility rhythm. Nothing is corrupted, tampered with, or blocked. That is what makes it ordered toward procreation while contraception is not. Can it be used too conservatively or for reasons and in circumstances that it shouldn’t be? I believe yes, others have said no. I guess each couple has to determine that for themselves.

 

[Psalm30]

I don’t think any method of birth control is 100% effective. So if effectiveness rates are the measuring stick then the extension of this is everyone is open to procreation.

Unless they intend to have an abortion if their contraception/NFP fails. That mindset would not be open to procreation…and most definitely not okay in the eyes of the Church, which goes without saying.

 

[Psalm30]

Can it be used too conservatively or for reasons and in circumstances that it shouldn’t be? I believe yes, others have said no. I guess each couple has to determine that for themselves.

I think it probably can be used too conservatively, but I think sometimes people overestimate what “good reasons” or “just reasons” for using NFP are. Some people believe the only reasons good enough to use NFP conservatively are things like life threatening illnesses and dire financial situations…and then judge others for using it in lesser circumstances.

 

[13pollitos]

As I said, each couple has to determine that for themselves.

On the flip side, there are many times where a couple isn’t generous enough and wants to control every aspect of their family lifestyle and size without any regard to what God may be calling them towards. Uncomfortable does not mean shouldn’t be done, but many view discomfort as a sign that avoiding needs to happen. Again, that is up to a couple to decide themselves.

If one spouse is truly feeling the desire for a new baby, it is time for the other spouse to pray with them and ask guidance (from God) on what should be happening in order to “make room” in their hearts and home. It may be that there isn’t a way, but that needs to be determined through prayer and deep, open communication.

 

[Psalm30]

As I said, each couple has to determine that for themselves.

On the flip side, there are many times where a couple isn’t generous enough and wants to control every aspect of their family lifestyle and size without any regard to what God may be calling them towards. Uncomfortable does not mean shouldn’t be done, but many view discomfort as a sign that avoiding needs to happen. Again, that is up to a couple to decide themselves.

If one spouse is truly feeling the desire for a new baby, it is time for the other spouse to pray with them and ask guidance (from God) on what should be happening in order to “make room” in their hearts and home. It may be that there isn’t a way, but that needs to be determined through prayer and deep, open communication.

I agree 110% with all of this.

I think I’m subconsciously responding to people with whom I’ve had discussions about this in the past, who pounce on anyone who is not willing to have as many children as possible between their wedding day and menopause, unless they are at death’s door or totally bankrupt.

I just think it’s important to remember that responsible family planning is a virtue. And only God is the judge of whether a particular couple’s reasons for avoiding pregnancy are good enough or not.

 

[Gilly_flower]

As your wife is the one who will have to bear the baby, with all the health risks you have mentioned, and be its prime carer, I gently suggest that it would be kindest to let her have the final say on whether or not to have a third child, and to support her in that decision if it is “no” and not to try to pressure her into changing her mind. I know few women of her age who would leap at the thought of another baby just at the point where their existing little ones are starting to be easier.
Given her history she may also feel that another pregnancy could leave her existing children motherless…have you considered how you would cope alone with both your existing children, and possibly a new baby as well? Especially as the risk of handicap rises with the age of the mother. Are you ready to be a single father? At the end of the day she must decide - and you must be gracious…

 

[13pollitos]

Complications: Our first pregnancy ended in miscarriage for the 2nd and third pregnancies she needed regular progesterone injections almost throughout her pregnancy (apparently very low levels) and this was likely the reason for the first miscarriage. If the same is assumed to occur again then this involves trips to clinic 2X/week - adding a significant constraint to her schedule.

I just noticed this part of your post OP. At the risk of appearing to give medical advice, I would suggest asking an OB BEFORE pregnancy is attempted if progesterone suppositories or creams may be an option in place of the shots. That would make it much less of a hassle in trying to go to the clinic twice a week. I am not a doctor, but I have had to use progesterone suppositories during pregnancy.

 

[Allegra]

The doc isn’t going to be able to tell them that right now. Progesterone dosages are determined by frequent blood tests during the pregnancy. He won’t know if she can get by on the pills until she is already pregnant and he tests her blood.

 

[13pollitos]

That makes sense I guess, but none of the drs have ever tested me or gave me pills. They just prescribed suppositories based on history. I did receive shots at the end of one of my pregnancies but that was to hold off labor. That is why I suggested speaking with their OB. Civilian doctors tend to do things much differently than Army docs.

 

[Allegra]

Pills or shots are a higher dosage than suppositories and creams. If there was a major concern, they’d probably do testing.

 

[13pollitos]

Not at a MTF. Health care paid for by tax payers doesn’t allow for “fertility” issues. It always made me mad that there is not help for ladies like me, yet if I wanted to get my tubes tied or my husband wanted a vasectomy, we could have them done in an instant. At least abortion is never allowed. Tricare is a blessing, but it also has its down sides. I pray that the US never goes to full socialized medicine. When the government is in charge of paying, they are also in charge of what treatments are available.