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Joie_de_Vivre
Guest
Both heterosexuality and homosexuality are modernist inventions.
LGB is not another term for sodomite as by the Catholic definition most sodomites are not LGB… LGB also refers to orientation and not actions.
Belgian archbishop seeks Church recognition of same-sex unions [CC]
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LGB is not another term for sodomite as by the Catholic definition most sodomites are not LGB… LGB also refers to orientation and not actions.
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ServusHumilis
Guest
Well we could go on all day but I disagree. “LGB” refers to the supposed community they’ve created for themselves while on the other hand I’m sure there are people with SSA who would never claim to be apart of it. I would also never use the PC phrase “sexual orientation” but rather “sexual preference.” Giving them what they want and acknowledging their disorder as anything other than sin doesn’t help anyone.
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Joie_de_Vivre
Guest
It doesn’t necessarily refer to that community, there are “LGB people” who do not belong to the “LGB community” such as Henri Nouwen and there are also those who identify as belonging to the “LGB community”, but are not sexually active such as Eve Tushnet.
Catholic teaching defines homosexual acts i.e. gay sex as intrinsically disordered and desire gay sex is an objectively disordered i.e. it it is ordered towards an objective evil. To be attracted to people of the same sex is not intrinsically disordered or sinful and is only objectively disordered as far as it is an attraction to gay sex.
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Lion_IRC
Guest
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Reclusius
Guest
He is not a Dutch bishop, but a Belgian bishop! Belgium border’s on the Netherlands, but it is a different country and also the ecclesiatical situation is also quite different.
That been said; you can read in English about the situation here: incaelo.wordpress.com/2014/12/29/the-impossibilities-of-bishop-bonny/ and it’s bad, really bad.
That been said; you can read in English about the situation here: incaelo.wordpress.com/2014/12/29/the-impossibilities-of-bishop-bonny/ and it’s bad, really bad.
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Reclusius
Guest
No, he was from France.
And this ís a serious situation. The source wich i linked in my previous post is very obediënt to the Magisterium and from a non-polemical nature.
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PTL
Guest
We will hear bishops advocating homosexuality from the previous Synod to the next. It is a very unfortunate fact. The Progressives will continue to lobby for 'votes". This is nothing to do with the media “twist”, this is a fact, a sad fact. Let’s face it.
I don’t know what the Church will become. Hopefully she will never change her doctrine, but we have already heard the comment that sticking to the doctrine is “rigid”. When enough votes are lobbied, who knows what will come out?
However, no matter what, I have already decided that “as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord,” although the changing of the doctrine in acknowledging gay relationship is a big Cross for the true faithful to carry.
I don’t know what the Church will become. Hopefully she will never change her doctrine, but we have already heard the comment that sticking to the doctrine is “rigid”. When enough votes are lobbied, who knows what will come out?
However, no matter what, I have already decided that “as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord,” although the changing of the doctrine in acknowledging gay relationship is a big Cross for the true faithful to carry.
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georget
Guest
Ok, sorry, your sentence baffled me, thus the Huh. Maybe you could elucidate.Sorry, your one word sentence is baffling me.
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Brandall
Guest
We must assume that if someone speaks of recognizing same sex unions that they speak of those where sexual relations are involved. If there are no sexual relations involved, that is known as a friendship and would not need special recognition. As far as I know, there is no doctrine against non sexual friendships.
My knowledge of most of this is nearly non existent but I’m not certain how the B of LGB fits in here. My slight bit of understanding is that the L’s are women that are sexually attracted to women, the G’s are men sexually attracted to men and the B’s are men that are attracted to men and women and women that are attracted to men and women. If these B’s are Catholics, at least they are attracted to the opposite sex which is better than only being sexually attracted to the same sex which cannot result in a marriage.
If the B’s then marry a person of the opposite sex, then they have the same burden the rest of us do. They have to be monogamous. While that in itself can prove to be a challenge, it does not make them a special class in need of recognition.
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Brandall
Guest
The entire story from the “generally-reliable Catholic source” is very short.
A Belgian bishop has called for Church recognition of same-sex unions.
Bishop Johan Bonny of Antwerp told the daily De Morgen that he favored “formal recognition” of homosexual and bisexual couples. Stopping short of an endorsement for same-sex marriage, he observed that governments have offered different types of recognition for different unions, and suggested that the Church too could have “a diversity of forms of recognition” for various relationships.
It might be better to wait and see if there is more coming because there isn’t a lot to be understood from this short story.
A Belgian bishop has called for Church recognition of same-sex unions.
Bishop Johan Bonny of Antwerp told the daily De Morgen that he favored “formal recognition” of homosexual and bisexual couples. Stopping short of an endorsement for same-sex marriage, he observed that governments have offered different types of recognition for different unions, and suggested that the Church too could have “a diversity of forms of recognition” for various relationships.
It might be better to wait and see if there is more coming because there isn’t a lot to be understood from this short story.
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Tigg
Guest
Correct, but beware that the gay contingent most always demands some sort of recognition for their orientation not being content to embrace their humanity as the Church defines it (we are all made in the image of God.) For some reason, they seem to have a need to qualify their being with their sexuality, although to the rest of us it usually isn’t of primary concern.
I suspect we all need educating (or not) because we have entered the twilight zone of social behaviors and morality where up is down and right is wrong and left is right and the envelope is continually pushed to see what innovative constructs are yet to be defined.
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Brandall
Guest
Morality isn’t worse now than it ever has been. While it may be more out in the open than some of us are used to, it isn’t unusual.
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Joie_de_Vivre
Guest
The reocgnizing same sex union part could be about mutual caring and as such there is no need to assume there is sex going on because it is irrelevant to it. Once upon a time there used to be nonsexual same sex partnerships recognized by Catholic societies so doing it again isn’t liberal, it is reactionary for returning to medieval precedent.
The L is for Lesbians, women attracted solely to women and G is for Gays who are men attracted solely to men. B is for bisexuals who are indeed people attracted to both genders.
It can be deserving of recognition for the additional challenges they face.
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frobert
Guest
Right on both.
In pre-modern times neither heterosexuality or homosexuality had attained the status of normal. Most concepts evolve over time and in that sense they are modern.
The Hebrew word which translates as “Sodomite”, is “Qadesh”.
Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon defines Qadesh as: “masculine temple prostitute”
Literally, Qadesh refers to male prostitution in pagan religious rites. By the very Hebrew definition of the word, we see that it does not refer to a homosexual, but rather, male religious prostitution heterosexually and/or homosexually.
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Tigg
Guest
There now seems to be greater compromise of ones convictions leading to gray areas - a softness leaving us more vulnerable to deception.
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Lion_IRC
Guest
Which part didn’t you understand?Lion IRC;12615072:
Huh?
Sorry, your one word sentence is baffling me.
Ok, sorry, your sentence baffled me, thus the Huh. Maybe you could elucidate.
I think we CERTAINLY should recognize same-sex attraction and same-sex relationships and homosexual acts. The bible already does recognize them.
…for what they are - immoral.
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Reclusius
Guest
See this source from the neighbour country (they speak the same language) incaelo.wordpress.com/2014/12/29/the-impossibilities-of-bishop-bonny/
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JackVk
Guest
Francis said very bluntly that attempts to redefine marriage and family are “machinations of the father of lies”, and that “every child deserves a mother and father”. The “who am I to judge” comment was actually about priests who are celibate but have same-sex attraction.
In regard to the bishop’s statement: it turns out that Hilaire Belloc was dead wrong when he said that “Europe is the Faith and the Faith is Europe”. Nope, the Faith is the Faith. Europe is Europe.
Finally, it’s not the first time a bishop has embraced heresy, and it certainly won’t be the last :yawn:
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SWolf
Guest
As much as I like the guy, I thank God Hellaire Belloc was wrong on that.
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SWolf
Guest
It’s not so cut-and-dry. He’s been shown to compromise on this before.
nytimes.com/2013/03/20/world/americas/pope-francis-old-colleagues-recall-pragmatic-streak.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&
"But behind the scenes, Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, who led the public charge against the measure, spoke out in a heated meeting of bishops in 2010 and advocated a highly unorthodox solution: that the church in Argentina support the idea of civil unions for gay couples.
"
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