Belgian archbishop seeks Church recognition of same-sex unions [CC]

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Surely Church teaching is scripture and tradition. It is not a once and for all thing, as some seem to wish it were.
 
otjm said:
I think you missed that point that Brandon Cal was making.

Added to that, it appears that the good Cardinal’s comments were reported by the secular press, and that in and of itself should give everyone pause to wonder if he has been quoted out of context (as happened with Benedict 16).
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No, I quite understand his point I just disagree with it. In this case I think the Archbishop needs to be micromanaged. Again if his opinions are not that of the Church then he is not of the Church.

While I’d love to give him the benefit of the doubt, it’s hard to interpret things otherwise. All I’ve seen hasn’t suggested his meaning to be anything different.
 
PTL said:
We will hear bishops advocating homosexuality from the previous Synod to the next. It is a very unfortunate fact. The Progressives will continue to lobby for 'votes". This is nothing to do with the media “twist”, this is a fact, a sad fact. Let’s face it.

I don’t know what the Church will become. Hopefully she will never change her doctrine, but we have already heard the comment that sticking to the doctrine is “rigid”. When enough votes are lobbied, who knows what will come out?

However, no matter what, I have already decided that “as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord,” although the changing of the doctrine in acknowledging gay relationship is a big Cross for the true faithful to carry.
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Either Christ was a liar, or He told the Truth.

He said that He would send the Holy Spirit, and that the Holy Spirit would guard the Church in matters of Faith and Morals.

So if Christ lied, we can all roll it up and go home.

And if He told the Truth, then it will not be a matter of counting votes (I might remind you that occurred in the committee leading up to Humanae Vitae), doctrine will not change, and the Church will prevail.
 
ServusHumilis said:
No, I quite understand his point I just disagree with it. In this case I think the Archbishop needs to be micromanaged. Again if his opinions are not that of the Church then he is not of the Church.

While I’d love to give him the benefit of the doubt, it’s hard to interpret things otherwise. All I’ve seen hasn’t suggested his meaning to be anything different.
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Go read what Benedict 16 said about condoms. If you do not understand the parallel, then I can’t be of any help.
 
otjm said:
Either Christ was a liar, or He told the Truth.

He said that He would send the Holy Spirit, and that the Holy Spirit would guard the Church in matters of Faith and Morals.

So if Christ lied, we can all roll it up and go home.

And if He told the Truth, then it will not be a matter of counting votes (I might remind you that occurred in the committee leading up to Humanae Vitae), doctrine will not change, and the Church will prevail.
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Christ never lied. Jesus himself is the Truth. The Holy Spirit guides the Church but people in the Church use the name of the Holy Spirit to promote their own agenda.The Bible - Word of God - clearly says the homosexual behavior is sinful. However, bishops could seek Church recognition of same sex relationship. This is the typical case of promoting evil agenda in the name of the Holy Spirit. I pray such agenda will never prevail and the doctrine will never change. I pray the “counting votes” will never happen and shepherds of the Church will remain faithful to the Gospel teaching.
 
It’s been nearly a week now since this story broke, and to my knowledge, neither the Pope or any Bishop has spoken out in defense of Catholic doctrine. The comments made by the Bishop were horrific, and if they are ignored by the Church’s hierarchy, it will slowly but surely send the message that homosexual unions may no longer be sinful, at least in the Diocese of Antwerp.
 
Seamus_L said:
It’s been nearly a week now since this story broke, and to my knowledge, neither the Pope or any Bishop has spoken out in defense of Catholic doctrine. The comments made by the Bishop were horrific, and if they are ignored by the Church’s hierarchy, it will slowly but surely send the message that homosexual unions may no longer be sinful, at least in the Diocese of Antwerp.
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Why would something be so sinful when it arises out of a deeply held and natural feeling? Is there not some degree of sin in being so antithetical to such a thing? Just asking…?

Church doctrine is emergent as in scripture and tradition. It is not as though the underlying values and natural polarity in marriage are being challenged. It might be a hard pill for many of us to swallow who were brought up thinking the sole purpose of marriage is procreation between man and woman.
 
Paralove said:
Why would something be so sinful when it arises out of a deeply held and natural feeling?
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The sinfullness of something isn’t determined by our feelings. Sin plays on our feelings and uses them to entice us to sin.
Paralove said:
Is there not some degree of sin in being so antithetical to such a thing? Just asking…?
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No, there is no sin in opposing sin.
Paralove said:
Church doctrine is emergent as in scripture and tradition.
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And both have spoken on this topic. It is sinful.
Paralove said:
It is not as though the underlying values and natural polarity in marriage are being challenged.
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Yes, that’s EXACTLY what is being challenged. Our sinful society is attacking the very nature of marriage by trying to pretend that two men or two women can be married.
Paralove said:
It might be a hard pill for many of us to swallow who were brought up thinking the sole purpose of marriage is procreation between man and woman.
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If you were taught this, then you were taught incorrectly. The Catholic faith teaches that marriage is about procreation AND the mutual benefit of husband and wife. There are two parts to marriage and without either you have a faulty notion of marriage.
 
Seamus_L said:
It’s been nearly a week now since this story broke, and to my knowledge, neither the Pope or any Bishop has spoken out in defense of Catholic doctrine. The comments made by the Bishop were horrific, and if they are ignored by the Church’s hierarchy, it will slowly but surely send the message that homosexual unions may no longer be sinful, at least in the Diocese of Antwerp.
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This is really a problem that our Church leadership needs to recognize. In this day and age, when information streams all over the world in a second, and news is reported 24 hours a day, responses to such heresy MUST be answered much more quickly. Extended silence gives the impression that it is okay.
 
Path_Finder said:
I would think the Belgian Archbishop could be correct in manners without making this a public denunciation.

Huffington Post reported this article just yesterday, Patheos today.

patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2015/01/belgian-bishop-calls-for-formal-recognition-of-same-sex-couples/
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I would think the Belgian Archbishop could be correctED in manners without making this a public denunciation.
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Oops, the one time I did not proof read: I would think the Belgian Archbishop could be spoken to without making this a public affair. Also, it does seem like he said this in an interview, not in a sermon. So, it doesn’t appear like he was issuing a proclamation.
 
Mark121359 said:
About the point of your comment. You’re seeing this more and more. Bishops and Cardinals making comments that are so contrary to Church teachings that they’re downright scandalous. How long have they held these views? And if they were known about, why were they appointed such high positions in the Church to begin with?
Peace, Mark***
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What it is he intends isn’t exactly clear but there is enough of a buzz in there that causes concern. It’s frustrating enough that the average Catholic has such a shallow grasp of doctrine and then you get someone that should have a firm grip on doctrine and from all outward signs, they are ignoring it.

The gate is narrow and creating a “feel good” Christianity where everyone should be accepted as long as they are “good” regardless of whether or not they are actively repenting of their sins seems dangerous.

He noted, “The intrinsic values are more important to me than the institutional question. The Christian ethic is based on lasting relationships where exclusivity, loyalty and care are central to each other.”

What does that statement mean? Does it mean that being in a disordered and sinful relationship is okay if you do it for a long time and really care and don’t cheat on each other?

The water is muddied and that muddy water is causing harm. Whether or not any doctrine ever changes, there will be legions that believe it has. They will come to assume that it’s all okay as long as you love each other. All this will make teaching the truth in the future that much harder.

As far as I’m concerned, I wish it didn’t matter. I wish God was okay with you doing what ever you wanted but that just isn’t the way I understand it. If God thinks it is a sin, it just is. It doesn’t matter that a Belgian Bishop thinks it okay because you’ve been sinning that way for a long time and really care. It’s still a sin. The truth is true even if everyone believes it to be false and a lie is a lie even if everyone thinks it true.

As for my own life, I consistently put my own desires in between my relationship with God. I’m a horribly sinful person and absolutely do repeat sins. That’s not to say that I’m not trying but have yet to reach perfection.
 
I am not surprised I am outnumbered on this topic on this thread.

Obviously many of you predate the mentiality referred to by Pope Francis a while ago. He cautioned against too much moralizing on these sort of issues, and the consequential danger of the Church collapsing like a house of cards.

I think we have to remember that we do not own God. God loves everyone equally.
 
Paralove said:
I am not surprised I am outnumbered on this topic on this thread.

Obviously many of you predate the mentiality referred to by Pope Francis a while ago. He cautioned against too much moralizing on these sort of issues, and the consequential danger of the Church collapsing like a house of cards.

I think we have to remember that we do not own God. God loves everyone equally.
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Is that what the media told you? Your words make no sense. Right and wrong is clearly defined. Homosexual acts are wrong; they always have been and they always will be. They are not something Pope Francis condones; don’t make it out as if he does. Better the Church collapse than fall into heresy. Likewise we’re not going to sit back and say nothing and pretend we’re OK with it; that would make us guilty of sin ourselves.
 
Paralove said:
I am not surprised I am outnumbered on this topic on this thread.

Obviously many of you predate the mentiality referred to by Pope Francis a while ago. He cautioned against too much moralizing on these sort of issues, and the consequential danger of the Church collapsing like a house of cards.

I think we have to remember that we do not own God. God loves everyone equally.
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It would appear that you’re here to be contrary so there should not be any surprise.

Why do you think God loves everyone equally? I’m not certain that is true.
 
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