Belgian archbishop seeks Church recognition of same-sex unions [CC]

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cena said:
My metaphor wasn’t clear, your faith doesn’t earn love from God. I was trying to say a devout Catholic, someone who continuously is trying to do God’s will and please Him, would be loved more than someone who won’t even consider the idea of the existence of God. That doesn’t mean the atheist isn’t loved, because he is.
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If you don’t earn Gods love by being saintly, explain why you think a devout catholic is more loved by God than a great sinner or a committed atheist? The only difference among them is that the Catholic is closer to living in God’s will than the atheist. Did God incarnate and die for the catholic more than he incarnated and died for the atheist? What is your measure of God’s love for us? Is there love more or greater than the incarnation and death of God? Which atheist has a smaller portion in it than any catholic? Our saints say that if there was only one sinner, God would have died for them too. What does that say about God’s love for humans as humans and not as Christians? God is no bigot. He has laws and protects free will, but that kind of love you describe is bigotry where some humans are more worthy of his love than others and has nothing to do with the God of Christianity.
 
Prodigal Son.

I’ve been watching this conversation for about 2 or 3 days. Does God love us all equally?? Well, it is the parable of the Prodigal Son at play here I think in its most basic form.

Some have left, some never left. God is happy to recover one of his “lost sheep”.
 
Rubia said:
If you don’t earn Gods love by being saintly, explain why you think a devout catholic is more loved by God than a great sinner or a committed atheist? The only difference among them is that the Catholic is closer to living in God’s will than the atheist. Did God incarnate and die for the catholic more than he incarnated and died for the atheist? What is your measure of God’s love for us? Is there love more or greater than the incarnation and death of God? Which atheist has a smaller portion in it than any catholic? Our saints say that if there was only one sinner, God would have died for them too. What does that say about God’s love for humans as humans and not as Christians? God is no bigot. He has laws and protects free will, but that kind of love you describe is bigotry where some humans are more worthy of his love than others and has nothing to do with the God of Christianity.
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God loves everyone, that is a gift, and gifts cannot be earned.

I didn’t mean to imply we “earn” God’s love. God loves everyone, I didn’t mean to say he didn’t. Someone who is continuously doing God’s will and seeks to please God would be more pleasing to God than someone who hates him. That doesn’t mean God doesn’t love the second person. The first person loves Him more so he receives more love, that doesn’t mean the second one receives no love.
newadvent.org/summa/1020.htm
Look at the third question In the link

In the bible with Cain and Abel, Abel gave God his best fruit as a sacrifice while Cain gave his worst. Abel loved God more, and since he made a better sacrifice he was rewarded better.
 
Hello, all…

As a potential inquirer into the Catholic faith, it’s stories like these that give me pause about becoming Catholic.

I’m historically a Protestant, but never felt comfortable with the doctrines. For a short time I was a catechumen of the Orthodox church, but stopped because I could not get past the icon veneration thing (Christ has two natures, he is physically depicted but not spiritually present in the icon was my concern, as well as perhaps the icon violating the 2nd commandment).

But, the notion of something like this ever happening in the Orthodox church is not only unthinkable, but rather impossible. Almost everyone I know and love is Catholic. We have these great debates over theological and moral issues like the one presented in this thread. We are living in the end times, of this there is no doubt. SSM and other acts inconsistent with holy living disturb me to no end. I want to affiliate myself with the Church who defends the deposit of faith as once handed to the saints. I’m actually leaning to returning to being a catechumen with the Orthodox because I somehow feel the Catholic Church is handling this issue with kid gloves rather than just come out and slam the hammer down.

Am I off base? I am deeply, deeply concerned about this matter and many others, but this SSM thing is dominating the news of late with state after state falling to the PC crowd. I’m worried that in the not-so-distant future, those who malign or impugn said behavior will be in legal trouble. As a Christian, I cannot bend or sway with the whims of man. I’m a sinner, yes, but one who is trying to be set apart as Christ commanded. To be holy literally means to be set apart. What seems to be happening here is that as time goes on, the moral decay of the world is affecting the Church. The church exists to evangelize the world, but more and more it seems the world is evangelizing the Church.
 
rsearch said:
Hello, all…

As a potential inquirer into the Catholic faith, it’s stories like these that give me pause about becoming Catholic.

I’m historically a Protestant, but never felt comfortable with the doctrines. For a short time I was a catechumen of the Orthodox church, but stopped because I could not get past the icon veneration thing (Christ has two natures, he is physically depicted but not spiritually present in the icon was my concern, as well as perhaps the icon violating the 2nd commandment).

But, the notion of something like this ever happening in the Orthodox church is not only unthinkable, but rather impossible. Almost everyone I know and love is Catholic. We have these great debates over theological and moral issues like the one presented in this thread. We are living in the end times, of this there is no doubt. SSM and other acts inconsistent with holy living disturb me to no end. I want to affiliate myself with the Church who defends the deposit of faith as once handed to the saints. I’m actually leaning to returning to being a catechumen with the Orthodox because I somehow feel the Catholic Church is handling this issue with kid gloves rather than just come out and slam the hammer down.

Am I off base? I am deeply, deeply concerned about this matter and many others, but this SSM thing is dominating the news of late with state after state falling to the PC crowd. I’m worried that in the not-so-distant future, those who malign or impugn said behavior will be in legal trouble. As a Christian, I cannot bend or sway with the whims of man. I’m a sinner, yes, but one who is trying to be set apart as Christ commanded. To be holy literally means to be set apart. What seems to be happening here is that as time goes on, the moral decay of the world is affecting the Church. The church exists to evangelize the world, but more and more it seems the world is evangelizing the Church.
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Welcome. Catholic convert, so I understand some of what you’re talking about. There’s times I want to smack some Catholics upside the head and yell at them to BE CATHOLIC!

But rest assured, God Himself promised the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church, and these issues will pass (sadly, there will be others to replace them, we fallen humans tend to do that). But the Church will prevail, and it will not teach error.
 
rsearch said:
I am deeply, deeply concerned about this matter and many others, but this SSM thing is dominating the news of late with state after state falling to the PC crowd. I’m worried that in the not-so-distant future, those who malign or impugn said behavior will be in legal trouble. As a Christian, I cannot bend or sway with the whims of man. I’m a sinner, yes, but one who is trying to be set apart as Christ commanded. To be holy literally means to be set apart. What seems to be happening here is that as time goes on, the moral decay of the world is affecting the Church. The church exists to evangelize the world, but more and more it seems the world is evangelizing the Church.
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Many are deeply concerned. It is true that the Church seems to be evangelized by the world instead of being the light to the world. The leftest leadership is steering the boat more and more to the secular side. One person I know mentioned to me the other day that he “loves the current Pope so much”. He said our current Pope is “more Obama than Obama” (his exact words).

But be not afraid. As long as we know and follow the Gospel, we will be fine. We are only accountable to the Lord, not to any human person.
 
Rsearch,

Another Catholic convert here. Welcome!

First, with no disrespect to our other Christian friends, the Roman Catholic Church is the Church Jesus founded, the Church He built on the Rock (Peter) and proclaimed that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. That is key because when you see stuff like “This cardinal said ___” or “That bishop said ___”, you must remember that this is particular to the bishop/priest/cardinal/whomever and is not indicative of the direction of the Church. The Church is guided by the Lord Himself, through the power of the Holy Spirit. The laity and clergy are human and are therefore fallible; the oft-referenced “infallibility of the Pope” is under specific cases and is rarely used - search “ex cathedra” and you’ll find others who explain it far better (Jimmy Akin does, if I remember). But no pope is infallible all the time, nor does the Church claim he is. The Pope confesses his sins and receives Reconciliation, just as we do. But the Church - Her doctrines, Her dogma - is guided by the Lord through the power of the Holy Spirit, and the powers of darkness will not prevail against it. So remember that when you see headlines like this.

Second, take everything you read about Christians in the news with a grain of salt, and anything you read about Catholics with a shaker full. 🙂 In all seriousness, the media has a bad track record of misquoting or otherwise misconstruing things the Catholic Church has said or believes. I speak as a professional journalist. Many in my profession are hostile to the Catholic Church, and some are simply misinformed or uninformed. Either way, that combined with the pressure of deadlines and the 24/7 news cycle can create inaccuracies in reporting. So bear that in mind when reading about the Church, especially if it’s something that sounds badly askew.

Finally, realize the Church cannot change on the same-sex marriage question, just as the Church cannot have women priests. This is not something that is up to the Church to decide; these sacraments (Holy Matrimony and Holy Orders) were designed and ordained by Jesus Himself, and no pope, cardinal, bishop, priest, or laity has the authority to change them. These sacraments are not subject to popular vote or the whims of the current zeitgeist. They are what they are. That is not to say that we in the Church do not show love to people with same-sex attraction or that a person who is attracted to the same sex may not be a devout Catholic. On the contrary, the Church asks no more of her children with same-sex attraction than she does of her children with heterosexual attraction: outside the bonds of Holy Matrimony, one must be chaste (pure) and celibate (not sexually active). Is it difficult? Yes. But Jesus never claimed that the road wouldn’t be difficult. He said that His yolk is easy and His burden is light…but we still must all carry crosses. The difference is He grants us the grace to carry them.

May God bless you as you search for the answers to your questions.
 
I found this great radio segment by Dr. Scott Hahn on papal infallibility, if you want to know where the Church derives this doctrine. If you aren’t familiar with Dr. Hahn, he was a Protestant pastor who converted to the Catholic Church, along with his family. His book “Rome Sweet Home” is a must-read. Actually, I love all of Dr. Hahn’s books, and I think he is a great resource to anyone searching for the truth.
 
Catholic_Press said:
A Belgian archbishop has called for Church recognition of same-sex unions.Archbishop Johan Bonny of Antwerp told the daily De Morgen that he favored “formal recognition” of homosexual …

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For a successor of the apostles to think this way is frightening. We need prayers for shepherds to remain faithful to God, not shepherds of populist thinking. Next thing he will ask us to befriend and love the devils/demons so as to be seen as all inclusive. :eek:
 
ericc said:
For a successor of the apostles to think this way is frightening. We need prayers for shepherds to remain faithful to God, not shepherds of populist thinking. Next thing he will ask us to befriend and love the devils/demons so as to be seen as all inclusive. :eek:
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He did not endorse gay marriage.
 
For starters, not sure where anyone could possibly mention the late great Arch Bishop Lefevre in the same paragraph as this idiot from Belgium…it’s reported, and I’m certain there will be those that question it…, that ‘he’ also anounced, as if anyone actually cares…that ‘he’ was a homosexual…there is no doubt that countless Roman Catholic Priests prbly have same sex attraction…just as there are prbly countless numbers of Priests that have heterosexual attraction that live chaste celebant lives…and feel no need to share this with the world…this Priest should be censored and the Nuncio or whomever is responsible for monitoring this man should de frock him…for espousing such nonsense…comparing this stuff with the Pope being misquoted, or taken out of context can’t even be compared…what was reported was accurate ,what’s more disappointing is that it is also reported that the attendants at Mass applauded…and the Church is not in crisis…Riiight…by the way…the late great Pope JP II also remarked, and I’m paraphrasing …that the Church was in crisis…i’m just awaiting the synod later this year to make my decision where I stand…tks and Pax
 
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