Also quite a lot of blind accepting of the nature of that Jesus Christ figure. And the God figure… You’re justifying things from the narrative, by adding more narrative-only elements… it becomes self-consistent, indeed… but requires one to take in a lot of things which are not at all obvious.
Hi p,
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen’’. I would not say blind yet we have not seen.Yet believe seeing spiritually what we could not see in the natural. So none of it is obvious, naturally speaking. All you can see is all the
ripples caused by an alleged ‘rock’, even 2000 years later. It is obvious that at least the question is beckoned, “who is this Jesus?”
And how to account for all other religions? Certainly there’s some element of human gullibility at work
You think ? Of course and that is not all. As it goes in this world, so it is in the spiritual world/dimension, from whence we came. There is good fighting evil, truth fighting falsehood, both with its proponents (human and spiritual beings). So it isn’t just that we are gullible, but there are forces beyond human at work in the deception, even delusions. Still, if there are lies, and delusions, and false religions, it stands to reason there must be truth, and a reality, and a true ‘religion’. -
is it likely that humans got it right with Jesus Christ? Or is he just another figure preying on that gullibility?
(note that I said figure - not claiming anything about the person who may have lived at the time. The figure is the notion about that man that has been carried on to today)
Again, a question that is put forth as requiring an answer. Even St. Peter was asked, “Who do you say that I am?” , for everyone else certainly had an opinion. Still what a question, that the alleged creator of the universe would ask, even each one of us. Quite personal, and really asking us to somewhat set aside all the herd mentality hoopla.
Understand your meaning of "figure’. Just before I came to faith I was shown to have none, that perhaps those
ripples were not even caused by a real ‘rock’.
The latter, let’s go for a general case of a guy who believes in something and is convincing people of its veracity… but it’s not absolutely true.
OK ,he does not know it is a lie and how do we deal not with the veracity of the ‘teller’ but of the ‘message’. So not so much dealing with a web site that might make money off it, but does the berry actually work ? My answer was for such scenario. That as you can research, get actual data etc. as to the berry’s efficacy, you still have to put your faith in the data. What I said was you can get all data for or against God, Christianity, but will never rest in His truth or make the final determination of lie from truth, unless God infuses you with such capability or ‘enlightens’ you etc…
The few studies that exist do claim some nice general health benefits from consuming that berry, but from that to “cures cancer” is a leap.
A leap that many are willing to accept on the say so of others… a leap that many want to think is tiny and harmless… a leap that, if you look at it rationally, is odd that people would take… but we know people are generally not that very rational. And that is what’s being exploited.
*What is also irrational, odd, is to have a real need and not seek out every possibility, no matter how apparently small. *I mean the berry does not hurt as you say but generally helps, and as long as you have done all other proven things, to no avail, why not try the berry? You are gonna die from the cancer anyways. And after all, certainly not all the data is in, maybe it will help.
Like the berry has some positive qualities, Jesus must have said some nice things that resounded with the people of the time. But, like the berry doesn’t cure cancer, I don’t expect that the super qualities that have been attributed to Jesus were actually there.
And yet, people accept them.
Thought provoking analogy. Some say why would one listen to anything Jesus would say, even his nice, positive teachings when either he was insane or a mad man due to his ‘other’ claims (I am God, I will resurrect etc), or who would have anything to do with disciples that concocted fables etc…
Where the analogy breaks down is that not all the data is in, or that it is not as quantifiable or qualifiable as the berry’s effect on health, even cancer. I mean His message is that He beats the cancer, the cancer of the second death on one’s judgement day. How can you qualify that? I mean do you want to disavow even the possibility of the berry’s saving, healing power ? That is the conundrum.
I can only add that yes there are positive things to living a Christian life in the here and now. But more importantly the biggest positive is that we are given faith beyond mere conjecture. We are given an assurance and peace of what is to come, and mores so than the from our previous falsehoods that guided our life (for no one can live without some faith, assurance, and some peace, even if false).
Blessings
