Believing in the True Jesus - Christians vs Baha'is

[SteveVH]

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Amen!

 

[tonyfish58]

the most important question when evaluating the claims of the bahai is to ask what did Bahaullah provide mankind that mankind could not do without?

Dear Eddie too - Dear friend in God with the Love of Jesus.

The Answer is the full Revelation of Jesus Christ as promised by Christ.

For this he was given the same reception as the Jews gave Christ.

But one should consider that the Reception Baha’u’llah Received has been from all Previous Religions, thus the Persecution and Rejection is 1000 times, nay millions of times magnified than that of what Jesus faced 2000 years ago!

One needs to meditate upon this fact that the truth of the Power of Gods Words may be manifested upon ones Soul.

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

Amen!

Dear SteveVH - As stated above, when one uses passages with a view in mine one will get an answer they want, thus the words posted above are applicable to the stance you are making as well.

It could be that the Sound Doctrine is the Word of Baha’u’llah and that you cling to “what their itching ears want to hear”.

God bless justice in your search - Regards Tony

 

[SteveVH]

Dear SteveVH - That my dear friend in God is 100% Ok with me, it is not to me you answer to

Me I pray that we may all Love Jesus as He should be Loved.

Exactly! Do we love him as a fellow creature, a good and wise prophet, or do we love him as our Lord and Savior, God Almighty, Creator of the Universe, only begotten Son of God?
That is the question.

I will leave this with this comment from the Tablet that you have read and that gave you no reason to comment on, I must say I would wonder why it did not spark some questions

It is a little lengthy for a thread, but dear Steve it does say it all!

"… ‘Have the verses been sent down?’ Say ‘Yea, by Him Who is the Lord of the heavens…’

Yes, it is a little lengthy for a thread. Why don’t you give us, in your own words, the Reader’s Digest version. What is he trying to say, exactly? I am truly not sure what I am suppose to glean from this.

Thanks.

Steve

 

[Techno2000]

Amen!

They don’t want to hear about Fire and Brimstone.

(If you are telling me that Hell is a smoky place 3 km down from where Jesus was entombed in Jerusalem, then no I don’t believe in Hell.

Otherwise, if it is a spiritual state like Heaven, then I do…all Baha’is do…)

 

[SteveVH]

Dear SteveVH - As stated above, when one uses passages with a view in mine one will get an answer they want, thus the words posted above are applicable to the stance you are making as well.

It could be that the Sound Doctrine is the Word of Baha’u’llah and that you cling to “what their itching ears want to hear”.

God bless justice in your search - Regards Tony

And you do not approach the Christian Scriptures without a preconceived view in mind?

This is not a matter of choosing behind either Door A or Door B, as if either could be correct and we have no way of knowing. We are Christians for a reason.

You seem to be rather unsure of the validity of your own faith just as Servant19, who in a recent post admitted that another may come along in a thousand years or so and prove the Baha’i wrong.

It is very simple. If Jesus was who he claimed to be then we should not turn our gaze to another. I believe that Jesus was who he claimed to be, not who the Baha’i claim he is. One cannot follow both Jesus and Baha’u’llah. I choose Jesus.

 

[SteveVH]

The Answer is the full Revelation of Jesus Christ as promised by Christ.

He promised the Holy Spirit, who came upon the Apostles and disciples at Pentecost and who continues to guide and protect the Church from doctrinal error. Jesus kept his promise and it was not Baha’u’llah.

One needs to meditate upon this fact that the truth of the Power of Gods Words may be manifested upon ones Soul.

Yes, one does.

 

[tonyfish58]

Exactly! Do we love him as a fellow creature, a good and wise prophet, or do we love him as our Lord and Savior, God Almighty, Creator of the Universe, only begotten Son of God?
That is the question.

Yes, it is a little lengthy for a thread. Why don’t you give us, in your own words, the Reader’s Digest version. What is he trying to say, exactly? I am truly not sure what I am suppose to glean from this.Thanks.Steve

We Love Jesus as He Should be Loved dear Steve, Each as they see they should do.

The Short version, all that was promised has been fulfilled.

I note that this can be further contemplated/discussed with questions you posted below.

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[SteveVH]

They don’t want to hear about Fire and Brimstone.

(If you are telling me that Hell is a smoky place 3 km down from where Jesus was entombed in Jerusalem, then no I don’t believe in Hell.

Keep in mind that the Baha’i come from the position that we are infants in our faith, incapable of true understanding due to lack of “capacity”. While the Church has never come close to giving the definition quoted above, it speaks volumes as to the Baha’i view of Christian understanding.

 

[tonyfish58]

They don’t want to hear about Fire and Brimstone.

(If you are telling me that Hell is a smoky place 3 km down from where Jesus was entombed in Jerusalem, then no I don’t believe in Hell.

Otherwise, if it is a spiritual state like Heaven, then I do…all Baha’is do…)

Dear Techno2000 - We all should learn what it is to be truly Fearful of Gods Justice that is given to us on the twin Pillars of Reward and Punishment.

Great indeed is Gods Wrath, luckily for us God shows us Mercy and Forgiveness.

Could it be one is judging another, could one be taking that from Gods Hands?

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[SteveVH]

We Love Jesus as He Should be Loved dear Steve, Each as they see they should do.

What does that mean?

The Short version, all that was promised has been fulfilled.

We would not disagree. Jesus has done all that he promised to do.

 

[SteveVH]

Could it be one is judging another, could one be taking that from Gods Hands?

God Bless and Regards Tony

We are not judging your soul, Tony. That is for God and my sincere hope is that I will see you in heaven. We are, however, obligated to make a judgment between true doctrine and false doctrine.

 

[tonyfish58]

And you do not approach the Christian Scriptures without a preconceived view in mind?

This is not a matter of choosing behind either Door A or Door B, as if either could be correct and we have no way of knowing. We are Christians for a reason.

You seem to be rather unsure of the validity of your own faith just as Servant19, who in a recent post admitted that another may come along in a thousand years or so and prove the Baha’i wrong.

It is very simple. If Jesus was who he claimed to be then we should not turn our gaze to another. I believe that Jesus was who he claimed to be, not who the Baha’i claim he is. One cannot follow both Jesus and Baha’u’llah. I choose Jesus.

Dear Steve - Again these are not my Words dear friend in God. They are not my perception of the Bible. They are from an Authority that I will never possess, as I am but a creation of God that exists only through His Bounty and Grace.

The validity of the Faith must be established dear Steve, why else would we be here. Do you think that we choose rejection? At the birth of a new Revelation a new Impulse is projected into the world and the new Faith starts a process. It has been born and the potentialities are yet to be conceived.

It then goes through growth from the baby to the child to the adolescence on to maturity, old age and death. Upon the death God again fulfills His Covenant and sends Another, who is a mortal frame upon this earth but the embodiment of the Holy Spirit. This unique mortal frame only comes around each thousand years.

Yes I can Follow Jesus by Believing in Baha’u’llah. In fact I can not believe in Baha’u’llah without doing so,

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[Techno2000]

Dear Steve - Again these are not my Words dear friend in God. They are not my perception of the Bible. They are from an Authority that I will never possess, as I am but a creation of God that exists only through His Bounty and Grace.

The validity of the Faith must be established dear Steve, why else would we be here. Do you think that we choose rejection? At the birth of a new Revelation a new Impulse is projected into the world and the new Faith starts a process. It has been born and the potentialities are yet to be conceived.

It then goes through growth from the baby to the child to the adolescence on to maturity, old age and death. Upon the death God again fulfills His Covenant and sends Another, who is a mortal frame upon this earth but the embodiment of the Holy Spirit. This unique mortal frame only comes around each thousand years.

Yes I can Follow Jesus by Believing in Baha’u’llah. In fact I can not believe in Baha’u’llah without doing so,

God Bless and Regards Tony

So tonyfish58 if you Believe in Jesus do you Say the Our Father prayer?

 

[SteveVH]

The validity of the Faith must be established dear Steve, why else would we be here. Do you think that we choose rejection? At the birth of a new Revelation a new Impulse is projected into the world and the new Faith starts a process. It has been born and the potentialities are yet to be conceived.

It then goes through growth from the baby to the child to the adolescence on to maturity, old age and death.

Interesting. This “new Revelation” at some point, dies? Truth can die?

Upon the death God again fulfills His Covenant and sends Another, who is a mortal frame upon this earth but the embodiment of the Holy Spirit. This unique mortal frame only comes around each thousand years.

And when does this process end, Tony? You must admit that if this is the case then you cannot claim to possess “the full Revelation of Jesus Christ as promised by Christ” as you previously stated. There is always more to come, correct? Every thousand years. The full revelation of Jesus Christ is not sufficient in the Baha’i paradigm.

 

[tonyfish58]

So tonyfish58 if you Believe in Jesus do you Say the Our Father prayer?

Dear Techno2000 - I say this beautiful prayer on many occasions

“Our Father, Who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name; Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen”.

God may it be so, may all the veils be rend asunder.

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

Interesting. This “new Revelation” at some point, dies? Truth can die? And when does this process end, Tony? You must admit that if this is the case then you cannot claim to possess “the full Revelation of Jesus Christ as promised by Christ” as you previously stated. There is always more to come, correct? Every thousand years. The full revelation of Jesus Christ is not sufficient in the Baha’i paradigm.

SteveVH - Steve - The Word of God never dies, Christ Never Dies.

Our perception of Truth does. Mans interpretation slowly but inventively distorts the true meaning until nothing but an outer shell of Religion remains. This can be seen with the Jews. Why did they and why do they still not accept Christ? They still worship God, but what do you think remains of True Worship in that belief?

Do you see their Worship as needing an all important ingredient that they have not yet comes to terms with?

SteveVH - God has brought us an ever Advancing Revelation, to which Christ told us about and warned us to be prepared for. Christ was preparing us for the Kingdom of God on Earth as it is in Heaven, Baha’ullah has ushered in the Laws and Principles to make this so. This dispensation is to last another 500,000 years. All Prophets in the Future will be under the Shadow of this momentous Revelation.

All the Prophets of the past, including Christ longed for this day, the day when man has been given by God all that is needed to reach His potential. He prayed to the Father for this to be so.

Basically we, mankind, are all like a young child that has been given as a great gift all the books that contain all possible knowledge. Most of it is far superior to what we can currently know, but each day we read a bit more and a little more is known. The potential grows like a seed into a tree and the fruits become abundant.

I can not do the vision of topic justice dear friend in God. How can one see the potential of the recently planted seed of a giant oak, we are way too close to the planting and the full potential is for future generations to admire.

What is needed now is people to water the seed and that takes willing participants, as no one is forced by God to tend to a garden.

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[SteveVH]

SteveVH - Steve - The Word of God never dies, Christ Never Dies.

Our perception of Truth does. Mans interpretation slowly but inventively distorts the true meaning until nothing but an outer shell of Religion remains.

Thanks for clarifying.

This is exactly why Christ said he would remain with his Church until the end of time and send the Holy Spirit to guide it into all truth. It is why Christ gave his own authority to the Church, so that the truth would never become distorted, but rather shine brighter as it has for centuries in the Catholic Church, which has outlived every man-made institution for the last 2000 years.

This can be seen with the Jews. Why did they and why do they still not accept Christ? They still worship God, but what do you think remains of True Worship in that belief?

Do you see their Worship as needing an all important ingredient that they have not yet comes to terms with?

Rather than the Jews, more relevant to the discussion is why don’t you accept Christ? No one goes to the Father except through him, Tony, and he is not Baha’u’llah.

 

[tonyfish58]

Thanks for clarifying.

This is exactly why Christ said he would remain with his Church until the end of time and send the Holy Spirit to guide it into all truth. It is why Christ gave his own authority to the Church, so that the truth would never become distorted, but rather shine brighter as it has for centuries in the Catholic Church, which has outlived every man-made institution for the last 2000 years.

Rather than the Jews, more relevant to the discussion is why don’t you accept Christ? No one goes to the Father except through him, Tony, and he is not Baha’u’llah.

God bless you Steve - That question has been made clear many times, thus no use going over it again.

May Christ Bless us all with belief in “His” Word.

Regards Tony

 

[Techno2000]

SteveVH - Steve - The Word of God never dies, Christ Never Dies.

Our perception of Truth does. Mans interpretation slowly but inventively distorts the true meaning until nothing but an outer shell of Religion remains. This can be seen with the Jews. Why did they and why do they still not accept Christ? They still worship God, but what do you think remains of True Worship in that belief?

Do you see their Worship as needing an all important ingredient that they have not yet comes to terms with?

SteveVH - God has brought us an ever Advancing Revelation, to which Christ told us about and warned us to be prepared for. Christ was preparing us for the Kingdom of God on Earth as it is in Heaven, Baha’ullah has ushered in the Laws and Principles to make this so. This dispensation is to last another 500,000 years. All Prophets in the Future will be under the Shadow of this momentous Revelation.

All the Prophets of the past, including Christ longed for this day, the day when man has been given by God all that is needed to reach His potential. He prayed to the Father for this to be so.

Basically we, mankind, are all like a young child that has been given as a great gift all the books that contain all possible knowledge. Most of it is far superior to what we can currently know, but each day we read a bit more and a little more is known. The potential grows like a seed into a tree and the fruits become abundant.

I can not do the vision of topic justice dear friend in God. How can one see the potential of the recently planted seed of a giant oak, we are way too close to the planting and the full potential is for future generations to admire.

What is needed now is people to water the seed and that takes willing participants, as no one is forced by God to tend to a garden.

God Bless and Regards Tony

Tony, If the Catholic church only rested in Mans hands it would have fallen apart a long time ago.