Believing in the True Jesus - Christians vs Baha'is

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eddie_too said:
it is beyond disrespectful to Jesus to claim, as do the bahai and Mormons for example, that He was not capable of providing the Truth about God and Creation to the twelve apostles whom He spent three years educating.
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Dear Eddie too - Next to last post for a month or to, I notice you come back with the same replies. These have thoughts and questions been answered.

Dear Eddie - There is no disrespect to Christ and His word from God.

It is all but Mans shortcoming - Also please credit must be given to the Apostles that they too knew how much of the message that the current people would be receptive to. History has shown that they rejected the Truths, how much more would have they rejected if you told them about World Unity - You think in the past with Future Knowledge.

If you go back to that day and give the message of what the world today is, what would happen! It may be they would Crucify You.
eddie_too said:
what kind of messenger from God cannot even tell His followers simple truths in a manner that they can understand.
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When the Messenger does give the Simple Truths we reject them and plot to kill them. We still even today reject them, though we pride ourselves on our humbleness in Faith and Knowledge

What type of man are we that we do this.
eddie_too said:
upon this concept, that Jesus was not able to tell the Twelve what He wanted communicated by them to the world, rests the Bahia faith and the Mormon faith.
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This concept remains the property of those that reject the message in each age it is revealed.
eddie_too said:
their entire belief system is built upon the belief that the message the apostles gave to the world is essentially wrong. if it is wrong, then Jesus’ attempts to give the Truth to the apostles was in vain. so, to be a true bahai or Mormon or any other type of non-Christian cultist, one must first believe that Jesus was not gifted enough to educate the twelve in the Eternal and Divine mysteries.
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Not wrong, but to explain will be subject to more rejection
eddie_too said:
if that is not the ultimate putdown of Jesus, I am not sure what would be.
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Could it not be that the ultimate put down is of those that claim to be Followers of Christ but may not actually know Him
eddie_too said:
so, if I reject with vigor and spirit anything the bahai might present here, now you know why. calling my Jesus little more than a dunce opens no doors but provides motivation to make sure no one falls for such a line of garbage (that Jesus was a totally ineffective dunce is the garbage I am talking about and the garbage the bahai who post here are trying to sell.
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We do not ever use the words you just used about Christ - God forbid.
eddie_too said:
I fully expect the bahai who read this to try and explain that no, they truly respect Jesus and accord Him status as a messenger of God. they will in no way try to explain how their teaching that the apostles got everything Jesus taught wrong does not make Jesus an ineffective dunce.
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No comment
eddie_too said:
so, I reject totally and completely the pure attack on Jesus that the bahai are trying to sell in this thread.
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Our Judge and the Judge of all, is God - To all we sell not a thing, to all we offer another point of view as revealed by “The Father” Baha’u’llah “The Glory of God”.

It is free to take or leave, no charge 😉

We offer it in Love, we offer it in Respect, we offer knowing it is a challenge. God is the best of Challengers!

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
eddie_too said:
please fellow Christians remember, if Jesus is not of One Nature with the Father we are still in our sins and the Law still condemns us to separation from our Creator because Jesus’ sacrifice was no different from any other human being’s sacrifice. that being finite and the efforts of a creature before its Creator.

how does one make amends with a Perfect and Infinite Being? only with a Perfect and Infinite sacrifice.

perhaps it can be demonstrated at the purely human level. if someone with no money or assets broke in to a wealthy person’s house and stole something worth ten billion dollars and subsequently destroyed the precious object,how does the thief make it right with the wealthy owner? the thief can never make amends because the thief does not have the means to make amends. the thief is destined to forever be at odds with the wealthy person he or she offended.

we finite and imperfect humans are like the thief and the wealthy man is like our Creator. the theft is like our offenses against God. the object stolen is like God’s good will toward us.
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I cannot speak to the charge leveled against the Baha’i faith regarding its depiction of Jesus. But I must take issue with what you say about making amends with a “Perfect and Infinite Being.” According to the Jewish perspective, G-d created us in His image but He also created us with certain imperfections. To state the obvious, we are not the human equivalent of the divine G-d Himself. And since G-d alone is a Perfect Being, He must surely realize that His Law cannot be followed by us mere mortals in a perfect manner. Yet He still gave us the Law for our own benefit so that we would strive as best we are able to lead good, meaningful, moral lives by being offered as a priceless gift the guiding precepts which enable us to lead such lives. Thus, far from condemning us to separation from our Creator, the Law sanctifies us in the presence of our Creator.
 
I reject Bahaullah and his claim to be Jesus’ equal.

I reject Bahaullah and his rejection of the teachings of Jesus.

I reject the bahai claim that what Jesus taught has been unknown until Bahaullah arrived on the scene.

I understand that Bahaullah knew virtually nothing about Jesus and what Jesus taught.

I understand that Bahaullah was ignorant of most of what the RCC taught during his lifetime and what the RCC taught before his lifetime.

I understand that many men have come and claimed to know better than Jesus what God wants for mankind. it was thus from the very beginning of the RCC.

I understand that following Bahaullah and rejecting the teachings of the RCC leaves men in their sins. Jesus saves and there is nothing more important than that.

I understand that following Bahaullah makes it impossible to know and believe what Jesus taught. faith in Bahaullah means not knowing Jesus.

Jesus did teach He was God. Jesus did teach that there are Three Distinct Persons who share the Divine Nature equally, totally, eternally, without beginning and without end. Jesus did give authority to the Twelve. God has never removed that authority from the Twelve and their successors.

I understand the bahai reject those teachings of Jesus and His Church. you cannot follow both Bahaullah and Jesus.

I can pretend to be above it all, but that would be a lie. I am totally in, for and with Jesus and that requires me to remain involved in the salvation of souls.

Bahaullah is a very real threat to the salvation of souls. I pray constantly that souls will NOT BE DECEIVED by Bahaullah and his followers.

the promise of eternal life comes through Jesus and is made available to all who believe in Jesus.

i see NO REASON to worry about what other people might preach and teach because only through faith in Jesus can i attain to eternal life.

i am honest when i claim ONLY JESUS is important; and, i am totally unimpressed by people who wish-washily try and have it all ways by saying that all other figures who achieved recognition of their wisdom were equal but simply misunderstood until Bahaullah came along.

why do the followers of Bahaullah not encourage people to read the thousands of pages of nonsense that Bahaullah wrote? it might be that reading those pages are the most convincing evidence that Bahaullah has nothing of value to say.

Bahaullah places himself in opposition to Jesus. that is why he is dangerous to the salvation of souls.

i reject completely the very idea that either God or the Truths He has revealed can change.

Jesus died for my sins. Bahaullah lived for his own glory and self-gratification. the difference is essential.

persons who have never heard of Bahaullah miss out on nothing of importance. persons who have never heard of Jesus remain slaves to sin and miss out on the hope and promise of eternal life.

eternal life is available only through Jesus and that is the most important thing if not the only thing that matters.
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
I disagree with your assessment of the Old testament, I do not think it necessarily implies a Unitarianism. But tell me if it is possible your God can change why is it impossible for your God to cease to exist? What’s stopping him from taking the celestial suicide pill?
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According to your assertions, it is not a non-Jewish assessment of the Old Testament that is allowable.

What the Jews say goes
Just as you say that the Bahai assessment of the NT is not allowable either…

So according to your own standards your post above is invalid
Unless of course you agree that Jesus can tell the Jews what is truth, and Baha’u’llah can tell the Christians what is truth…

🙂

.
 
My oh my where do we start here eddie.

So many imaginations in this post dear friend.
eddie_too said:
it is beyond disrespectful to Jesus to claim, as do the bahai and Mormons for example, that He was not capable of providing the Truth about God and Creation to the twelve apostles whom He spent three years educating.
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Would you mind showing me where Baha’is have stated that Jesus was “not capable” of providing the Truth?

Or is that something you imagined dear friend?
what kind of messenger from God cannot even tell His followers simple truths in a manner that they can understand.
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Jesus taught the Apostles everything they needed to know.
upon this concept, that Jesus was not able to tell the Twelve what He wanted communicated by them to the world, rests the Bahia faith and the Mormon faith.
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This is another imagined statement about the Bahai Faith…🤷
their entire belief system is built upon the belief that the message the apostles gave to the world is essentially wrong. if it is wrong, then Jesus’ attempts to give the Truth to the apostles was in vain. so, to be a true bahai or Mormon or any other type of non-Christian cultist, one must first believe that Jesus was not gifted enough to educate the twelve in the Eternal and Divine mysteries.
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Again another figment of your imagination 🤷

There is a time when Truth is truth and another time when truth is built upon.
Before the time that Jesus walked the earth, were the Jews wrong in being Jewish? Did Moses lie? Was He really spoken to by the devil in the Burning Bush??
if that is not the ultimate putdown of Jesus, I am not sure what would be.
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Your imagination has created a holocaust that does not exist…🤷
so, if I reject with vigor and spirit anything the bahai might present here, now you know why.
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Yes I know why. Because you have a very active imagination, dear friend. Look with the eyes of PRECISION and CLARITY. (I present those two qualities to you as a gift from God)
calling my Jesus little more than a dunce opens no doors but provides motivation to make sure no one falls for such a line of garbage (that Jesus was a totally ineffective dunce is the garbage I am talking about and the garbage the bahai who post here are trying to sell.
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Wow…now I’m starting to get very sad and concerned about your thoughts…
I fully expect the bahai who read this to try and explain that no, they truly respect Jesus and accord Him status as a messenger of God. they will in no way try to explain how their teaching that the apostles got everything Jesus taught wrong does not make Jesus an ineffective dunce.
Click to expand...
so, I reject totally and completely the pure attack on Jesus that the bahai are trying to sell in this thread.
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Nobody is trying to sell anything here eddie. It is only you who is trying to make things up to promote a very malicious anti-Bahai agenda.

Please reflect on your actions and words…you owe it to Jesus…👍

.
 
Servant19 said:
Well now you are contradicting yourself where you stated:

You do realise that the Perfect One was sacrificed at some point in time right?
This means that BEFORE that time, according to your statement, no one was saved…

🤷

.
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Really, Servant? You can’t put that together? Before Christ’s sacrifice the gates of heaven were closed. But this eternal sacrifice opened the gates of heaven for those before Christ and after Christ. The dead waited for his coming and then he rescued them before he rose on the third day. What is so difficult to understand? It doesn’t mean that anyone who lived before Christ was lost. I never said that so please don’t imply that I did.

No one gets into heaven except through Christ, no matter when they lived.
 
eddie_too said:
why do the followers of Bahaullah not encourage people to read the thousands of pages of nonsense that Bahaullah wrote? it might be that reading those pages are the most convincing evidence that Bahaullah has nothing of value to say.
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Eddie Too - The most glaring falsehood of your statement posted above is this statement I have quoted.

The Tens of Thousands of posts that have links to the document we have quoted from, also have the suggestion that you should read the rest of the documents. We always encourage every person to read the Word for themselves. 🤷

Matter of fact we keep getting told by the Forum Members to stop posting Quotes from the Writings and put it in our own Words, God forbid I ever want to do that!

Why do you choose as a Christian to post outright deception? 😊

We post not to deceive, not to condemn your choice of the way to Love Christ, but to try to impart to you why we believe what we believe.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
SteveVH said:
Really, Servant? You can’t put that together? Before Christ’s sacrifice the gates of heaven were closed. But this eternal sacrifice opened the gates of heaven for those before Christ and after Christ. The dead waited for his coming and then he rescued them before he rose on the third day. What is so difficult to understand? It doesn’t mean that anyone who lived before Christ was lost. I never said that so please don’t imply that I did.

No one gets into heaven except through Christ, no matter when they lived.
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There is so much that does not make sense here Steve…

Christ’s sacrifice occurred on earth, at a specific moment in TIME.

Heaven is outside of TIME.

Since when did heaven become entrapped in the framework of TIME, by being opened/closed by an act that occurred within TIME???

🤷

If I may, humbly, I will provide a Baha’i perspective to what is meant here by the doors of heaven closing/opening with Jesus’ sacrifice.
Its very simple, and we can elaborate further if we wish, and this ties in with death, resurrection and being reborn.
The moment Jesus came and the sacrifice was made, all of humanity fell into sin. Those who witnessed Jesus and heard His revelation were judged according to their acceptance or rejection of God’s revelation, and heaven or hell were beckoning for them. Those who never heard of Jesus (and even until today this is Catholic teaching) are reliant on God’s mercy. Heaven was opened to those that believed and closed to those that willingly rejected. Those that believed were reborn, resurrected, for it was the Last Days. Those that willingly rejected were amongst the sleeping, the dead and the forgotten.

This reality was no different when Moses came into the picture and revealed the Commandments. A new heaven and a new earth is created with the coming of each Manifestation of God. Those that believe are amongst the resurrected and the doors of heaven are opened. Those that willingly reject are amongst the sleeping and the spiritually dead…

.
 
This Tablet was Addressed to all Christians, we invite all to Read this Tablet - reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/TB/tb-3.html

If you wish to see what the following closing words of the Tablet have in common with the Revelation of Christ, then please look at this link - newadvent.org/cathen/02371a.htm

These are the Closing Words of this Tablet

Say:
Blessed the slumberer who is awakened by My Breeze.
Blessed the lifeless one who is quickened through My reviving breaths.
Blessed the eye that is solaced by gazing at My beauty.
Blessed the wayfarer who directeth his steps towards the Tabernacle of My glory and majesty.
Blessed the distressed one who seeketh refuge beneath the shadow of My canopy.
Blessed the sore athirst who hasteneth to the soft-flowing waters of My loving-kindness.
Blessed the insatiate soul who casteth away his selfish desires for love of Me and taketh his place at the banquet table which I have sent down from the heaven of divine bounty for My chosen ones.
Blessed the abased one who layeth fast hold on the cord of My glory; and the needy one who entereth beneath the shadow of the Tabernacle of My wealth.
Blessed the ignorant one who seeketh the fountain of My knowledge; and the heedless one who cleaveth to the cord of My remembrance.
Blessed the soul that hath been raised to life through My quickening breath and hath gained admittance into My heavenly Kingdom.
Blessed the man whom the sweet savours of reunion with Me have stirred and caused to draw nigh unto the Dayspring of My Revelation.
Blessed the ear that hath heard and the tongue that hath borne witness and the eye that hath seen and recognized the Lord Himself, in His great glory and majesty, invested with grandeur and dominion.
Blessed are they that have attained His presence.
Blessed the man who hath sought enlightenment from the Day-Star of My Word.
Blessed he who hath attired his head with the diadem of My love.
Blessed is he who hath heard of My grief and hath arisen to aid Me among My people.
Blessed is he who hath laid down his life in My path and hath borne manifold hardships for the sake of My Name.
Blessed the man who, assured of My Word, hath arisen from among the dead to celebrate My praise.
Blessed is he that hath been enraptured by My wondrous melodies and hath rent the veils asunder through the potency of My might.
Blessed is he who hath remained faithful to My Covenant, and whom the things of the world have not kept back from attaining My Court of holiness.
Blessed is the man who hath detached himself from all else but Me, hath soared in the atmosphere of My love, hath gained admittance into My Kingdom, gazed upon My realms of glory, quaffed the living waters of My bounty, hath drunk his fill from the heavenly river of My loving providence, acquainted himself with My Cause, apprehended that which I concealed within the treasury of My Words, and hath shone forth from the horizon of divine knowledge engaged in My praise and glorification. Verily, he is of Me. Upon him rest My mercy, My loving-kindness, My bounty and My glory.

Yes God Bless all and Regards Tony
 
tonyfish58 said:
This Tablet was Addressed to all Christians, we invite all to Read this Tablet - reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/TB/tb-3.html

If you wish to see what the following closing words of the Tablet have in common with the Revelation of Christ, then please look at this link - newadvent.org/cathen/02371a.htm

These are the Closing Words of this Tablet

Say:
Blessed the slumberer who is awakened by My Breeze.
Blessed the lifeless one who is quickened through My reviving breaths.
Blessed the eye that is solaced by gazing at My beauty.
Blessed the wayfarer who directeth his steps towards the Tabernacle of My glory and majesty.
Blessed the distressed one who seeketh refuge beneath the shadow of My canopy.
Blessed the sore athirst who hasteneth to the soft-flowing waters of My loving-kindness.
Blessed the insatiate soul who casteth away his selfish desires for love of Me and taketh his place at the banquet table which I have sent down from the heaven of divine bounty for My chosen ones.
Blessed the abased one who layeth fast hold on the cord of My glory; and the needy one who entereth beneath the shadow of the Tabernacle of My wealth.
Blessed the ignorant one who seeketh the fountain of My knowledge; and the heedless one who cleaveth to the cord of My remembrance.
Blessed the soul that hath been raised to life through My quickening breath and hath gained admittance into My heavenly Kingdom.
Blessed the man whom the sweet savours of reunion with Me have stirred and caused to draw nigh unto the Dayspring of My Revelation.
Blessed the ear that hath heard and the tongue that hath borne witness and the eye that hath seen and recognized the Lord Himself, in His great glory and majesty, invested with grandeur and dominion.
Blessed are they that have attained His presence.
Blessed the man who hath sought enlightenment from the Day-Star of My Word.
Blessed he who hath attired his head with the diadem of My love.
Blessed is he who hath heard of My grief and hath arisen to aid Me among My people.
Blessed is he who hath laid down his life in My path and hath borne manifold hardships for the sake of My Name.
Blessed the man who, assured of My Word, hath arisen from among the dead to celebrate My praise.
Blessed is he that hath been enraptured by My wondrous melodies and hath rent the veils asunder through the potency of My might.
Blessed is he who hath remained faithful to My Covenant, and whom the things of the world have not kept back from attaining My Court of holiness.
Blessed is the man who hath detached himself from all else but Me, hath soared in the atmosphere of My love, hath gained admittance into My Kingdom, gazed upon My realms of glory, quaffed the living waters of My bounty, hath drunk his fill from the heavenly river of My loving providence, acquainted himself with My Cause, apprehended that which I concealed within the treasury of My Words, and hath shone forth from the horizon of divine knowledge engaged in My praise and glorification. Verily, he is of Me. Upon him rest My mercy, My loving-kindness, My bounty and My glory.

Yes God Bless all and Regards Tony
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Tony, I guess this is a small part of the “thousands of pages of nonsense” that eddie too was talking about right?

.
 
Servant19 said:
Tony, I guess this is a small part of the “thousands of pages of nonsense” that was mentioned above? .
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Servant Dear Friend 😉

What Blessings, calling us to Total Love of God, Calling us to Gods Wisdom, Calling us to all we could possibly be.

It is a Call, we do not have to respond!

Why would we choose not to respond!

God doeth as He willeth and Gives His Bounty to He Chooseth, who are we to reject those Choices?

Our covenant with God is to know Him and to Love Him and not to reject His Messengers.

May God bless all Humanity with the Knowledge of ALL His Manifestations! Regards Tony
 
Servant19 said:
There is so much that does not make sense here Steve…

Christ’s sacrifice occurred on earth, at a specific moment in TIME.

Heaven is outside of TIME.

Since when did heaven become entrapped in the framework of TIME, by being opened/closed by an act that occurred within TIME???

🤷

If I may, humbly, I will provide a Baha’i perspective to what is meant here by the doors of heaven closing/opening with Jesus’ sacrifice.
Its very simple, and we can elaborate further if we wish, and this ties in with death, resurrection and being reborn.
The moment Jesus came and the sacrifice was made, all of humanity fell into sin. Those who witnessed Jesus and heard His revelation were judged according to their acceptance or rejection of God’s revelation, and heaven or hell were beckoning for them. Those who never heard of Jesus (and even until today this is Catholic teaching) are reliant on God’s mercy. Heaven was opened to those that believed and closed to those that willingly rejected. Those that believed were reborn, resurrected, for it was the Last Days. Those that willingly rejected were amongst the sleeping, the dead and the forgotten.

This reality was no different when Moses came into the picture and revealed the Commandments. A new heaven and a new earth is created with the coming of each Manifestation of God. Those that believe are amongst the resurrected and the doors of heaven are opened. Those that willingly reject are amongst the sleeping and the spiritually dead…

.
Click to expand...
jesus-passion.com/THE_PASSION6.htm#CHAPTER%20LIX
 
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