Believing in the True Jesus - Christians vs Baha'is

  • Thread starter Thread starter GuyNextDoor
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Servant19 said:
Techno, when Jesus ascended into the clouds, did He actually fly up and up and beyond the physical clouds that you and I see in the sky every day? Is Jesus in the physical heavens, as in somewhere, occupying a space in the sky?

.
Click to expand...


Empyrean Heaven
 
Servant19 said:
Dear Michael,

I am lost as to how your post resolves my quandary …

Would you mind elaborating please?

God bless you 🙂

.
Click to expand...
You quoted St. Paul in his letter to the Church at Corinth to support your belief that flesh and blood do not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, therefore that must mean that Christ was not resurrected in physical body and his physical body did not enter into heaven. I showed you other quotes from the same chapter to show you that Paul was not talking about Jesus because in fact Jesus did die and was raised from the dead. I also showed other verses referencing Jesus’ bodily resurrection.
 
Michael1978 said:
Dear friend, if not for the death and bodily resurrection of Christ Jesus our faith would be without meaning. Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead. . Not just a spiritual ascension into heaven, but a physical bodily resurrection. Just as it is appointed for all men to die. The faithful will one day be in heaven with glorified physical bodies, just like Jesus. I know this is not a belief we share, but you should understand the Christian point of view.
Click to expand...
Dear Michael1978 - The Resurrection of Christ is all meaning dear friend - This talk about that subject is how it is most commonly thought about as a Baha’i - bahai-library.com/foster_resurrection_bahai_perspective

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Question, when people of the Baha’i faith pray, do they pray to Bahá’u’lláh ?
 
Techno2000 said:
Question, when people of the Baha’i faith pray, do they pray to Bahá’u’lláh ?
Click to expand...
Well, I can’t speak for every Baha’i, and I am certainly fallible, but I do indeed pray to Baha’u’llah. Not every time I pray but usually everyday.
 
Michael1978 said:
You quoted St. Paul in his letter to the Church at Corinth to support your belief that flesh and blood do not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, therefore that must mean that Christ was not resurrected in physical body and his physical body did not enter into heaven. I showed you other quotes from the same chapter to show you that Paul was not talking about Jesus because in fact Jesus did die and was raised from the dead. I also showed other verses referencing Jesus’ bodily resurrection.
Click to expand...
Thankyou dear Michael. Does Paul ever talk about a physical resurrection in any of his Letters?

I like Paul’s letters since His Letters, along with Peter, are the earliest authoritative texts of the Christian community.

.
 
Techno2000 said:
Question, when people of the Baha’i faith pray, do they pray to Bahá’u’lláh ?
Click to expand...
Techno2000 To expand upon this answer a little, We Pray only to God.

The Prayer is offered to God through His Current Manifestation, but there is no reason that a prayer reveal led in past revelations can not be offered through that Prophet.

Thus a Baha’i can offer the Lords Prayer through Christ or Baha’u’llah.

We have prayers revealed by the Bab, Baha’ullah and Abdul’Baha and we are guided to offer them through Baha’u’llah.

The Reason is that it is the Manifestation that Has come Revealed the Message from God and Suffered for us, it is the Messenger we know and He is the Chosen link between us and our Creator.

Thus it can be said To Pray to Christ we Pray to God, to pray to God we Pray to Christ.

We have been told we can also offer prayers through the chosen Interpreters of Baha’u’llahs Words, that is Abdul’Baha and Shoghi Effendi, providing that we acknowledge the above Guidance as to the offered prayer.
 
Servant19 said:
Is Jacobs ladder available for me to see somewhere Techno, and can I, using my physical body also climb this ladder?

.
Click to expand...
Jacob was shown this vision in way that his human mind could understand,
but it would akin to the tunnel in NDEs
 
Techno2000 said:
So Baha’u’llah didn’t give you the terminology of the place where he resides
so you have to try and use Christian terminology ?
Click to expand...
Dear Techno - In the Baha’i Writings this is a Massive Subject, to say “Heaven”, is just a one Word Summary, if you like here is but one explanation as to where our Souls will Reside.

I have highlighted some interesting aspects;

Life After Death - reference.bahai.org/en/t/o/BNE/bne-153.html

Bahá’u’lláh tells us that the life in the flesh is but the embryonic stage of our existence, and that escape from the body is like a new birth through which the human spirit enters on a fuller, freer life. He writes:—

Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty. The movement of My Pen is stilled when it attempteth to befittingly describe the loftiness and glory of so exalted a station. The honor with which the Hand of Mercy will invest the soul is such as no tongue can adequately reveal, nor any other earthly agency describe. Blessed is the soul which, at the hour of its separation from the body, is sanctified from the vain imaginings of the peoples of the world. Such a soul liveth and moveth in accordance with the Will of its Creator, and entereth the all-highest Paradise. The Maids of Heaven, inmates of the loftiest mansions, will circle around it, and the Prophets of God and His chosen ones will seek its companionship. With them that soul will freely converse, and will recount unto them that which it hath been made to endure in the path of God, the Lord of all worlds. If any man be told that which hath been ordained for such a soul in the worlds of God, the Lord of the** throne on high** and of earth below, his whole being will instantly blaze out in his great longing to attain that most exalted, that sanctified and resplendent station. … The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men. The Prophets and Messengers of God have been sent down for the sole purpose underlying their revelation hath been to educate all men, that they may, at the hour of death, ascend, in the utmost purity and sanctity and with absolute detachment, to the throne of the Most High. The light which these souls radiate is responsible for the progress of the world and the advancement of its peoples. They are like unto leaven which leaveneth the world of being, and constitute the animating force through which the arts and wonders of the world are made manifest. Through them the clouds rain their bounty upon men, and the earth bringeth forth its fruits. All things must needs have a cause, a motive power, an animating principle. These souls and symbols of detachment have provided, and will continue to provide, the supreme moving impulse in the world of being. The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother.—Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 155–157.

Similarly, ‘Abdu’l-Bahá writes:—

The mysteries of which man is heedless in the earthly world, those will he discover in the heavenly world, and there will he be informed of the secrets of the truth; how much more will he recognize or discover persons with whom he has been associated. Undoubtedly the holy souls who find a pure eye and are favored with insight will, in the kingdom of lights, be acquainted with all mysteries, and will seek the bounty of witnessing the reality of every great soul. They will even manifestly behold the Beauty of God in that world. Likewise will they find all the friends of God, both those of the former and recent times, present in the heavenly assemblage.

The difference and distinction between men will naturally become realized after their departure from this mortal world. But this distinction is not in respect to place, but in respect to the soul and the conscience. For the Kingdom of God is sanctified (or free) from time and place; it is another world and another universe. And know thou for a certainty that in the divine worlds the spiritual beloved ones will recognize one another, and will seek union with each other, but a spiritual union. Likewise a love that one may have entertained for anyone will not be forgotten in the world of the Kingdom, nor wilt thou forget there the life that thou hadst in the material world.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
tonyfish58 said:
Techno2000 To expand upon this answer a little, We Pray only to God.

The Prayer is offered to God through His Current Manifestation, but there is no reason that a prayer reveal led in past revelations can not be offered through that Prophet.

Thus a Baha’i can offer the Lords Prayer through Christ or Baha’u’llah.

We have prayers revealed by the Bab, Baha’ullah and Abdul’Baha and we are guided to offer them through Baha’u’llah.

The Reason is that it is the Manifestation that Has come Revealed the Message from God and Suffered for us, it is the Messenger we know and He is the Chosen link between us and our Creator.

Thus it can be said To Pray to Christ we Pray to God, to pray to God we Pray to Christ.

We have been told we can also offer prayers through the chosen Interpreters of Baha’u’llahs Words, that is Abdul’Baha and Shoghi Effendi, providing that we acknowledge the above Guidance as to the offered prayer.
Click to expand...
So where in the Baha’i scriptures does it say that Baha’ullah resides in Heaven.
 
Techno2000 said:
So Baha’u’llah didn’t give you the terminology of the place where he resides
so you have to try and use Christian terminology ?
Click to expand...
Ok…

Personally I think you may struggle with this, but let’s see 🙂

In Arabic terminology, Baha’u’llah resides in a realm termed lahut and this is expounded into several different terms which all mean the same thing:

“All Glorious Horizon, Lord of Lords, Tongue of Grandeur, Most Exalted Pen, Primal Will, First Intelligence. This realm is the first emanation from God, the first revelation of the Essence of God”

Some Bahai scholars have also elaborated further still:
láhút : This is the realm in which the potentialities hidden within the Essence of God are first actualized and revealed, but still within the Godhead; the realm of “He is He and there is none but He.” In this realm, the divine names and attributes, potential and concealed in the realm of háhút, achieve existence. This realm is the first emanation from God, the first revelation of the Essence of God. In Bahá’í terminology, it has variously been named the Heavenly Court, or the All-Glorious Horizon; and the manifestation of God in this station is called the Lord of Lords, the Tongue of Grandeur, the Most Exalted Pen, the Primal Will, the First Intelligence. In other religious dispensations it has been identified as Jehovah, the Speaker on Sinai, the Logos or Word of God, and the Nous or Divine Intellect.(Momen, Relativism p.191)
Click to expand...
.
 
Techno2000 said:
Jacob was shown this vision in way that his human mind could understand,
but it would akin to the tunnel in NDEs
Click to expand...
Interesting you say that as in NDEs the Body is dead laying on the table and the person in Spirit is Drawn towards the light.

Most people that have NDE’s realize they are more then their bodies. The numerous writings of the Baha’i Faith on this subject open such doors to this understanding, knock and it will be opened 😉 👍

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top