Ben Carson and "immigrants"

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joshman1 said:
If you read both quotes and think theyre the same, Im sorry but there’s no hope for you.
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Could you please expound on how they are different?

My observations on their similarities:
  1. Both referred to slaves as, in a way, immigrants.
  2. Both referred to how it wasn’t easy (obviously) for Africans brought here as slaves.
  3. Both referred to slaves having hope for the future of their descendants despite their condition and believing in the ideals of “America.”
In addition, it would be nice if you didn’t make rude comments about people who see things differently than you do. It’s not like what was said is so objectively evil or intrinsically disordered that it cries out to Heaven for a response.

May God bless you all! 🙂
 
Richard_White said:
Could you please expound on how they are different?

My observations on their similarities:
  1. Both referred to slaves as, in a way, immigrants.
  2. Both referred to how it wasn’t easy (obviously) for Africans brought here as slaves.
  3. Both referred to slaves having hope for the future of their descendants despite their condition and believing in the ideals of “America.”
In addition, it would be nice if you didn’t make rude comments about people who see things differently than you do. It’s not like what was said is so objectively evil or intrinsically disordered that it cries out to Heaven for a response.

May God bless you all! 🙂
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You really think the below is the same as Carsons quote?

Obama explained, “it wasn’t easy for those of African heritage who had not come here voluntarily and yet in their own way were immigrants themselves. There was discrimination and hardship and poverty.”
 
joshman1 said:
You really think the below is the same as Carsons quote?

Obama explained, “it wasn’t easy for those of African heritage who had not come here voluntarily and yet in their own way were immigrants themselves. There was discrimination and hardship and poverty.”
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Carson’s parallel: “There were other immigrants who came here in the bottom of slave ships, worked even longer, even harder for less.”
 
joshman1 said:
If you read both quotes and think theyre the same, Im sorry but there’s no hope for you.
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She posted a link to an article and said nothing else. Why the need to make such a disparaging comment? :confused: you have no idea what she thinks.
 
joshman1 said:
If you read both quotes and think theyre the same, Im sorry but there’s no hope for you.
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It is very telling how alt-left some are for some of the assumptions they make to reach a conclusion.
 
Richard_White said:
Carson’s parallel: “There were other immigrants who came here in the bottom of slave ships, worked even longer, even harder for less.”
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I mean, I guess he left out the non-voluntary part. I don’t particularly like either quote, but this wasn’t my ancestors’ experience, so it’s not my job to police them IMO.
 
joshman1 said:
This isn’t the same thing at all.
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How will you twist this?

*Certainly, it wasn’t easy for those of African heritage who had not come here voluntarily and yet in their own way were immigrants themselves. There was discrimination and hardship and poverty.
*
 
joshman1 said:
This isn’t the same thing at all.
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Again, you say this while simultaneously providing no proof to substantiate your claim. The two paragraph-length quotes are almost exactly the same, and somehow you are seeing them as different.
AClaire11 said:
I mean, I guess he left out the non-voluntary part. I don’t particularly like either quote, but this wasn’t my ancestors’ experience, so it’s not my job to police them IMO.
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If this is the only thing that joshman1 can find different about the two, then that is quite a stretch. Everyone knows that slaves were not brought here voluntarily and so I think it is perfectly acceptable to leave out those exact words. The whole point for both Obama and Carson was merely that African Americans, despite their history and their forced migration to the United States, over the many years of their servitude hoped for freedom and the opportunity to share in the benefits of American society one day.
 
AClaire11 said:
I mean, I guess he left out the non-voluntary part. I don’t particularly like either quote, but this wasn’t my ancestors’ experience, so it’s not my job to police them IMO.
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There’s a great most if not all people have had an ancestor who was sold into slavery as historian Neal Boortz noted.
 
Many, many Americans are descended from people who came here as indentured servants or people dumped from debtors’ prisons in Europe. Yet, those descendants would still consider themselves the descendants of “immigrants”.

If I’m not mistaken, virtually the whole population of Australia is descended from the like.

It’s true that the journey of a slave was even worse than the horrific journey on ships from Europe like the “David Crockett”, though neither left anything to be desired. But we need to remember too that those who were loaded on slave ships were slaves before they boarded. They were the slaves of Arab or African traders. Landing at Charleston and arriving at a tobacco plantation was undoubtedly miserable, but it could very well have been better than their enslaved conditions before they left Africa.

But regardless, if there is anything meritorious about being “descended from immigrants” blacks should be deemed to share it.
 
Ridgerunner said:
But regardless, if there is anything meritorious about being “descended from immigrants” blacks should be deemed to share it.
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Most of the world’s population outside of Africa is descended from immigrants since all of our ancestors came from Africa.
 
If slaves weren’t immigrants we can also say that illegals brought here as children are also not immigrants. The Dreamers are no longer immigrants, if the left is consistent. This makes it that much easier to send them back to their true home. We don’t have to worry about hearing about how they are happier here since that is now a vile racist thought.
 
SuperLuigi said:
Actually, the first Africans in North America weren’t slaves. They were contracted workers to help tobacco farmers.
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He said, “in the bottom of slave ships.” He was referring to slaves. I have no problem with the use of the word immigrant. It it technically correct, though it was a forced immigration. His use of the word “came” was poor. “Were brought” would have been accurate.

But the idea that they had a dream of prosperity and happiness in this land was ludicrous. Why would anyone dream of happiness in a land of torture and slavery in a strange land when they were from a land familiar and free?

The man should study his history a little more if he is going to comment on it. Slavery and immigration have precious little in common outside of a human who was born in one country and now is in another.
 
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