Ben Carson: It's 'racist' that blacks have the highest abortion rate

[Victoria33]

Another falsehood.

The first link is from the Hill, about as mainstream as you can get.

Dems look to crack down on anti-abortion ‘crisis pregnancy centers’

Democrats in the House and Senate are looking to stop what they say are deceptive advertising practices by anti-abortion health clinics that imply they offer abortion services, but instead encourag…

thehill.com

https://www.liveaction.org/news/democrats-conspire-to-control-speech-of-crisis-pregnancy-centers/

U.S. Democrats target crisis pregnancy centers with new bill - LifeSite

CPC's serve women facing unexpected pregnancies with counseling and factual information about parenthood, adoption and abortion.

www.lifesitenews.com

Another falsehood**, if you mean centers that offer real aid to pregnant women, and not just misinformation centers with lots of misinformation and no aid. Those I could see being opposed.**

So, one actually accuses Crisis Pregnancy Centers of not caring about women and just giving out misinformation. Wow, just wow.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Hmm, what Centers are there that offer ‘misinformation and no aid?” Inquiring minds want to know.

I’ll have to wait and see what centers Victoria33 cites as evidence of Democrats wanting to shut them down, and then I can tell you.

Edit: OK, it looks like Victoria33 has cited some articles, and I refer you to the first one from The Hill. It is notable that they put the title of “crisis pregnancy center” in quotes, which usually means the title is not all that applicable to what they do. But the article explains it better than I could, so just read it.

 

[Victoria33]

Hmm, what Centers are there that offer ‘misinformation and no aid?” Inquiring minds want to know.

I think the “misinformation” may be encouraging birth and adoption. See Hill article above.

“No aid”, I don’t think such exists.

 

[JonNC]

Those institutions are not racist, and even if they were, the conclusion that your are unwilling to state outright because it would sound so ridiculous, would still not be true.

Oh, I’m not unwilling to state it. If they are institutionally racist. Those who have been in control of them for decades are clearly responsible.
But that said, I agree with you in rejecting the constantly repeated false claim of systemic and institutional racism in America.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I think the “misinformation” may be encouraging birth and adoption.

I am all for encouraging birth and adoption, but not through misinformation and scare tactics. I would rather see it done through positive encouragement, like guaranteed OBGYN services at no cost to the women.

 

[Victoria33]

I am all for encouraging birth and adoption, but not through misinformation and scare tactics. I would rather see it done through positive encouragement, like guaranteed OBGYN services at no cost to the women.

You have provide no information that that is not provided. None at all.

We must say too, what kind of record does one speak from? Have they supported a party that heavily promotes abortion in the first one place? That’s not my business but I believe I am done here. Thanks to all for the conversation.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

I am all for encouraging birth and adoption, but not through misinformation and scare tactics. I would rather see it done through positive encouragement, like guaranteed OBGYN services at no cost to the women.

You have provide no information that that is not provided. None at all.

Your own TheHill article does that for me.

 

[JonNC]

I am all for encouraging birth and adoption, but not through misinformation and scare tactics. I would rather see it done through positive encouragement, like guaranteed OBGYN services at no cost to the women.

Are you personally guaranteeing it? Or are you proposing government compels others into “volunteering“ to do so?
If you are doing the latter, I stand by my proposal that PP and other abortion industry participants repurpose their funds to that cause.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Are you personally guaranteeing it? Or are you proposing government compels others into “volunteering“ to do so?

The latter, just like the government compels others into “volunteering” to pay your salary as a teacher.

If you are doing the latter, I stand by my proposal that PP and other abortion industry participants repurpose their funds to that cause.

If you really think PP and abortion industry participants are best equipped to deliver complicated deliveries, such as C-sections, I suppose we could funnel a lot more money their way. But I frankly don’t think they are well qualified to handle it. I would rather see that money go directly to pay the women’s normal hospital charges for such delivery services, than to give it to PP. I mean, we could totally put PP out of business by offering for free everything they offer (except abortion, of course).

 

[JonNC]

The latter, just like the government compels others into “volunteering” to pay your salary as a teacher.

Not the general government. Plus I worked for that salary. I provided a service.

If you really think PP and abortion industry participants are best equipped to deliver complicated deliveries, such as C-sections, I suppose we could funnel a lot more money their way.

No. I don’t. So let’s take tax dollars away from them toward your purpose if you think that’s the role of government.

I mean, we could totally put PP out of business by offering for free everything they offer (except abortion, of course).

Nothing is free. Government cannot offer something for free.

 

[Victoria33]

Someone makes it so sex-selective abortions and even the right to abort down-syndrome children available. I am not well versed in the law here but I find that to be extremely wrong. So, it’s hardly just “well, they aren’t twisting someone’s arm to have an abortion”, they do all to make it available. Even President Bill Clinton had the view that abortions should be “safe, legal and rare”.

Now, Pelosi wants US taxpayers to pay for abortion.

Pelosi Says Tax Dollars Will Fund Free Abortions for Medicaid Recipients in 2021 | National Review

The Hyde amendment is in peril as never before.

www.nationalreview.com

This is all very alarming.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

The latter, just like the government compels others into “volunteering” to pay your salary as a teacher.

Not the general government. Plus I worked for that salary. I provided a service.

So do the doctors who do C-sections. They also work for their salary and provide a service. That is what I am suggesting - that we pay doctors to do that the same way we pay teachers to teach our kids.

LeafByNiggle:

I mean, we could totally put PP out of business by offering for free everything they offer (except abortion, of course).

Nothing is free. Government cannot offer something for free.

Free to those using the service, just like public school is free to the kids attending. Of course the adults pay taxes to pay for it, so it is not free to society at large. But what I’m sure you knew I meant was that the service would be free to those using it.

 

[JonNC]

So do the doctors who do C-sections. They also work for their salary and provide a service. That is what I am suggesting - that we pay doctors to do that the same way we pay teachers to teach our kids.

So, you think adult women and men who make the adult choice to do that which they know may result in pregnancy should be treated by our government like children going to school.

For the record, I do not. Adults make adult choices that they should pay for. In fact, they received the education opportunity to prepare them to be independent and sovereign individuals.

Free to those using the service, just like public school is free to the kids attending.

Neither are free. They cost money. Schools cost money. Healthcare costs money. Children may deserve an education paid for by state and local tax dollars, but adults are expected to pay for their own needs, and when they simply can’t, people of faith in charity should be there to help.

Of course the adults pay taxes to pay for it, so it is not free to society at large

Then do not say it is free.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

So do the doctors who do C-sections. They also work for their salary and provide a service. That is what I am suggesting - that we pay doctors to do that the same way we pay teachers to teach our kids.

So, you think adult women and men who make the adult choice to do that which they know may result in pregnancy should be treated by our government like children going to school.

No, I think the child in the womb should be given the same respect and care by the government as the child that needs an education. It is for the children, not for the adults, that we would provide this care. If we owe them an education, we also owe them a safe birth.

Children may deserve an education paid for by state and local tax dollars, but adults are expected to pay for their own needs,

As I said, the care is for the child, not the parents. The parents may also benefit from that care, but so do the parents benefit from having an educated child. The benefit I am suggesting is for the sake of the babies.

Then do not say it is free.

It is free in the same sense the public school is free. But if it bothers you so much that I use the word free to describe both public education and this proposed delivery service, then I will use a different word from now on.

 

[vz71]

PP doesn’t decide who comes to them for abortions. Their clients decide to wipe out their own babies.

Margaret Sanger would be proud.

 

[JonNC]

No, I think the child in the womb should be given the same respect and care by the government as the child that needs an education.

I do, too, and that responsibility is the parents, not the government.

It is for the children, not for the adults, that we would provide this care. If we owe them an education, we also owe them a safe birth.

The responsibility of the parents.

It is free in the same sense the public school is free

Public schools are in no sense free.

But if it bothers you so much that I use the word free to describe both public education and this proposed delivery service, then I will use a different word from now on.

You could say at the expense of the taxpayers. That would be accurate.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

No, I think the child in the womb should be given the same respect and care by the government as the child that needs an education.

I do, too, and that responsibility is the parents, not the government.

Yet you participated in the government system to deliver that education, and still you oppose a system where doctors do the same thing for babies that you do for school-age children. That is inconsistent.

But if it bothers you so much that I use the word free to describe both public education and this proposed delivery service, then I will use a different word from now on.

You could say at the expense of the taxpayers. That would be accurate.

OK, I think OBGYN services for the benefit of the babies should be at the expense of the taxpayers, just like primary education is at the expense of the taxpayers.

 

[Victoria33]

This is a very sensitive subject and I appreciate that but if one looks into the matter, I believe the Vatican makes it pretty clear, we should not vote for politicians that enable abortion AND if they do and we are faced with a choice (among many others choices I would think), choose the most pro-life politician, not the perfect pro-life politician because that might not exist.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm

None of us are perfect, just saying.

So, one reading of this can, at the very least, just warn us against those who “enable”, not all of this about “forcing” it and so on.

 

[JonNC]

Yet you participated in the government system to deliver that education, and still you oppose a system where doctors do the same thing for babies that you do for school-age children. That is inconsistent.

Nothing inconsistent at all. I worked for the state of North Carolina. Now, if you think your state should require its residents to pay for medical care, take it to your legislature.

OK, I think OBGYN services for the benefit of the babies should be at the expense of the taxpayers, just like primary education is at the expense of the taxpayers.

That’s fine. Lobby your state legislature.

 

[Feanor2]

I believe that abortion clinics set themselves up where the business and money is and that’s in low-income neighborhoods.

Abortion is just one more factor in the constellation of oppression facing African Americans.