Ben Stein: Science Leads to Killing People

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MaryJohnZ said:
Dear Tim, I am not a scientist, but my daughter is training as an archeology student at Mercyhurst in PA and she agreed that the science community is not as open to questions as it should be. believe me she has heard the Darwinian view in her classes.

I am sure there are extremist on the Creationist side, but I felt Ben Stein was merely asking for the science community to be open to putting ALL questions out on the table. That was what I walked away with as a non-scientist.

And as to him discussing Planned Parenthood and eugenics, it was a breathe of fresh air!..I haven’t seen that openly discussed anywhere in the main stream media. It was healing for me to hear someone say it and that by itself made the movie worthwhile.

The fact that I could only go see this movie in one theater in the entire area of Southern New Hampshire further points out how prejudiced people are and threatened by someone bringing out these points. Michael Moore and his ilke never had such problems gettying his ‘documentaries’ in the theaters and I doubt they had half the value of Ben Stein’s film. It opened a discussion…or it could open a discussion, if it were allowed to be heard. from what I saw, it was being allowed.

maryJohnz
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I understand that you are not a scientist, and neither am I. All you have to do is learn the DEFINITION of science to understand that ID can not be part of a legitimate science curriculum.
 
The_Barbarian said:
What he said was that scientists were telling his relatives to go into the gas chambers.

It’s possible that he’s deranged and simply lives in some kind of dark Luddite fantasy, but other than that, it’s hard to escape the conclusion that he’s evil. That’s a lie of Nixonian proportions.

But then, his job was to write lies for Nixon. Hard to break old habits, I guess.
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So there were no scientists involved? Who figured out to move away from truck exhaust to the chemicals they used? There were no scientists at any of the camps?
 
buffalo said:
So there were no scientists involved? Who figured out to move away from truck exhaust to the chemicals they used? There were no scientists at any of the camps?
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Did anyone ever say that there were no scientists involved? Of course there were. Just like there were doctors, nurses, engineers, accountants, architects, electricians, construction workers, tailors, plumbers, police officers, truck drivers, train operators and members of any other profession that Hitler could draft into and use in his evil machinery. Who do you think built and ran the camps, kept the records, and rounded up, transported, and processed the Jews upon arrival? Who do you think designed, built, and operated those gas chambers? It likely wasn’t the scientists. Also, not all prisoners were killed in the gas chambers. Many were simply shot by the SS or were left to die of exposure. As for the Zyklon B used in the gas chambers, this article indicates that the SS were testing what had until that point been used as a pesticide. This article seems to indicate that the gas was used because the SS was worried about the effects of the shootings on their soldiers, and because it was readily available. Yes, scientists would have developed the pesticide, and may have been involved in the experimentation, but it does not appear to have been masterminded by scientists as you, Ben Stein, and many others seem to want to believe.

Come to think of it again, Hitler himself was a failed artist who became a politician. So why are we singling out the scientists?
 
buffalo said:
Physics sees the elegant beauty in Math and sees design. Quantum theory points to God. Biology ins’t quite there yet.
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I’ve seen about a dozen claims that quantum theory proves the existence of god. None of them were actually based on quantum theory. They were all based on the same misunderstanding of the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics (which is not quantum mechanics. The various interpretations are philosophical attempts to shoehorn the results of quantum mechanics into our classical mechanics based intuition. They are not the science of quantum mechanics)
 
Come to think of it again, Hitler himself was a failed artist who became a politician. So why are we singling out the scientists?
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Because Stein knows that the people to whom he is pandering don’t hate and fear artists.
 
All you have to do is learn the DEFINITION of science to understand that ID can not be part of a legitimate science curriculum.
yet…
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Right. For that, ID would have to do something that actually worked.
Pigs don’t fly.

yet… 😃
 
Barbarian on Stein’s lie:
What he said was that scientists were telling his relatives to go into the gas chambers.

It’s possible that he’s deranged and simply lives in some kind of dark Luddite fantasy, but other than that, it’s hard to escape the conclusion that he’s evil. That’s a lie of Nixonian proportions.

But then, his job was to write lies for Nixon. Hard to break old habits, I guess.
So there were no scientists involved?
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You think scientists were telling his family to go into the gas chambers? I don’t think so. But if you can show me otherwise, I’d be glad to look at your evidence. You do know that it’s a sin to accuse people without evidence, right?
Who figured out to move away from truck exhaust to the chemicals they used?
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Exterminators, apparently. Zyklon b was used as a pesticide. What makes you think that was a scientist? Why would they need a scientist?
There were no scientists at any of the camps?
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That’s quite a backpedal from what Stein said, um? By now, you know he was lying, don’t you? Why support someone like that?
 
The_Barbarian said:
Barbarian on Stein’s lie:
What he said was that scientists were telling his relatives to go into the gas chambers.

It’s possible that he’s deranged and simply lives in some kind of dark Luddite fantasy, but other than that, it’s hard to escape the conclusion that he’s evil. That’s a lie of Nixonian proportions.

But then, his job was to write lies for Nixon. Hard to break old habits, I guess.

You think scientists were telling his family to go into the gas chambers? I don’t think so. But if you can show me otherwise, I’d be glad to look at your evidence. You do know that it’s a sin to accuse people without evidence, right?

Exterminators, apparently. Zyklon b was used as a pesticide. What makes you think that was a scientist? Why would they need a scientist?

That’s quite a backpedal from what Stein said, um? By now, you know he was lying, don’t you? Why support someone like that?
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Mad Science And
Criminal Medicine

After WW2, in October of 1946, the *Nuremberg
*
*Gate to hell
*
*
*
*Medical Trial *began, lasting until August of 1947. Twenty-tree German physicians and scientists were accused of performing vile and potentially lethal medical experiments on concentration camps inmates and other living human subjects between 1933 and 1945. Josef Mengele was not amongst the accused.
 
Medical Trial began, lasting until August of 1947. Twenty-tree German physicians and scientists were accused of performing vile and potentially lethal medical experiments on concentration camps inmates and other living human subjects between 1933 and 1945. Josef Mengele was not amongst the accused.
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So less than 23 scientists out of thousands of scientists in Germany were involved? How many less? And which of them can you show were herding people into the gas chambers as Stein claimed?

And relatively speaking, how many police officers were involved in the death camps? How many carpenters or plumbers or soldiers or railroad workers?

Why didn’t Stein attack them? Because the people he panders to don’t hate policemen or carpenters or soldiers etc.
 
The_Barbarian said:
So less than 23 scientists out of thousands of scientists in Germany were involved? How many less? And which of them can you show were herding people into the gas chambers as Stein claimed?

And relatively speaking, how many police officers were involved in the death camps? How many carpenters or plumbers or soldiers or railroad workers?

Why didn’t Stein attack them? Because the people he panders to don’t hate policemen or carpenters or soldiers etc.
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I really don’t get your beef? Scientists can not be evil?
 
(Barbarian points out that Stein lied about scientists ordering his family into the gas chambers)
I really don’t get your beef?
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I think it is a despicable sin to falsely accuse people of such things. You should too. Do you?
Scientists can not be evil?
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Of course they can. Are you saying that’s license for Stein to lie? How so? Of the tens of thousands of scientists in Germany, twenty-three were implicated in war crimes. Smaller than any other group I can think of.

Is there any shame among IDers? Is any lie acceptable, so long as it “helps the cause?”
 
The_Barbarian said:
(Barbarian points out that Stein lied about scientists ordering his family into the gas chambers)

I think it is a despicable sin to falsely accuse people of such things. You should too. Do you?

Of course they can. Are you saying that’s license for Stein to lie? How so? Of the tens of thousands of scientists in Germany, twenty-three were implicated in war crimes. Smaller than any other group I can think of.

Is there any shame among IDers? Is any lie acceptable, so long as it “helps the cause?”
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Did he accuse a specific person in the film?

and no it is not acceptable to make a false accusation.
 
Did he accuse a specific person in the film?
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So, it’s OK, because he falsely accused an entire class of people? I don’t see how.
and no it is not acceptable to make a false accusation.
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In any circumstances. Even if he just falsely accused a group of people.
 
The_Barbarian said:
So, it’s OK, because he falsely accused an entire class of people? I don’t see how.

In any circumstances. Even if he just falsely accused a group of people.
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Let’s see - If I make a statement - scientists discover new element - that accuses all scientists?
 
Barbarian asks:
So, it’s OK, because he falsely accused an entire class of people? I don’t see how.

In any circumstances. Even if he just falsely accused a group of people.
Let’s see - If I make a statement - scientists discover new element - that accuses all scientists?
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Let’s put it back in context. If you say scientists forced people into the gas chambers then you are falsely accusing a group of people.

I’m puzzled as to why you are definding this kind of thing, or why you think it’s OK to falsely accuse a group so long as you don’t falsely accuse all of them.

Does it matter how many people Stein slandered when he lied?
 
The_Barbarian said:
Barbarian asks:
So, it’s OK, because he falsely accused an entire class of people? I don’t see how.

In any circumstances. Even if he just falsely accused a group of people.

Let’s put it back in context. If you say scientists forced people into the gas chambers then you are falsely accusing a group of people.

I’m puzzled as to why you are definding this kind of thing, or why you think it’s OK to falsely accuse a group so long as you don’t falsely accuse all of them.

Does it matter how many people Stein slandered when he lied?
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I quit - this isn’t worth it. Amazing…
 
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