Ben Stein: Science Leads to Killing People

[MaryJohnZ]

Here it is! Hitler did want to rewrite the bible because he knew he had to use the Christian religion as a foundation to build his new social order. But his order was not Christian in any sense.

Jewish references erased in newly found Nazi Bible
Last updated at 14:47 07 August 2006

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-399470/Jewish-references-erased-newly-Nazi-Bible.html

An institute in Germany has unearthed a Nazi bible ordered by Adolf Hitler to replace the old and new testaments expunged of all references to Jews.

Hitler’s race theorists even rewrote the 10 commandments and added two more for good measure in the book called ?German with God? which was ? alongside Hitler? s autobiography ? meant to be required reading in every home in his Third Reich.

Thou shalt not kill, coveting one’s neighbour’s wife, thou shalt not steal and all other others were scrapped by a regime that stole, murdered and plundered its way across the world.

Hitler admired the ceremony and majesty of the church ? he admitted as much in Mein Kampf ? but hated its teachings which had no place in his vision of Germanic supermen ruling lesser races devoid of ‘outdated’ concepts such as mercy and love.But he knew the power of the church in Germany and even he could not banish it overnight. He was even forced to abandon the systematic murder of the handicapped and insane before the war when outspoken bishops began to speak against it.

Instead his plan was to gradually ‘Nazify’ the church beginning with a theological centre he set up in 1939 to rewrite the Holy Bible. He appointed lackey professors to work on a thoroughly Nazi version that would remove all references to Jews and all compassion.

Their brief: ‘The cleanse church texts of all non-Ayran influences.’ The first to go were the 10 Commandments. The Nazi 12 run: “Honour God and believe in him wholeheartedly. Seek out the peace of God. Avoid all hypocrisy. Holy is your health and life! Holy is your wellbeing and honour! Holy is your truth and fidelity! Honour your father and mother ? your children are your aid and your example. Keep the blood pure and your honour holy! Maintain and multiply the heritage of your forefathers. Always be ready to help and to forgive. Honour your Fuehrer and master! Joyously serve the people with work and sacrifice. That is what God wants from us!” More important for Hitler, however, was the eradication of Jewish words, including Hallelulja, Jehova and even Jerusalem ? it was instead termed the ? the eternal city of God.? “The book will have to serve the fight against the immortal Jewish enemy!” said Hitler in a memorandum to the institute in Eisenach.

Hansjoerg Buss of the Nordelbischen Church Office discovered the Bible in an archive search.

It was printed in 1941 by a company in Weimar and was shipped out to thousands of churches across Nazi-occupied Europe. It is understood most have been destroyed.

The name of the office Hitler created to shape the Bible in his image was the ‘Institute for the research and removal of the Jewish influence on German church life.’ One of the major tasks was to ignore Jesus? Jewish roots and turn him into an Ayran. Other words specifically banned by Hitler?s race-haters were Zion, Hosanna, Galilee and Moses.

One order found in the archives for a special exhibition in Eisenach of the institute?s bizarre work came from Walter Grundmann, the anti-Semitic director appointed by Hitler.

He wrote in 1941: “The Bible must become Jew-free and the German people must see that the Jews are the mortal enemy who threaten their very existence.”

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So do you see that saying the German racial policies flowed from Christianity is not true, they had to twist Christianity to fit their nationalist view. The state was really thier god.

In Christ, MaryJohnz

 

[MaryJohnZ]

Hitler anti-Christian quotes.

13th December, 1941, midnight:

“Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery… … When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let’s be the only people who are immunised against the disease.” (p 118 & 119)
Adolf Hitler
Night of 11th-12th July, 1941

"National Socialism and religion cannot exist together…
"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity’s illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity…
“Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things.” (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday

“**Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure.” **(p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday

"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death… When understanding of the universe has become widespread… Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity…
“Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity… And that’s why someday its structure will collapse…
**”…the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little…
"Christianity the liar…
“We’ll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State.” **(p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night

"The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."
21st October, 1941, midday

"Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer…
"The decisive falsification of Jesus’ doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work… for the purposes of personal exploitation…
“Didn’t the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it’s in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea.” (p 63-65)

homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html_______________________________________

Hitler wanted to rewrite the bible to get rid of the idea that jesus wa a Jew. he also wanted to remove the commandments against killing.

Notice how he raises the issue of the ‘natural law’ again in these quotes and says Christianity opposes the natural law.

What do you think he means by that? Couldn’t have anything to do with Social Darwinism at all?

In Christ, maryJohnZ

 

[The_Barbarian]

Hitler wanted to rewrite the bible to get rid of the idea that jesus wa a Jew. he also wanted to remove the commandments against killing.

Obviously, he had a very warped idea of Christianity. Note that even here, he differs with Darwin, but agrees with Luther.

What do you think he means by that?

That he regards Luther as a true Christian, one who hates Jews.

Couldn’t have anything to do with Social Darwinism at all?

Don’t know anything, even in “Social Darwinism” that is like that. If “social Darwinists” hated Jews, I don’t know any examples.

That kind of thing came from Luther, as you know.

Why do you think Jews are angry at Ben Stein? It’s because he’s denying this, and making excuses for the Nazis.

 

[Kaninchen]

I guess you haven’t read all the posts. I already said martin Luther and anti-semitism were part of the equation and provided fuel for the fire, but the ultimate goal was based on the concept that it was the social responsibility of the state to preserve the pure blood line of the Ayrian race. “Survival of the fittest” applies to this concept. That they saw the Jewish people as the lowest denominator on their hierarchy of races did not come from Martin Luther but it was supported by Luther’s writings, and the antisemitism that was already prevalent.You are taking one element of the mix and in denial of the whole other element, the eugenics movement and social Darwinism.

Actually, you’ve been spamming the thread and pretending that it’s some kind of analysis.

That the creationist movement would eventually attempt to bend all sorts of areas of study to its strange obsessions was, I suppose, inevitable.

 

[MaryJohnZ]

Actually, you’ve been spamming the thread and pretending that it’s some kind of analysis.

That the creationist movement would eventually attempt to bend all sorts of areas of study to its strange obsessions was, I suppose, inevitable.

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Spamming the thread? You have got to be kidding. I have been looking into the different sources as I was led to them It was an interesting search for me. I am not part of the creationist movement.

If there was even a little bit of effort to be seriour about about supporting claims on the Darwin side with actual historic proof that he was set against eugenics it might feel like there was
sincere concern over the issue. My concern is not to bouy up any particular theory or group but to just know what led to such a terrible event so it does not happen again.

So far I have learned that Darwin in his book the “Descent of Man” departed from his more scientific writing in the “Origin of Species” and allowed his own prejudices to show through. Not only that his writing became a ground on which people who wanted to make an argument that human life came about without any action by God could build an atheistic view of science and human beings. The result seems to be that his ideas were fit into the eugenic programs of the turn of the century.

Of course the fact that the war took the life out of the german people and forced them into a terrible state of poverty and humiliation added to the mix. Hitler came along with ideas that appealed to them because he built on their need to have a sense of national pride. The Germans had become secularized and there actally was a lot of abortions going on in the pre-war period, which Hilter saw as the killing of healthy German babies. So he spoke strongly against abortion in that sense.

His ideas were from Darwin though. That seems unequivacally clear. The fact that he capitalizes Nature in Mein Kampf is not
a ‘trick’ of the translator as Barbarian implied. I asked someone who studied German and they told me they do not capiralize all their nouns…so add one piece of misrepresentation on Barbarian’s side.

The writings from the German war documents, testimonies of scientist and historians all lead to the same conclusion, that Hitler was a man on a mission and his inspiration was the eugenic’s movement tied to social Darwinism. Hitler wrote fan letters to the eugenics movement here in America. The scientists over here that were involved in the eugenics movement encouraged the German programs.

I am sorry that you and Barbarian have a hard time facing historical fact.

In Christ, MaryJohnZ

 

[Kaninchen]

I am sorry that you and Barbarian have a hard time facing historical fact.

In Christ, MaryJohnZ

Actually, I’m not interested in what you think of Darwin, I’m making observations about the absurd over-simplification of German history, the NSDAP and the Reich.

 

[The_Barbarian]

If there was even a little bit of effort to be seriour about about supporting claims on the Darwin side with actual historic proof that he was set against eugenics it might feel like there was
sincere concern over the issue.

His statement saying such ideas were “evil” seems like a pretty clear signal t me.

My concern is not to bouy up any particular theory or group but to just know what led to such a terrible event so it does not happen again.

And making excuses for the Nazis is one way to make it happen again.

So far I have learned that Darwin in his book the “Descent of Man” departed from his more scientific writing in the “Origin of Species” and allowed his own prejudices to show through.

His “prejudice” that all humans deserve life and freedom is, I think, a good one.

The fact that he capitalizes Nature in Mein Kampf is not
a ‘trick’ of the translator as Barbarian implied. I asked someone who studied German and they told me they do not capiralize all their nouns…so add one piece of misrepresentation on Barbarian’s side.

**German is the only language in the world that requires the capitalization of ALL nouns. **
german.about.com/library/weekly/aa020919a.htm

and:

Recognizing the nouns contained in a written German statement is easy. All German nouns are capitalized. German spelling rules require that the first word of a statement be capitalized simply because it is the first word; otherwise, every German noun (and no other type of word) is capitalized regardless of its position in the statement.
cc.ysu.edu/~rchewitt/b01r.htm#Identifying%20Nouns

My university required a reading knowledge of German for all chemistry students. Someone took advantage of your trust, Mary.

Fact is, as you know, Darwin denounced eugenic ideas, and Darwinians later showed that the entire premise was scientifically invalid. Ben Stein’s libel was to accuse the very people who opposed the Holocaust of causing it. This is why so many of his fellow Jews denounced him. His denial of the real causes of the Holocaust makes excuses for the Nazis.

I am sorry that you and Barbarian have a hard time facing historical fact.

It is increasingly clear Mary, that you simply set your beliefs by what you want to be true.

 

[MaryJohnZ]

It is increasingly clear Mary, that you simply set your beliefs by what you want to be true.

I think you are speaking for yourself. You have disregarded every historical document posted here and cling to two pieces of evidence because they give the story you want.

That is why contiuning this discussion has become impossible. You simply don’t really care about evidence and truth.

Unfortunately that is how history is able to repeat itself.

In Christ,
maryJohnZ

 

[MaryJohnZ]

Actually, I’m not interested in what you think of Darwin, I’m making observations about the absurd over-simplification of German history, the NSDAP and the Reich.

If you think I have oversimplified things then offer a substantiak criticism with something to back it up. The short comments that just are meant to insult add nothing at all to the substance of the conversation.

it seems to me the oversimplification is on Barbarian’s part at any rate.

In Chrsit, maryJohnZ

 

[MaryJohnZ]

If the impression is given that religious people were the base support for the eugenics movement or for the Nazi regime then that is a gross over-simplification and largely false… Turns out that conservative Christians were the ones fighting against the eugenic sterilization programs in the states when they were being enacted… .

But many of the same charges were leveled against the catholics and conservative Christians that fought eugenics in that time period,and they were called “anti-scince” people, just as Christians are charged today when they argue against some science research such as research using embryonic stem cells.

That is why Hitler saw Christians (Catholics and conservative Protestants) as the enemy of his programs. That is why some scientists are upset by ben Stein’s movie as well because it leads people to think about the ethical side of science and whether science can go too far.

“During the height of the eugenics movement, similar charges were leveled at opponents. It was Catholics and conservative Protestants, often at the local level, who fought state legislative initiatives for compulsory eugenic sterilization and opposed eugenic restrictions on marriage licenses and immigration law. In New Orleans, Catholics formed a coalition with fundamentalist Protestants to thwart legislators’ attempts to pass a compulsory-sterilization law. Catholics and conservative Protestants, ridiculed as backward and anti-scientific in their own day, seem prescient in ours.”

I think the constant charges that I am 'one of those non-science religious people may actually be a compliment considering the facts. There is a list of some of the prominent scientists and institutions they represented who were involved in the eugenics movement in the article.

nationalreview.com/comment/rosen200503030739.asp

In Christ,
maryJohnZ

 

[Kaninchen]

If you think I have oversimplified things then offer a substantiak criticism with something to back it up.

That would require a different thread and starting from the very beginning.

The short comments that just are meant to insult add nothing at all to the substance of the conversation.

Spamming isn’t ‘conversation’.

 

[MaryJohnZ]

That would require a different thread and starting from the very beginning.

Spamming isn’t ‘conversation’.

There is plenty of time on this forum for others to respond if they wish. I don’t think posting several things in a row with pertinent factual information is the same as spamming. Spamming is taking control of everything, which I have not sought to do. I think others have left the site because they find Barbarians posting techniques hard to deal with. I know I do. That is why I requested
that he post using paragraphs.

In Christ, MaryJohnz

 

[The_Barbarian]

If the impression is given that religious people were the base support for the eugenics movement or for the Nazi regime
then that is a gross over-simplification and largely false…

Luther’s advocacy of the elements of the Wannsee Protocol settles that. And as you see, Hitler admired Luther and followed his advice.

Turns out that conservative Christians were the ones fighting against the eugenic sterilization programs in the states when they were being enacted… .

So why were they apologizing for their role in eugenics? And why did they blame Darwinians, who opposed eugenics?

That is why Hitler saw Christians (Catholics and conservative Protestants) as the enemy of his programs.

He claimed to be a Christian. Clearly, he thought that the God of Christianity was on his side.

That is why some scientists are upset by ben Stein’s movie as well

We know why. Here’s what Stein’s own people say about that:

**"The film Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed misappropriates the Holocaust and its imagery as a part of its political effort to discredit the scientific community which rejects so-called intelligent design theory.

Hitler did not need Darwin to devise his heinous plan to exterminate the Jewish people and Darwin and evolutionary theory cannot explain Hitler’s genocidal madness.

Using the Holocaust in order to tarnish those who promote the theory of evolution is outrageous and trivializes the complex factors that led to the mass extermination of European Jewry."**

Anti-Defamation League

Stein blamed the very people who opposed the Holocaust, and made excuses for the people who did it. Why wouldn’t everyone be angry with him? Why would you support him in his blood libel against Darwin?

The truth matters, Mary. It should matter to you. Like that person “who studies German” who lied to you about German nouns being capitalized, Stein and his ilk lied to you about Darwin. And they are making excuses for Hitler. You’re on the wrong side, on this one Mary. Let it go.

 

[MaryJohnZ]

Luther’s advocacy of the elements of the Wannsee Protocol settles that. And as you see, Hitler admired Luther and followed his advice.

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Not true. The historic record shows Hitler merely used the writings of Luther to build upon for propaganda purposes. As I showed in earlier posts as soon as he got into power any pretense at Christianity went out the window. He shut down religious scholls, removed crosses and replaced them with Nazi symbols, the marching songs of the Hitler youth sai “we do not follow Chrsit…”, he had a systematic plan for destroying the Christian churches, he had a group that was asssigned the task of rewriting the whole bible…all things Martin Luther and any Christian would have disagreed with. _______________________________________________

So why were they apologizing for their role in eugenics? And why did they blame Darwinians, who opposed eugenics?

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Because just as we have 'prochoice Catholics" there were elements of secularized Christians who were not connected to true teachings of the church and had ill formed consciences that allowed them to be persuaded down that path. remeber the article sai “conservative Christians and Catholics”, not secularized ones.
That is where you over simplify.

In Germany, too, there were secularized Christians who had let go of the teachings of the faith and were not following it. Same as today…prochoice Catholics are not really acting as Catholics.

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He claimed to be a Christian. Clearly, he thought that the God of Christianity was on his side.

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Anything but…the symbolic nature of the Nazi’s was tied to the occult, not Christianity. You saw the earlier posts, Hitler wanted to destroy the Christian church.

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We know why. Here’s what Stein’s own people say about that:

**“The film Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed misappropriates the Holocaust and its imagery as a part of its political effort to discredit the scientific community which rejects so-called intelligent design theory.”…

Stein blamed the very people who opposed the Holocaust, and made excuses for the people who did it. Why wouldn’t everyone be angry with him? Why would you support him in his blood libel against Darwin?

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I believe the anti-defamation league is wrong in its analysis of what caused the Holocaust. it could be that they don’t want to appear out of step with modern science, I don’t know. But the Jewish faith has been secularized as well. In Israel they have a 50% abortion rate. Hitler probably would have been pleased with that.

"The Dilution of Jewish Heritage.

I cannot but agree with your evaluation of the situation in Israel as elsewhere as the result of the worldwide spread of atheism or as I prefer to call it people brainwashed into being unbelievers in the sanctity of life and the rule of G-d over the World. In Israel, it is a particularly sad situation as a combination of Communism and non-religious Zionism have created an educational system totally alien to spiritual values and therefore have caused a generation to be raised in a destructive atmosphere.

      Sephardic Chief Rabbi Israel Ovadya Yosef.[3]"

Just as Christians have done, Jews are being “absorbed” into American culture. More young Jews are waiting longer to get married, then tend to marry out of the faith and have one, two, or no children. Jews currently have less children as a group than any other religious or ethnic group, and have more people of marriageable age remaining single than any other group.[4]
…
"And Jews have one of the highest abortion rates of any group of people in the United States, a fact plaintively echoed by one Jewish couple upon learning that their first grandchild had been aborted; “Jews are being screwed out of existence. Who uses birth control? Who gets all these abortions? We’re being physically wiped out!”[6]

ewtn.com/library/PROLENC/ENCYC044.HTM**

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]

 

[MaryJohnZ]

The truth does matter to me. I looked up German langiage page and saw that German nouns are all capitalized in the German language, but that would not mean they would be written that way when translated into English… But that doesn’t matter as much as the words and context of the writting when corraborated with all the other writings show that Hitler saw the laws of natue as the most important laws and the state was to enable the laws of nature , hybrids were seen as weknesses, the desire was the pure race…".
wise.virginia.edu/history/wciv2/kampf.html

"Even a superficial glance is sufficient to show that all the innumerable forms in which the life-urge of Nature manifests itself are subject to a fundamental law – one may call it an iron law of Nature – which compels the various species to keep within the definite limits of their own life-forms when propagating and multiplying their kind. Each animal mates only with one of its own species. The titmouse cohabits only with the titmouse, the finch with the finch, the stork with the stork, the field-mouse with the field-mouse, the house-mouse with the house-mouse, the wolf with the she-wolf, etc.
Deviations from this law take place only in exceptional circumstances. … But then Nature abhors such intercourse with all her might; and her protest is most clearly demonstrated by the fact that the hybrid is either sterile or the fecundity of its descendants is limited. In most cases hybrids and their progeny are denied the ordinary powers of resistance to disease or the natural means of defence against outer attack. "
Mein Kampf
CHAPTER XI
RACE AND PEOPLE

Mein Kampf

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Another factor which you have overlooked in your simplification of the events leading up to the Nazi regime is that there were several important philosophical influences whose writings declared the death of Christian belief. Tis of course was part of the secularization of Germany and Europe at that time.
hearnow.org/ulh.html
"A generation before Hitler, another German, the philosopher Frederick Nietzsche, proclaimed the death of God “God is dead! God remains dead! And we have killed him!” Nietzsche wrote. “Is not the magnitude of this deed too great for us? Shall we not ourselves have to become Gods, merely to seem worthy of it? There never was a greater event - and on account of it, all who are born after us belong to a higher history than any history hitherto.”

The grain of truth in Nietzsche’s madness is that Christendom, i.e. Christian civilization is dead. He saw the churches as the tombs and monuments of God. (1).

The same message of the extinction of Christendom was proclaimed at the same time from the point of view of God by Soren Kierkegaard in Denmark."

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Secularization of Society and religios groups
New scientific theories that explained creation in totally materialistic terms
the need for a hurting nation, defeated in WWI, hurting from poverty, to find some form of nationalistic pride
concepts of racial purity tied to civilization and the superior human

Add those things up and out go old morals and unfortunately prejudices may be acted upon in new unbridled ways…

hence the holocaust, not simple and certainly not just Martin Luther…

In Christ,
MaryJohnZ/COLOR

 

[The_Barbarian]

Barbarian obseves:
Luther’s advocacy of the elements of the Wannsee Protocol settles that. And as you see, Hitler admired Luther and followed his advice.

Not true.

Well, let’s take a look…

To them belong, not only the truly great statesmen, but all other great reformers as well. Beside Frederick the Great stands Martin Luther as well as Richard Wagner.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

As you know, Luther advised that Jews should:
Be stripped of any rights
Have their wealth confiscated
Be forced into work camps
Have their places of worship destroyed
Be expelled from the country

Hitler, as you know, followed this advice closely.

The historic record shows Hitler merely used the writings of Luther to build upon for propaganda purposes.

See above. Nice try.

Barbarian on churches who accepted eugenics:
So why were they apologizing for their role in eugenics? And why did they blame Darwinians, who opposed eugenics?

Because just as we have 'prochoice Catholics" there were elements of secularized Christians who were not connected to true teachings of the church…

Oh, so they weren’t **real **Christians…

He claimed to be a Christian. Clearly, he thought that the God of Christianity was on his side.

Anything but…

Let’s take another look…

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter."
Hitler in a speech 1922

Barbarian observes:
We know why. Here’s what Stein’s own people say about that:

**" The film Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed misappropriates the Holocaust and its imagery as a part of its political effort to discredit the scientific community which rejects so-called intelligent design theory.

Hitler did not need Darwin to devise his heinous plan to exterminate the Jewish people and Darwin and evolutionary theory cannot explain Hitler’s genocidal madness.

Using the Holocaust in order to tarnish those who promote the theory of evolution is outrageous and trivializes the complex factors that led to the mass extermination of European Jewry."**

Anti-Dafamation League

Stein blamed the very people who opposed the Holocaust, and made excuses for the people who did it. Why wouldn’t everyone be angry with him? Why would you support him in his blood libel against Darwin?

I believe the anti-defamation league is wrong in its analysis of what caused the Holocaust.

What do Jews know about the Holocaust, after all…

it could be that they don’t want to appear out of step with modern science, I don’t know.

Could Jews be outraged because Stein is making excuses for the Nazis and trivializing the Holocaust? Could it be that Holocaust denial is offensive to them?

Stein’s own people are angry at him for his lies. Why would you defend someone like that? The truth should matter to you, Mary.

 

[The_Barbarian]

The truth does matter to me. I looked up German langiage page and saw that German nouns are all capitalized in the German language,

So your source lied to you, um? Isn’t it time you stopped trusting people like that?

but that would not mean they would be written that way when translated into English…

Right. When you translate them, you don’t capitalize. But your guy capitalized “Nature” because he wanted to be deceptive as to the meaning. It worked at least once, didn’t it?

 

[MaryJohnZ]

Right. When you translate them, you don’t capitalize. But your guy capitalized “Nature” because he wanted to be deceptive as to the meaning. It worked at least once, didn’t it?

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No, my source did not lie to me. it was just that he had taken German a long time ago and had forgettenor didn’ know that. At any rate you are SOOOOOO quick to judge others and say they lie when it is SOOOOOOO hard for you to really look at what Hitler did and said and see that he was anti Christian. You say he thought of Luther as a hero and yet all historical evidence says he merely used Luther for propaganda and tha his ultimate goal was the establishment of a nationalist church, even going to the extent of re-writing the bible, changing the 10 commandments, removing the commandment against killing others, and replacing religious imagery with Nazi imagery. The songs, slogan, practices of the Nazis were ant-religious. They were atheistic, agnostic or more occult in nature. Pagan is the word.

As for the eugenics movement in tis country, it gained ground because of seculaization in religious groups. The hard core religious believers, Catholics and conservative Protestants never accepted it, as shown by previous post. Just as today conservative Catholics and Protestants remain steadfast in defending life. It is secularized, ‘pagan’ religion that goes in the direction of worshipping nature over God.

The eugenics movment lives on in this country in liberal, progressive pro-abortion policies. The evidence is in their own words;

****Roe v Wade Lawyer: Use Abortion “to eliminate the barely educated, unhealthy and poor”

by Hilary White

"WASHINGTON, May 15, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) – The legal watchdog group Judicial Watch has released four-page letter written in January 1993 by Ron Weddington to then president-elect Bill Clinton asking him to use abortion as a tool for “eliminating” the “barely educated, unhealthy, and poor.”**

Using terms reminiscent of early 20th century eugenicists, Weddington’s letter has revealed the stark anti-human principles that have always supported the US abortion movement. One quote directly echoes the utilitarian polemicists who called for the elimination of “useless eaters” from pre-war German society. Weddington tells Clinton that the “survival” of US society “depends upon our developing a population where everyone contributes.”

The letter was published as part of a larger report by the public interest group titled, “The Clinton RU-486 Files,” showing that the drug was rushed to approval for political reasons by the Clinton administration. The letter was stored in the Clinton Presidential Library in Little Rock, Arkansas.

Weddington, who along with his wife fought the Roe v Wade case on behalf of the then nascent US abortion lobby, calls on Clinton to expand the abortion philosophy by public propaganda campaigns to “convince” the poor that they should not reproduce"

lifesitenews.com/ldn/2006/may/06051504.html

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Sounds like Hitler’s arguments for cleansing the population of the unfit. Hitler. believed it was a crime against society for it to be burdened with caring for the weak because it led to a halt in the development of society. He was more Spartan than Christian.

Darwin mentioned that doing this would be letting go of what was most noble in man but left it open enough so that an argument that a greater good would come from such actions prevailed. DARWIN KNEW THESE IDEAS OF EUGENICS WERE BEING TALKED ABOUT AND YET HE NEVER WROTE A LENGTHY ARGUMENT AGINST THEM! You only show one sentence, one small sentence and claim that Darwin argued against eugenics. It is not enough Barbarian. Not enough to prove your point against all the other historical documentation out there… Especially the fact that his writings showed such great prejudice against the poor and weak and different racial groups. That prejudice and the suggestion of a greater good in
manipulating natural selection brought about both positive and negative eugenics…

And that is why, even during the Clinton Presidence we still are hearing the same old arguments from the eugenics crowd represented by Planned Parenthood and the abortion industry.
Eugenics never died. Darwin never presented a clear defining argument against it.

Ben Stein was right in saying that darwin led this charge.

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In Christ, maryJohnZ**

 

[MaryJohnZ]

Is there a similarity between the language of the Nazi doctors and the language of abortionists today:

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abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_37.asp#Can%20You%20draw%20a%20parallel%20between%20today’s%20abortionists%20and%20the%20Nazi%20doctors?

NAZI DOCTORS
“A doctor may interrupt a pregnancy when it ‘threatens the life or health of the mother [and] an unborn child that is likely to present hereditary and transmissible defects may be destroyed.’” (German Penal Code and Hamburg Eugenics Court, 1933)
TODAY’S ABORIONISTS:
“A licensed physician is justified in terminating a pregnancy if he believes that pregnancy would gravely impair the physical or mental health of the mother or that the child would be born with grave physical or mental defects.” (American Law Institute Model Penal Code, 1962)
NAZI DEFINITION OF A CITIZEN::
“Only persons of ‘German or related blood’ can be citizens; this does not include Jews.” (Reich Citizenship Law, 1935)
“Only persons of ‘German or related blood’ can be citizens; this does not include Jews.” (Reich Citizenship Law, 1935)

DEFINITION OF A CITIZEN TODAY IN AMERICA:
“The word ‘person’ as used in the fourteenth Amendment, does not include the unborn.” ( U.S. Supreme Court, Roe vs. Wade, 1973)

NAZI GERMANY:
"The authority of physicians is enlarged to include the responsibility for according a ‘mercy death [to] incurables.’ " (Hitler’s Euthanasia Order, Sept. 1939)
AMERICA TODAY:
“The abortion decision in all its aspects is inherently and primarily a medical decision and basic responsibility for it must rest with the physician.” (U.S. Supreme Court, Roe vs. Wade, 1973)
Obedience to Authority
NAZI GERMANY:
“The accused did not act wrongly because they were covered by law [and] were carrying out the laws of the land.” (Hadamar Euthanasia Hospital Trial, 1945)
ABORTION DOCTORS TODAY:
“I did nothing which was illegal, immoral or bad medicine. Everything I did was in accordance with law.” (Dr. Kenneth C. Edelin, 1975)
NAZI GERMANY:
“The physician is merely an instrument as in the case of an officer who receives an order.” (Dr. Karl Brandt, Doctors’ Trial, 1947)
TODAY:
“The physician is only the instrument of her decision.” (Dr. Bernard N. Nathanson, 1974

In Christ, MaryJohnZ

 

[The_Barbarian]

No, my source did not lie to me. it was just that he had taken German a long time ago and had forgettenor didn’ know that.

It’s one of the very first things you learn, studying German. No one who actually knew anything about the language would not know that nouns are always capitalized.

At any rate you are SOOOOOO quick to judge others and say they lie

Either this one lied to you about studying German, or lied to you about nouns in German.

when it is SOOOOOOO hard for you to really look at what Hitler did and said and see that he was anti Christian.

Of course he was anti-Christian. He just thought he was pro-Christian. Just as Luther thought God wanted him to attack Jews, so did Hitler, largely on Luther’s advice.

You say he thought of Luther as a hero

So he said. And he gets to decide.

As for the eugenics movement in tis country, it gained ground because of seculaization in religious groups. The hard core religious believers, Catholics and conservative Protestants never accepted it, as shown by previous post.

Perhaps they paid more attention to the fact that scientists opposed it. After all, as you learned, Darwin denounced eugenic ideas, and Darwinists showed that eugenics was scientifically indefensible.

Sounds like Hitler’s arguments for cleansing the population of the unfit.

Maybe so. Your churches that did promote eugenics should have listened to Darwin and his followers. Then they would have known it was both evil and futile to support classic eugenics.

Hitler. believed it was a crime against society for it to be burdened with caring for the weak because it led to a halt in the development of society. He was more Spartan than Christian.

And Darwin said it would be evil to cull out the weak. He was more Christian than Spartan. Hitler followed the advice of Luther:

**Walter Buch, the head of the Nazi Party court, admitted Luther’s influence on Nazi Germany:
“When Luther turned his attention to the Jews, after he completed his translation of the Bible, he left behind “on the Jews and their Lies” for posterity.”

“Many people confess their amazement that Hitler preaches ideas which they have always held… From the Middle Ages we can look to the same example in Martin Luther. What stirred in the soul and spirit of the German people of that time, finally found expression in his person, in his words and deeds.”
-“Geist und Kampf” (speech), Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf
-cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall’s The Holy Reich**

Darwin followed the advice of Christ:
Matthew 25:40 And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

Darwin mentioned that doing this would be letting go of what was most noble in man but left it open enough so that an argument that a greater good would come from such actions prevailed.

C’mon, Mary. We all read it here. That’s the exact opposite of what Darwin wrote:

The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil.

DARWIN KNEW THESE IDEAS OF EUGENICS WERE BEING TALKED ABOUT AND YET HE NEVER WROTE A LENGTHY ARGUMENT AGINST THEM!

He dismissed them as “evil.” That settled it as far as decent people were concerned. It should settle it for you.

You only show one sentence, one small sentence and claim that Darwin argued against eugenics. It is not enough Barbarian.

It is enough, even for you, who clearly and desperately want to support Stein’s libel against Darwin. It is the definitive statement by Darwin. Likewise, you have repeatedly refused to accept that the Nazis, by their own admission, followed Luther’s advice, not Darwin’s.

Isn’t it time to come clean and admit the truth?

Ben Stein was right in saying that darwin led this charge.

As you know, Stein lied. And that is why he is considered evil by decent people. It’s why his own people denounced him for his denial of the causes of the Holocaust.

Darwin labeled any attempt to let the weak perish as “evil.” The Nazis ignored Darwin’s judgment and followed Luther’s instead.

The truth, Mary. If you are a Christian, you should not fear the truth.