Ben Stein: Science Leads to Killing People

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The trouble here is that you think the Middle Ages were the “dark ages” because of a confrontation of church with science
No. It was because it was an age of violence, ignorance, and corruption that even worked its way into the Church. It was an age when armies leaving for crusades would kick off the trip by having a slaughter of Jews.

It was a time when the usual punishment for perceived heresy was to be burned alive. And that is far more horrible than it sounds.
and yet you overlook the wisdom that did abound in that time period and which was lost during the enlightenment: a wisdom which saw God as the organizing force of the Universe.
You think the Founders of the United States didn’t know God? And yet they considered themselves part of the Enlightenment.
I think time will show that we have lived through a ‘dark age’ during the 20th century and that someof the wisdom that was so present in the Middle Ages, which we are now blind to, will again light the world.
I don’t think murdering Jews or burning people alive would count as “wisdom.” It seems that the evil you dwell on was prevalent in the dark ages, also. Indeed, as you learned, the inspiration for the Holocaust came from those times, in the writing of Martin Luther. But he didn’t invent it; he merely tried to do it in God’s name.
I believe we have sunk to new levels of ‘garbage’ in the way the human person is viewed in the past century and in some scienrtific circles today.
There certainly have been people as bloody and vengeful as any in medieval Europe. But as you learned, they were the ones who rejected science.
That is truly blasphemous.
Not blasphemous, merely foolish and self-destructive. This is why Ben Stein is so widely regarded as an evil fool.
 
The so called Dark Ages produced many of the greatest saints that the world has ever known.
And some of the most terrifying evil. Pretty much like ours.
Indeed, that is correct – and Darwinian theory is much to blame for the way the human person is devalued.
Who would have guessed that Martin Luther was a Darwinian? Unlike Reggie, Darwin argued that it would be an “overwhelming evil” to even let the least of humans die without aid.

This for some reason enrages Reggie. I wish I knew why.
 
No. It was because it was an age of violence, ignorance, and corruption that even worked its way into the Church. It was an age when armies leaving for crusades would kick off the trip by having a slaughter of Jews.

I quote from an article debunking the normal “eblightenment” propaganda concerning the crusades, which were under taken in a self defense mode, not out of prejudice or greed as often proposed:thearma.org/essays/Crusades.htm

"The Crusades were wars, so it would be a mistake to characterize them as nothing but piety and good intentions. Like all warfare, the violence was brutal (although not as brutal as modern wars). There were mishaps, blunders, and crimes. These are usually well-remembered today. During the early days of the First Crusade in 1095, a ragtag band of Crusaders led by Count Emicho of Leiningen made its way down the Rhine, robbing and murdering all the Jews they could find. Without success, the local bishops attempted to stop the carnage. In the eyes of these warriors, the Jews, like the Muslims, were the enemies of Christ. Plundering and killing them, then, was no vice. Indeed, they believed it was a righteous deed, since the Jews’ money could be used to fund the Crusade to Jerusalem. But they were wrong, and the Church strongly condemned the anti-Jewish attacks.

Fifty years later, when the Second Crusade was gearing up, St. Bernard frequently preached that the Jews were not to be persecuted:

Ask anyone who knows the Sacred Scriptures what he finds foretold of the Jews in the Psalm. “Not for their destruction do I pray,” it says. The Jews are for us the living words of Scripture, for they remind us always of what our Lord suffered… Under Christian princes they endure a hard captivity, but “they only wait for the time of their deliverance.”

Nevertheless, a fellow Cistercian monk named Radulf stirred up people against the Rhineland Jews, despite numerous letters from Bernard demanding that he stop. At last Bernard was forced to travel to Germany himself, where he caught up with Radulf, sent him back to his convent, and ended the massacres."

Barbarian:
It was a time when the usual punishment for perceived heresy was to be burned alive. And that is far more horrible than it sounds.

Witches were brned alive at times because they used abortion of babies as part of their witchcraft and the evil of abortion was what brought about that terrible sentence. Even today a woman who says she is a “Wiccan” and runs an abortion clinic down in Florida has stated publically that abortion is ‘their sacrament’’

"We use the word “neopagan” freely these days. But there are murderous polytheists among us, and there should be more, according to a slim and frightening book by Ginette Paris of Canada, L’Enfant, l’Amour, la Mort (1990), translated into English as The Sacrament of Abortion. (Ms. Paris’s other works include such titles as Pagan Meditations and Pagan Grace.) Paris invokes the goddess Artemis, archer, huntress, and twin sister of Apollo. While Artemis’s birth to Leto was painless, that of Apollo took nine long days, during which Artemis nursed the laboring mother and observed how painful childbirth is. Artemis vowed to remain a virgin, and she became the guardian of women who are becoming mothers. How does Paris make her the deity of abortion? " more can be read at:
Ritualizing Abortion
soli.inav.net/~jfischer/mar99/waborst.html

This is not to condone an act of burning anyone alive, because i don’t condone that but it does explain why those drastic actions were taken. I am sure they were taken wronmgly at times. But let’s not judge other time periods and stick to cleaning up our own.​

Barbarian:
You think the Founders of the United States didn’t know God? And yet they considered themselves part of the Enlightenment.​

mary:
The 'Enlightenment" was a beam in the eye of faith for many people and even whole nations. The link of some founding fathers to the Enlightenment is not a positive one. (Jefferson removed all the miracle stories from his version of the bible)

There certainly have been people as bloody and vengeful as any in medieval Europe. But as you learned, they were the ones who rejected science.

Mary:
Rejecting faith? And what do you call it when scientists reject the possibility of a 'soul" at conception? isn’t that a rejection of faith/ Look where it has gotten us. 48 million abortions…some of those babies chemically burned alive in their Mother’s womb…

Barbarian:
Not blasphemous, merely foolish and self-destructive. This is why Ben Stein is so widely regarded as an evil fool.

Mary
Ben Stein is regarded as a liar by you and others who are unwilling to look truth in the eye.

IN Christ MaryJohnZ
 
Ben Stein is regarded as a liar by you and others who are unwilling to look truth in the eye.
Ben Stein is regarded as a liar by his own people, who are angered over the excuses he made for Hitler in the Holocaust.

As you know, he lied about scientists sending his family to the gas chambers, and he lied about the source of inspiration for the Holocaust, a blood libel that earned him the condemnation of the Anti-Defamation League.

The Dark Ages are called Dark for a good reason.
 
Ben Stein is regarded as a liar by his own people, who are angered over the excuses he made for Hitler in the Holocaust.

As you know, he lied about scientists sending his family to the gas chambers, and he lied about the source of inspiration for the Holocaust, a blood libel that earned him the condemnation of the Anti-Defamation League.

The Dark Ages are called Dark for a good reason.
The Dark Ages are called 'dark; because the Renaissaince historians wanted to create prejudice against the Gothic period.
Anytime period or movement that calls itself “enlightened” should immediately raise a red flag at any rate because the spirit of pride and prejudice would be involved in such a label. It automatically says in some way those people are ‘superior’ and ‘know more’…well, a lot of scientists who should know more and should have some kind of sense of caution and care are willing to go along with experiments that are clearly unethical these days.

as to your other statement,I don’t know why the Anti-Defamation league lacks the ability to see through political correctness, but it does…

IN Christ, MJZ
 
The Dark Ages are called 'dark; because the Renaissaince historians wanted to create prejudice against the Gothic period.
That is right.

Given the history of mass murder, genocide, disease, famine, epidemics, pollution, terrorism, warfare, persecution of religion seen in the 20th century – and continuing through this century, the term “The Dark Ages” would be more fitting for our current era.

But the materialist-Darwinian-science culture would never accept that. No matter how much death and human misery is spread across the globe, as long as “science is making progress” that means we’re in an “enlightened era”.
 
The Dark Ages are called 'dark; because the Renaissaince historians wanted to create prejudice against the Gothic period.
And here I thought it was because of the violence, disease, ignorance, and corruption. Silly me. BTW, the “Gothic Period” was not medieval, but late Classical.
Anytime period or movement that calls itself “enlightened” should immediately raise a red flag at any rate because the spirit of pride and prejudice would be involved in such a label.
Ah, so you’re arguing that Medieval people were enlightened, um?

BTW, you seem to have conflated the Renaissance with the Enlightenment.
as to your other statement,I don’t know why the Anti-Defamation league lacks the ability to see through political correctness, but it does…
You mean it knows political correctness when it sees it. That’s why they took Stein to task for his lies. Politically correct, they might be. Dishonest, they will remain.

You’re really surprised that Jewish people might take offense at Stein making excuses for the Holocaust? Really?
 
Given the history of mass murder, genocide, disease, famine, epidemics, pollution, terrorism, warfare, persecution of religion seen in the 20th century – and continuing through this century, the term “The Dark Ages” would be more fitting for our current era.
At times, it has been rather medieval, hasn’t it? People in modern times have also been vicious, hateful, and religious bigots.
But the materialist-Darwinian-science culture would never accept that.
You forgot “running-dogs-of-the-capitalist-lackeys.” 😃
No matter how much death and human misery is spread across the globe, as long as “science is making progress” that means we’re in an “enlightened era”.
We happen to live in a society that is truly much, much less vicious than medieval Europe. Be thankful.
 
And here I thought it was because of the violence, disease, ignorance, and corruption. Silly me. BTW, the “Gothic Period” was not medieval, but late Classical.

Listen, I teach Art Appreciation and the Gothic period was late Romanesque/ early Renaissance with Giotto being an artist whose style was more realistic and less like the style of Greek icons. I have no idea where you get this ‘late classical’ stuff?
The Gothic period has that name because it has a Germanic influence which stayed with the art of the Northern Renaissance and all the symbolic content of such artwork as the Merode Altar piece…a wonderful example of truly Catholic art. The term 'Gothic" came from Renaissance hstorians and was meant to be a slur against the art of the Northern areas which was not following the trend of classicism taking place in the Italian Renaissance.

Reading Pope Benedicts book on the Spirit and the Liturgy he gives a little run down of the sifferent styles leading up to the humanist approach in the Renaissance.

Ah, so you’re arguing that Medieval people were enlightened, um?

BTW, you seem to have conflated the Renaissance with the Enlightenment.

I conflate the Renaissance with the Enlightenment because the Renaissaince preceeded the enlightenment with a Christian Humanist view point and devotional art that emphasized the humanity of Christ. The enlightenment merely took away the 'God" element of Christian humanism and made it totally “human oriented” with no need for God and thus political leaders like Nepolean and French Revolutionary leaders became idealized in portraits as ‘secular’ saints.

You mean it knows political correctness when it sees it. That’s why they took Stein to task for his lies. Politically correct, they might be. Dishonest, they will remain.

You’re really surprised that Jewish people might take offense at Stein making excuses for the Holocaust? Really?

1st, Stein is a Jewish person and certainly has a right as a descendent of holocaust survivors to study that period and the resons leading up to it.
2nd, Stein did not make excuses for the holocaust, rather he researched the philosophical view behind it and applied it to the present day holocaust of the unborn…something which you seem to deny and want to pretend doesn’t exist.

In Christ
MJZ
 
Barbarian observes:
And here I thought it was because of the violence, disease, ignorance, and corruption. Silly me. BTW, the “Gothic Period” was not medieval, but late Classical.
Listen, I teach Art Appreciation and the Gothic period was late Romanesque/ early renaissance…where do you get this ‘late classical’ stuff?
The Goths appeared at the end of the Roman Empire, not the high medieval period. You’ve confused an architectural style with a historical period. Goths had nothing whatever to do with “Gothic” architecture. You might as well say that Goths wrote “gothic” novels.

Barbarian asks:
Ah, so you’re arguing that Medieval people were enlightened, um?

BTW, you seem to have conflated the Renaissance with the Enlightenment.
I conflate the renaissance with the Enlightenment because the Renaissaince preceeded the en;lightenment with a Christian Humanist view point and devoyional art that emphasized the humanity of Christ.
Different times, different ideas, different people. So they aren’t the same at all, are they?
The enlightenment merely took away the 'God" element of Christian humanism and made it totally “human oriented” with no need for God.
And yet, the Founders, who considered themselves part of the Enlightenment were generally people who believed and worshipped God. You’re confused again.

Barbarian observes:
You mean it knows political correctness when it sees it. That’s why they took Stein to task for his lies. Politically correct, they might be. Dishonest, they will remain.

You’re really surprised that Jewish people might take offense at Stein making excuses for the Holocaust? Really?
First, Stein is a jewish person
Probably why his fellow Jews are so angry with him. One would not expect a Holocaust denier to be a Jew.
and certainly has a right as a descendent of holocaust survivors to study that period and the resons leading up to it.
He has a right to make up any stories he likes. He can even publish lies if he likes. But decent people have a right to criticize and despise him for it.
2nd, Stein did not make excuses for the holocaust,
That’s what he did. The Anti-Defamation League has summed it up nicely:

** The film Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed misappropriates the Holocaust and its imagery as a part of its political effort to discredit the scientific community which rejects so-called intelligent design theory.
Code:
Hitler did not need Darwin to devise his heinous plan to exterminate the Jewish people and Darwin and evolutionary theory cannot explain Hitler’s genocidal madness.

Using the Holocaust in order to tarnish those who promote the theory of evolution is outrageous and trivializes the complex factors that led to the mass extermination of European Jewry.**
rather he researched the philosophical view behind it and applied it to the present day holocaust of the unborn…
See above. Stein did something quite popular in American culture. He took something he fears and hates, and tried to connected it to the Nazis. And he got the well-deserved scorn of those whose families suffered under the real Nazis. As you probably know, the Nazis banned abortion in Germany.
 
Barbarian observes:
And here I thought it was because of the violence, disease, ignorance, and corruption. Silly me. BTW, the “Gothic Period” was not medieval, but late Classical.

The Goths appeared at the end of the Roman Empire, not the high medieval period. You’ve confused an architectural style with a historical period. Goths had nothing whatever to do with “Gothic” architecture. You might as well say that Goths wrote “gothic” novels.

Yes…and you are the one confusaing the terms. “Gothic” refers to a style of art and a specific period of arthistory that followed the Romanesque and during which many of the great Cathedrals were built, including Chrtres. The Gothic style included flying buttresses and pointed arches allowing for stronger walls that allowed for the beautiful stained glass windows. the term 'Gothic" does indeeed reference the Goths and thus was meant to be a deragatory term for the art preceeding the Italian renaissance which rediscovered the style of the greeks and Romans…so visible in the sculptures of Michelangel and in an architecture that was more humanly scaled. So you are talking about 'Goths" as a tribal people while I am talking about the period of art history termed Gothic. The Renaissance historians wanted to discredit anything to do with the art and style preceeding the renaissance and coined the term 'Gothic**","The word Gothic, first recorded in 1611 in a reference to the language of the Goths, was extended in sense in several ways, meaning “Germanic,**” “medieval, not classical,” “barbarous,” and also an architectural style that was not Greek or Roman. "
simaqianstudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13644

Barbarian asks:
Ah, so you’re arguing that Medieval people were enlightened, um?

The Medieval age had a wisdom to it that is underated and I believe there will be a ‘rebirth’ when that wisdom is redicovered. I am not saying the age was perfect but it was also an age that is harder to judge from a modern stand point since books were not printed until the Renaissance and so history has to be pieced together more. I think the Cathedrals in Europe reveal in themeselves great mysteries of symbolism and understanding that many are just begiing to uncover and see and that as time progresses that will be recognized more. I can’t really judge that time period because i did not llive in it, but i can see evidence in the art and in the lives of great saints that it was a time of great
spiritual wisodm…not that everyone practiced that. People of today need to go back and re-read books like thge “Cloud of Unknowing” from the 14th century and in that text you get an idea of some of the spiritual wisdom of that time period.
ccel.org/ccel/anonymous2/cloud.html
it was a time of monasticism but like all good things it was attacked by materialism and pride, but out of the monastic fathers we still have great spiritual wealth

The “Immitation of Christ” by Thomas a’Kempis for example was released in the early 1400s, a testamony to mideaval spirituality.

"Thomas took the habit as a novice in 1406 and was ordained a priest in 1413 at age 33. He was made sub-prior in 1448 and part of his duties involved training the young religious. He frequently preached in the church attached to the prior and wrote a series of sermons to the Novices Regular. He wrote a series of prayers and meditations on the Life of Christ, on The Incarnation and Life of Our Lord, and was particularly focused on the suffering and passion of Christ. He was known to be kind and affable towards all, especially the sorrowful and the afflicted. Thomas spent much of his time reading, writing and in prayer. He found it difficult to engage in shallow conversations but was readily eloquent when the conversation turned to God or the concerns of the soul. After his death in 1471, at the age of 92, his remains were ultimately enshrined in a reliquary in St. Michael’s Church in Zwolle. Steps were taken in the cause of his beatification in the 17th century but were never completed.

Some controversy developed over the authorship of the “Imitation of Christ” since the book was issued anonymously in 1418. But the with a writing style identical with other works of Thomas together with the spirit of mysticism typically identified with his writings leave scholars with no serious doubt about Thomas a’ Kempis being the author of this truly classical work."

catholicradiodramas.com/Saints_Works_H_thru_J/imitation_of_christ_I%20taught%20my%20prophets.htm

In Christ, MJZ
 
Barbarian:
And yet, the Founders, who considered themselves part of the Enlightenment were generally people who believed and worshipped God. You’re confused again.

Not all the founders believed in God as Catholics believe in God. Many were Masons and that is not a Catholic view.Ben Franklin had problems with believing in the Divinity of Christ for example:

"“As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble. I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequence, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and better observed; especially as I do not perceive that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in His government of the world with any particular marks of His displeasure.”
exchristian.net/exchristian/2002/03/ben-franklin-quotes.php

While I agree that many of the founders, including Frankiln acknowledge a Supreme being and that goes to their credit, they were not fully Catholic, many coming from Protestant backgrounds and being anti-Catholic to one degree or another.

Probably why his fellow Jews are so angry with him. One would not expect a Holocaust denier to be a Jew.

Ben Stein never denied the holocaust. Your statement is totally out of line.

** The film Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed misappropriates the Holocaust and its imagery as a part of its political effort to discredit the scientific community which rejects so-called intelligent design theory.

See above. Stein did something quite popular in American culture. He took something he fears and hates, and tried to connected it to the Nazis. And he got the well-deserved scorn of those whose families suffered under the real Nazis. As you probably know, the Nazis banned abortion in Germany.**

He did that not from his imagination but by researching the historical ties, including going to Germany and the death camps where his research was confirmed.

In Christ, MJZ
 
I watched ben Stein’s documentary and I believe he was very unbiased in his approach.
Since Stein banned any theistic evolutionists from his film, that issue is settled; his bias was obvious.
he went to all sides seeking answers.
No, he only went to those he thought would reinforce his prejudices.
In the end he showed science is not as open to questions as it should be if it really wants to find answers.
Rather, it showed Ben Stein is not as open as he pretended to be. He allowed only viewpoints that served his propaganda purposes.
That is a fair assesment. I am sorry that you are being closed minded and unable to hear his point of view.
His point of view was quite clear; “no intelligence allowed.” He simply banned anyone whose views did not conform to his prejudices.
As soon as any area of academic study puts itself above reproach there is a danger that it will wither and progress falsely or not at all. Shows how important the virtue of ‘humility’ is in all endeavors.
That, perhaps, is the one thing Stein’s movie can show us. His frantic accusations and censorship of any ideas that he doesn’t like are a textbook case. As my Dad said, no one is completely worthless; they can always serve as a bad example.
The purgrative process rquires a sincere desire for truth and sometimes that means facing what faults honestly.
Seems unlikely. Stein and his fellow Holocaust deniers show no sign of accepting any reality that does not conform to their prejudices.
 
Barbarian observes:
And yet, the Founders, who considered themselves part of the Enlightenment were generally people who believed and worshipped God. You’re confused again.
Not all the founders believed in God as Catholics believe in God.
The Church says that such people, although in error in some ways, remain our brothers in Christ. You should accept the Church’s teaching in this.

To deny that Christians of other denominations believe in God is not merely unCatholic, it is false witness.

Barbarian observes:
Probably why his fellow Jews are so angry with him. One would not expect a Holocaust denier to be a Jew.
Ben Stein never denied the holocaust.
His fellow Jews have said so. He denied the motivation for it, made excuses for the Nazis, and dishonestly pretended that scientists were operationg the death camps.
The Anti-Defamation League has condemned him for his denial. Rightly so. By trying to link science to the Holocaust, he has dishonered the millions who died in the death camps.
Your statement is totally out of line.
It is precisely on target. His own people condemned his denial and blood libel.

** The film Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed misappropriates the Holocaust and its imagery as a part of its political effort to discredit the scientific community which rejects so-called intelligent design theory.

Hitler did not need Darwin to devise his heinous plan to exterminate the Jewish people and Darwin and evolutionary theory cannot explain Hitler’s genocidal madness.

Using the Holocaust in order to tarnish those who promote the theory of evolution is outrageous and trivializes the complex factors that led to the mass extermination of European Jewry.**
Anti-Defamation League

Barbarian observes:
See above. Stein did something quite popular in American culture. He took something he fears and hates, and tried to connected it to the Nazis. And he got the well-deserved scorn of those whose families suffered under the real Nazis. As you probably know, the Nazis banned abortion in Germany.
He did that not from his imagination but by researching the historical ties, including going to Germany and the death camps where his research was confirmed.
Where he claimed scientists were pushing people into the gas chambers? C’mon Mary. You can’t be that gullible.

He simply invented the idea that scientists thought up the Holocaust, when the historical record shows that 90 percent of it was proposed by Martin Luther. And the Nazis freely credited him for it.

Would you like to see the evidence, again?
 
Barbarian observes:
And yet, the Founders, who considered themselves part of the Enlightenment were generally people who believed and worshipped God. You’re confused again.

The Church says that such people, although in error in some ways, remain our brothers in Christ. You should accept the Church’s teaching in this.

To deny that Christians of other denominations believe in God is not merely unCatholic, it is false witness.

There is an old fashion word “heresy” which applies to false teachings not inline with universal truth. People in other denominations are separated from truth by different degree (and some Catholics as well) according to how much they deny truth as revealed through Church teaching by the power of the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, promised by Christ. Thay may believe in a ‘higher power’ or in Jesus, but it may be their version of Jesus and God. I cannot judge them as to how they are searching for truth but i can point to truth and falsehood and say which is which
as long as I am pointing to what the church says and not my own personal opinion.Denying truth can be a form of denying Christ when done in stubborn resistance to truth. I can have a brother who is separated from Christ and I can love that brother, but that doesn’t change the state of his separation.

Barbarian observes:
Probably why his fellow Jews are so angry with him. One would not expect a Holocaust denier to be a Jew.

He nerver denied the holocaust.

His fellow Jews have said so.
I would say the Jewish Antdefamation League was in denial…certainly that one group doesn’t have any Divine promise that they will not err on such things at any rate.

He simply invented the idea that scientists thought up the Holocaust, when the historical record shows that 90 percent of it was proposed by Martin Luther. And the Nazis freely credited him for it.

Would you like to see the evidence, again?
What evidence? Everything you showed had holes in it.And no…I don’t want to go down that rickity road all over again. I was satisfied that everything you offered was skewed wrongly. Many others posying here saw the same thing.
We have colpleted this argument and shown that Darwin’s fingerprints are on the philosophical views leading to the holocaust and the culture of death we have today.
 
Barbarian, regarding Mary’s claim that the Founders did not worship God as we understand God:
The Church says that such people, although in error in some ways, remain our brothers in Christ. You should accept the Church’s teaching in this.

To deny that Christians of other denominations believe in God is not merely unCatholic, it is false witness.
There is an old fashion word “heresy” which applies to false teachings not inline with universal truth. People in other denominations are separated from truth by different degree
So are you and I. None of us has it perfectly. But you are dissenting from the Church’s teachings about our brothers in Christ among other denominations, even if they are in error in some ways.

Barbarian observes:
Probably why his fellow Jews are so angry with him. One would not expect a Holocaust denier to be a Jew.
He nerver denied the holocaust.
Barbarian observes:
His fellow Jews have said so.
I would say the Jewish Antdefamation League was in denial…
They object to Stein making excuses for the Nazis and for using the tragedy of the Holocaust to further his petty political grudges.

Barbarian observes:
He simply invented the idea that scientists thought up the Holocaust, when the historical record shows that 90 percent of it was proposed by Martin Luther. And the Nazis freely credited him for it.

Would you like to see the evidence, again?
What evidence?
Luther’s advice to princes on what to do with the Jews. “The Jews and Their Lies.” It includes:
  • confiscation of property and wealth
  • revocation of citizenship
  • destruction of Jewish schools and synagogues
  • forced labor
  • forced relocation
  • prohibition of teaching Jewish religion
Why bother denying it, Mary? That is from where the Holocaust came, not Darwin, who wrote that it was an overwhelming evil to let even the least of humans die.
Everything you showed had holes in it.
I’d be open to your claim that Luther’s article was faked, or that he was just kidding.
And no…I don’t want to go down that rickity road all over again.
You just did. With the same results.
We have colpleted this argument and shown that Darwin’s fingerprints are on the philosophical views leading to the holocaust and the culture of death we have today.
Nice try. But facts remain the facts, no matter how hard you deny them.
 
  • confiscation of property and wealth
  • revocation of citizenship
  • destruction of Jewish schools and synagogues
  • forced labor
  • forced relocation
  • prohibition of teaching Jewish religion
Why bother denying it, Mary? That is from where the Holocaust came, not Darwin, who wrote that it was an overwhelming evil to let even the least of humans die.

That is prejudice against Jewish people true, but it doesn’t explain why the Germans did it to gypsies, orthodox catholics, retarded people,disabled people, political enemies…and other racially inferior peoples. The german Holocause was not just anti-Jewish. The Jewish people even know that.

Your claim is illogical and cannot possible account for the entire
holocaust, the methodologies and the people targetted.

IU will not go further down the road…but be assurred you never proved this all came from martin Luther, even though I know you have the ego that thinks just because you said something it must be so…

END OF ARGUMENT

In Christ, maryJohnZ
 
Elements of the Holocaust first proposed by Martin Luther for the Jews:
confiscation of property and wealth
revocation of citizenship
destruction of Jewish schools and synagogues
forced labor
forced relocation
prohibition of teaching Jewish religion

Why bother denying it, Mary? That is from where the Holocaust came, not Darwin, who wrote that it was an overwhelming evil to let even the least of humans die.
That is prejudice against Jewish people true,
It’s a bit more then “prejudice”; it’s theft of all they have, enslavement, and destruction of their culture and religion.
but it doesn’t explain why the Germans did it to gypsies, orthodox catholics, retarded people,disabled people, political enemies…and other racially inferior peoples. The german Holocause was not just anti-Jewish. The Jewish people even know that.
The Nazis later applied their hatred to others. But if you read the history of their movement, it was initially aimed only at Jews.

You don’t want to admit that the culture of death you decry, came from Luther instead of science. But it’s time to accept the truth, Mary.
I will not go further down the road…but be assurred you never proved this all came from martin Luther, even though I know you have the ego that thinks just because you said something it must be so…
My opinion is that if Luther proposed it, he meant it. What evidence do you have that he didn’t?
 
Elements of the Holocaust first proposed by Martin Luther for the Jews:
confiscation of property and wealth
revocation of citizenship
destruction of Jewish schools and synagogues
forced labor
forced relocation
prohibition of teaching Jewish religion

Why bother denying it, Mary? That is from where the Holocaust came, not Darwin, who wrote that it was an overwhelming evil to let even the least of humans die.

It’s a bit more then “prejudice”; it’s theft of all they have, enslavement, and destruction of their culture and religion.

The Nazis later applied their hatred to others. But if you read the history of their movement, it was initially aimed only at Jews.

THE NAZIS ALSO HATED CHRITIANITY

I/WE SHOWED THAT IN NUMEROUS POSTS AND YOU NEVER ACCEPTED THAT!

STOP NEGATING EVIDENCE PROVIDED BY OTHERS> THAT ISN"T THE WAY TO FINDING TRUTH.

YOU ALSO ARE NEGATING HITLER"S REFERENCES TO NATURE< AND RACIAL PURITY>>>

ALL LEADING TO A SENSE HE WAS FOLLOWING A CALL FOR GENETIC PURITY, SOMETHING WHICH IS WIDELY ACKNOWLEDGED AS HISTORIC FACT.
 
THE NAZIS ALSO HATED CHRITIANITY
But they loved Martin Luther. Praised him effusively.
/WE SHOWED THAT IN NUMEROUS POSTS AND YOU NEVER ACCEPTED THAT!
Never said anything about it, one way or another. Hitler hated the Pope, and was a little afraid of him, because of his influence.
STOP NEGATING EVIDENCE PROVIDED BY OTHERS
You’re the one in denial about where the Nazis got their ideas for the Holocaust.

You’ve seen what Luther wrote. And yet you can’t bring yourself to accept the truth.
ALL LEADING TO A SENSE HE WAS FOLLOWING A CALL FOR GENETIC PURITY, SOMETHING WHICH IS WIDELY ACKNOWLEDGED AS HISTORIC FACT.
You’re accepting it on Hitler’s terms. As you should know by now, Darwinists convincingly showed that Hitler’s idea of genetics was bunk.
 
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