Benedict XVI: After the Council, I was 'too timid' in challenging liberals [Allen]

[Richardols]

Then why are there many dissidents saying “that it’s not necessary to be Catholic”?

What does the FACT that the Church has defined what the Church is and what salvation is have to do with the necessity to be Catholic?

And your point being is what?

Allowing the Tridentine Rite doesn’t mean that many people will use it.

And you are?

I didn’t say that I was the final word, but I know that that bunch you named aren’t.

 

[Richardols]

Did he really? Who are you to tell the Pope how to do his job?

No one is telling him how to do his job, but we can evaluate how he’s doing it. Have you noted how frequently someone or other critcizes either a bishop or even all our bishops? Are they telling them how to do their jobs? No, but they can evaluate those men’s performances.

 

[bones_IV]

What does the FACT that the Church has defined what the Church is and what salvation is have to do with the necessity to be Catholic?

“There’s no salvation outside the Church.”

and

Vatican II says that “its possible for a non-Catholic to be saved.”

Theologically the same thing.

I didn’t say that I was the final word, but I know that that bunch you named aren’t.

But you said,

That’s all very nice, but EWTN, Augustinas, and Inside the Vatican aren’t the final word on the effectiveness of Benedict’s Papacy.

Sounds like a parroting statement if you ask me.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

bones_IV

Did he really? Who are you to tell the Pope how to do his job?

I’m not telling him how to do his job, but just making the observation of the consequences of his poor decisions.

So telling the truth is all about timing?! Hahahahahahahha…that’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. Using your logic we should let all people go to hell!

When it comes to dialog with the rest of the world, yes, timing and how you say things is important. Driving people away from the Church will help the population of hell more than the population of heaven.

Only in your imagination.

So you’re telling me that nuns were not killed and churches burned after Pope Benedict’s 13th century quote against Islam?

.

Jim

 

[bones_IV]

No one is telling him how to do his job, but we can evaluate how he’s doing it.

I don’t about you, but when someone says that Benedict’s statements are “ill-chosen” or “poor timed” that sounds like bitterness to me.

Have you noted how frequently someone or other critcizes either a bishop or even all our bishops?

Yeah so? We are reminding them of their pastoral responsibilities.

Are they telling them how to do their jobs? No, but they can evaluate those men’s performances.

I think Benedict has done a darn good job! I don’t give a rats but what the Protestants say regarding the Pope’s statements on salvation. Nor do I care what the reaction is among the Islamist fundamentalists regarding the Regensberg address. No matter what people say and do we are to spread the gospel. The timing doesn’t matter.

 

[Richardols]

Sounds like a parroting statement if you ask me.

Sorry that you don’t like it, but it’s a fact. That bunch isn’t the final word in Catholicism.

 

[Richardols]

I don’t about you, but when someone says that Benedict’s statements are “ill-chosen” or “poor timed” that sounds like bitterness to me.

You’ve a right to believe that.

Yeah so? We are reminding them of their pastoral responsibilities.

Not true, unless one actually speaks to the bishop(s) reminding them. Otherwise, it’s just comment and evaluation.

I think Benedict has done a darn good job! I don’t give a rats but what the Protestants say regarding the Pope’s statements on salvation. Nor do I care what the reaction is among the Islamist fundamentalists regarding the Regensberg address. No matter what people say and do we are to spread the gospel. The timing doesn’t matter.

Okay to be a fan of his, but not everyone shares your enthusiasm.

 

[bones_IV]

bones_IV I’m not telling him how to do his job, but just making the observation of the consequences of his poor decisions.

Where’s your anger when the Islamists where calling for his death?

When it comes to dialog with the rest of the world, yes, timing and how you say things is important. Driving people away from the Church will help the population of hell more than the population of heaven.

This isn’t about making people feel good.

So you’re telling me that nuns were not killed and churches burned after Pope Benedict’s 13th century quote against Islam?

So it’s the Pope’s fault that the nuns and the Churches burned as a result of using a 13th century qoute?

 

[bones_IV]

You’ve a right to believe that.

And I do.

Not true, unless one actually speaks to the bishop(s) reminding them. Otherwise, it’s just comment and evaluation.

We are condemning sin for what it is.

Okay to be a fan of his, but not everyone shares your enthusiasm.

Sounds like you have an ax to grind

 

[JimR-OCDS]

bones_IV

Where’s your anger when the Islamists where calling for his death?

They were wrong too.

This isn’t about making people feel good.

Its about being Christ-like.

So it’s the Pope’s fault that the nuns and the Churches burned as a result of using a 13th century quote?

He needs to know that as leader of the Catholic Church, his words need to be chosen carefully so as not to inflame. There are Catholics living in hostile countries. His words can cause death, as they already have.

Jim

 

[Richardols]

We are condemning sin for what it is.

surely you are not claiming to be able to judge those bishops’ sins! That’s chutzpah! Commenting on good or bad management or on what appear to be failures of orthodoxy is not the same as accusing the bishops of sin.

Sounds like you have an ax to grind

Not being enthusiastic about the man doesn’t equate to having an ax to grind against him.

 

[bones_IV]

surely you are not claiming to be able to judge those bishops’ sins!

Are we not our brother’s keeper?

That’s chutzpah!

:whacky:

Not being enthusiastic about the man doesn’t equate to having an ax to grind against him.

But you said,

That’s all very nice, but EWTN, Augustinas, and Inside the Vatican aren’t the final word on the effectiveness of Benedict’s Papacy.

 

[bones_IV]

Its about being Christ-like.

Christ came not to bring peace but the sword.

He needs to know that as leader of the Catholic Church, his words need to be chosen carefully so as not to inflame.

Are you saying that the Islamists were justified in killing innocent people?!

There are Catholics living in hostile countries. His words can cause death, as they already have. Jim

Which is justifying terrorism.

 

[OMI]

Contrary to what fundamentalist Catholics think, this Pope has not been healthy for the Catholic Church, nor Christianity, in my opinion. He will never be the great Pope that John Paul II was.

He’s only been Pope a short while, and he’s had to retract or have some handler in the Vatican, re-explain what he meant. His gaff about Islam cost people their lives. I’ve never seen this before in the Popes of my lifetime, from John XXIII on.

Jim

I disagree. He is the best Pope since Pope Pius 10 IMO…

 

[Pious_Mat]

I too think Benedict is the best Pope since Pius X. Benedict is shaping up to be the Pope who will bring the liturgy back to Tradition, and make the Novus Ordo fully live up to its expectations in practice.

He has clearly defined where we as Catholics stand on numerous issues, and that we aren’t willing to compromise the truth.

Yes, he may have inflamed some Muslim radicals in proclaiming the Truth, but do you mean to tell me that Muslim violence against Chrisitians is all Benedict’s fault? Next thing you know, people will be saying that 9/11 was his fault.

John Paul II may have made me feel good about myself and my faith (on top of setting an ideal of what every priest should be like), but Benedict, in this short amount of time, has already helped deepen my personal relationship with Jesus Christ through his wise words and writings.

In short, Benedict probably doesn’t care about what heretics and media-types think. He cares about getting souls to Heaven. Bottom line. Good relations with Islam and modernist heresies don’t get more people to Heaven. Re-enforcing Church teaching and refining Catholic spirituality does.

Tact is important in this, of course, but there is such a thing as too much tact, which JPII, as you might recall, wouldn’t approve of. He didn’t approve of the war in Iraq, despite what many Americans thought about him as a result.

 

[chris_molter]

Terrible that you would blame the Holy Father for the excesses of Muslim barbarians.

I guess he was “asking for it”, huh? Maybe we should just play nice with the Islamic world and not challenge them.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

bones_IV

Christ came not to bring peace but the sword.

It was the sword against sin, not people. You seem to enjoy the idea of the Pope using a sword against the people.

Are you saying that the Islamists were justified in killing innocent people?!

Oh come on, I never said that. I said that he needs to chose his words carefully, because in fact, inflamatory talk can bring consequences to innocent people. It now way justifies what radical muslims did. But the reality of the world is, there are Christians living in hostile lands where radical Muslims will retaliate against the innocent, for ill chosen words spoken by the Pope.

Which is justifying terrorism.

If you’re going to play stupid, there’s no need of continuing with this conversation.

Again I in now way shape or form, justified terrorism.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Terrible that you would blame the Holy Father for the excesses of Muslim barbarians.

I guess he was “asking for it”, huh? Maybe we should just play nice with the Islamic world and not challenge them.

No one is justifying the excesses of radical Muslims.

However, when he’s not the one living in harms way, as Christians are, who live in these hostile places, the Pope has to be more careful on what he says.

BTW, do you agree with the Pope’s appeasement to Muslims, after he apologized for his ill chosen words?

Jim

 

[Ender]

do you agree with the Pope’s appeasement to Muslims, after he apologized for his ill chosen words?

I don’t believe his words were ill chosen and I don’t believe he apologized for saying what he did.

Ender

 

[bones_IV]

No one is justifying the excesses of radical Muslims.

But you say his words were

ill chosen

Not to burst your bubble. But he said, “I’m if sorry if I offended”. Not “I apologize”. Big difference! Who will you defend next? The Nazis?