Benedict XVI questions German 'church tax'[CC]

[Catholic_Press]

Pope-emeritus Benedict XVI questions the reliance of the German Catholic hierarchy on the “church tax” in the new book-length interview published in Italy, the daily L’Espresso notes.

More…

 

[ShrodingersCat]

I’ve never liked the concept. Charity should not be forced by the church. Especially requirements as to the amount.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

The article is very brief and only has a small snippet from Benedict XVI, but I’d be curious what others thought about this line from him…

I do not mean that there should not be an ecclesiastical tax, but the automatic excommunication of those who do not pay it, in my view, is not sustainable

…specifically not wishing to eliminate the tax.

 

[Pug]

The article is very brief and only has a small snippet from Benedict XVI, but I’d be curious what others thought about this line from him…

…specifically not wishing to eliminate the tax.

I don’t think there is enough there in the article to go on RE: the emeritus pope’s thoughts. But I can see why it would be convenient to have a payroll deduction collected and delivered to the doorstep of the parish. If I were German, I’d like to be able to choose the amount/percent to be given. As it stands, I’m rather glad I don’t live in Germany.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

I don’t think there is enough there in the article to go on RE: the emeritus pope’s thoughts.

Yeah, and I’ve checked a few articles on this matter and they all have that same one brief quote from him. The articles say it is from a book-length interview so I’d be curious when that comes out what the full context of the quote is, since admonishing the German Church for its excommunications but wanting to keep the tax seems to move things in opposite directions.

The comments section on one article here notes, fairly or unfairly, that Benedict had plenty of the time to speak on the matter when pope:
Ana Milan:

PB had plenty of time to do something about this fraud both as head of the CDF & as Pope but he chose not to. Either he hadn’t the enthusiasm/backbone that was necessary & which drives PF, or he also liked the money the CC derived from this tax.

The CC is not a political organisation & will not progress until it finds its way back to teaching the Word of Christ which was His only instruction to the First Apostles.

But I can see why it would be convenient to have a payroll deduction collected and delivered to the doorstep of the parish. If I were German, I’d like to be able to choose the amount/percent to be given. As it stands, I’m rather glad I don’t live in Germany.

I have to think most people German and non-German would agree with you.

 

[Wesrock]

To avoid that extra tax, many Germans have removed their registration as Catholics; in response, German bishops have said that Catholics who are not registered will not have access to the sacraments.

I know I’m really in no place to judge a Bishop, let alone a conference of them, but this just sounds plain wrong to me. Perhaps that’s my American background…

 

[CrossofChrist]

The article is very brief and only has a small snippet from Benedict XVI, but I’d be curious what others thought about this line from him…

…specifically not wishing to eliminate the tax.

Fine by me. I’d say 2-3% would be better, maybe expand the range of people who do not have to pay it. I basically agree with Father Benedict.

Just my opinion.

 

[tafan]

I’ve never liked the concept. Charity should not be forced by the church. Especially requirements as to the amount.

Different countries, cultures, historical reasons, can certainly lead to different, but legitimate differences in this regard.

One thing that is wrong is referring to support of the Church as charity (that is, charity in the sense of giving money to those in need). Giving money to the church is an obligation, the same as providing food for one’s family. It may be considered charity for tax purposes, but it is not that in reality.

Yes we do it out of love (ie charity in the sense of love), but we must do it, under pain of mortal sin.

 

[abucs]

Anyone have information on how the Church has been financed through the centuries?

Did we have tithing at any stage for example?

 

[tafan]

Anyone have information on how the Church has been financed through the centuries?

Did we have tithing at any stage for example?

You will likely find all different means throughout different places and times. In the middle ages, in Europe, the Bishop owned lots of property and income from the property funded much of the expenses, along with large donations and contributions from nobility.

My home town, a small Midwestern Catholic farming community, used to have a pew tax, based on how much land you owned. That lasted until the 1950s.

Government funding has been common in many countries in modern times (often as a means to control the Church).

There is not onw, right answer.

 

[e_c]

In Catholic Germany, you can divorce and remarry and we’ll nod and wink in the Communion line, but don’t pay the tax and you are literally excommunicated.

Something is awry.

There is a reason Germany is a spiritual wasteland - it is an economic paradise for the Church.

 

[Pug]

The comments section on one article here notes, fairly or unfairly, that Benedict had plenty of the time to speak on the matter when pope:

Ana Milan:

PB had plenty of time to do something about this fraud both as head of the CDF & as Pope but he chose not to. Either he hadn’t the enthusiasm/backbone that was necessary & which drives PF, or he also liked the money the CC derived from this tax.

I think one cannot safely surmise that he did not do this or that about it out of cowardice or greed. These would require proof. Lack of enthusiasm for doing this or that would be easier to support, yet is still a stretch. Does anyone know with certainty that he did not have quiet words with various bishops on the topic, perhaps during Ad Limina or some such? There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Although Ms. Milan praises Francis, I note that he has been pope awhile and yet the tax remains.

 

[Rau]

In Catholic Germany, you can divorce and remarry and we’ll nod and wink in the Communion line, but don’t pay the tax and you are literally excommunicated.

Something is awry.

There is a reason Germany is a spiritual wasteland - it is an economic paradise for the Church.

While there maybe some truth in that, one avoids the tax by not declaring a religion in some form (secular / tax related). Declaring a religion in that form is for the purpose of volunteering to pay the tax - the form asks for you religion for no other reason (as I recall). This is my memory of many years ago - there may be others with more current information.

 

[dans0622]

This issue has been a contentious one for many years. Ten years ago (i.e., during the pontificate of Benedict XVI) the Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts stated:

“the formal act of defection must have more than a juridical-administrative character (the removal of one’s name from a Church membership registry maintained by the government in order to produce certain civil consequences), but be configured as a true separation from the constitutive elements of the life of the Church: it supposes, therefore, an act of apostasy, heresy or schism.” See here, at n. 2: vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html

Nevertheless, it seems the German bishops have continued to impose a practical “excommunication” on those who remove their names from the government religion registry. So, they continue to practically equate this act with heresy/apostasy/schism.

Dan