Benedictine Oblate #2

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My first book on Lectio Divina arrived ( Too Deep For Words). I will review it soon 🙂
 
jwinch2 said:
christminster.org/about/oblate-observances/

This might be interesting for any of our Orthodox brothers and sisters. Also, I might suggest looking in their book store. They have a monastic diurnal which is noted in English for chanting the hours.

Peace of Christ,

Jason
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The Monastic Diurnal is beautiful, but confusing (at least to me). Extra Psalms, for example, when compared to the LotH.

Having said that, my monastery does a LotH “plus”…an extra Psalm at Lauds and at Vespers (stolen from 1 of the other hours) and a (usually) much longer Reading.

Also, when a Psalm is split in the LotH, we recombine it, and steal another Psalm from the day hours.

I am preparing to pray Vespers now. Here is the schema

135 (all together, not split as it is in the regular LotH), 22:2-12 (stolen from Daytime Prayer), NTC, Gal 3:7-14, 22:23-32 (again, stolen)

We almost never split a Psalm (although, as you can see above with 22, we did–exception to the rule 😉 ). We never split Psalms when they are in Lauds and Vespers, though. The only split Psalms (again a rarity) are the those stolen from the other Hours.

I love it 🙂
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
The Monastic Diurnal is beautiful, but confusing (at least to me). Extra Psalms, for example, when compared to the LotH.

Having said that, my monastery does a LotH “plus”…an extra Psalm at Lauds and at Vespers (stolen from 1 of the other hours) and a (usually) much longer Reading.

Also, when a Psalm is split in the LotH, we recombine it, and steal another Psalm from the day hours.

I am preparing to pray Vespers now. Here is the schema

135 (all together, not split as it is in the regular LotH), 22:2-12 (stolen from Daytime Prayer), NTC, Gal 3:7-14, 22:23-32 (again, stolen)

We almost never split a Psalm (although, as you can see above with 22, we did–exception to the rule 😉 ). We never split Psalms when they are in Lauds and Vespers, though. The only split Psalms (again a rarity) are the those stolen from the other Hours.

I love it 🙂
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Interesting. I typically just do the LotH by using DivineOffice.org. If I end up becoming an Oblate, I will probably try to learn how to use the Monastic Diurnal so that I am in line with what is going on wherever I end up becoming affiliated.

As far as that goes, I heard back from the priest in Iowa regarding St. Gregory’s. He doesn’t really know much about the Abbey. He has met the Abbot and said that he seemed solid. He recommended that I look into Our Lady of Clear Creek but I have already done that and I don’t think they take Oblates. After getting his e-mail, I looked back over my e-mail conversations with Fr. Martin at St Gregory’s regarding Sister Joan. The thing which jumps out at me and that I am having a hard time getting around was his statement that while she is a women’s right advocate, she has always remained faithful to the Church. I don’t want to be uncharitable here as he has been very nice to me, but I am having a very hard time with that statement.

I have sent out a few more e-mails to monasteries within a 6 hour distance and explained my situation. In the e-mail I simply asked if they take distance Oblates and told them that I am looking for an authentic approach to spirituality that is completely faithful to the Magesterium. I will be curious to see if I get any sort of response.
 
jwinch2 said:
Interesting. I typically just do the LotH by using DivineOffice.org. If I end up becoming an Oblate, I will probably try to learn how to use the Monastic Diurnal so that I am in line with what is going on wherever I end up becoming affiliated.

As far as that goes, I heard back from the priest in Iowa regarding St. Gregory’s. He doesn’t really know much about the Abbey. He has met the Abbot and said that he seemed solid. He recommended that I look into Our Lady of Clear Creek but I have already done that and I don’t think they take Oblates. After getting his e-mail, I looked back over my e-mail conversations with Fr. Martin at St Gregory’s regarding Sister Joan. The thing which jumps out at me and that** I am having a hard time getting around was his statement that while she is a women’s right advocate, she has always remained faithful to the Church. I don’t want to be uncharitable here as he has been very nice to me, but I am having a very hard time with that statement**.

I have sent out a few more e-mails to monasteries within a 6 hour distance and explained my situation. In the e-mail I simply asked if they take distance Oblates and told them that I am looking for an authentic approach to spirituality that is completely faithful to the Magesterium. I will be curious to see if I get any sort of response.
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My visits to the local monastery had some interactions with one brother in particular, the novice director, which had the same effect on me. I have a “hard time” with some of the things he says to the point where they really bother me and I thought about them at length. The more I struggled with what this man said in direct response to my questions, the more it upset my peace.

I’m going to suggest something radical here - that you not only let it go but that you embrace it. I’m not suggesting that you embrace sin, or heretical teaching, but that you just not resist, and instead see her passion and try to learn more about why she has the ideas she does. If you were a monk in the monastery, you would have to do this every day, every time you encounter something that you had a “Hard time” with, you would have to negate your own will.

I have it in my mind if I get the chance, to ask this brother why he said the things he did, what he means by them, and to be honest that I have a hard time with what he said. I will ask out of humility and a desire to learn, not as a challenge. I hope I get the chance. At the end of the day I get to drive home and don’t have to interact with him again if I don’t want to, and I can always say, “That guy is nuts!” Or, I just might learn something.

Sometimes the things which we have the most visceral response to are the things which challenge us the most.

I hope I make sense. 🤷

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
I’m going to suggest something radical here - that you not only let it go but that you embrace it. I’m not suggesting that you embrace sin, or heretical teaching, but that you just not resist, and instead see her passion and try to learn more about why she has the ideas she does.
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Tim,

I appreciate your comments.

However, at the risk of being rude, Sr. Joan has openly and repeatedly challenged Church teaching on issues which have been infallibly defined. She has been part of a group which has advocated moving “beyond Jesus”. Frankly, I want no part of it.

It is the dismissal of this type of anti Catholic belief as being a ‘women’s rights advocate’ which has me concerned.

Perhaps someday I will be in a place where I can look beyond that stuff, but I am not there now. I am too new to the Faith and there are still too many things that I don’t know for me to take chances at putting myself in a non-orthodox setting. I am not interested in going to place which is going to challenge my faith. I need a place which is going to foster and enhance it so that I am better able to live it in the real world the way that I am supposed to.

Sorry for being so direct.

Peace,
 
I await your posts with interest, sir 🙂

To be clear: not all monasteries (at least to my understanding) use the Monastic Diurnal. I would venture to guess that more use the Liturgy of the Hours than the MD.
 
TimothyH said:
Sometimes the things which we have the most visceral response to are the things which challenge us the most.

I hope I make sense. 🤷

-Tim-
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Tim,

I do not mean this as a slap to your post in any way, OK?

Been there, done that, though, with another group of the Church. Some very wonderful people, so I stayed (for 10 years). A very vocal minority that were espousing ideas that went against the teachings of the Church. Kept saying to myself “well, they are on the opposite side on several issues; maybe God is trying to test my patience/humility/loyalty/what have you”. In the end, I just couldn’t take it anymore. So I left. Very difficult decision, I can assure you.

I love my Bennie group. They “fit” so well, that at times I wonder if it isn’t too “easy”*. I have prayed and prayed and prayed about this. My conclusion: they fit because, well, they fit. Stop fighting it, Lou.
  • I am not saying that they are a perfect fit. They are very Charismatic. Not saying that it’s wrong for them to be so. It just isn’t my “thing”. But it isn’t harmful and is rooted in a love of the Holy Spirit. Maybe letting go and accepting the fainting 😃 is my “challenge” .
    I can live with that. Much better than having to deal with an openly lesbian “couple” (with child 😦 ) as I had to in my former group, that’s for sure.
 
I heard back from the Oblate director at Norica today. As he describe their focus they are “…faithful to the Magesterium of the Church, and we are’t into any of the goofy modernist spiritual trends. Our spirituality is grounded in the tradition of the Fathers of the Church, the Desert Fathers, and traditional monastic spirituality”.

This of course, is exactly what I am searching for. The only real problem is that they require a retreat in Italy for a few days before they allow anyone to start formation as an Oblate. This is not really an option for me. In addition, there is also the issue of not being located within any reasonable distance. Like several others, he recommended the Monks at Our Lady of Clear Creek. However, as I have noted before they do not make mention of Oblates on their website and they have not responded to my inquiries as of today.
 
jwinch2 said:
I heard back from the Oblate director at Norica today. As he describe their focus they are “…faithful to the Magesterium of the Church, and we are’t into any of the goofy modernist spiritual trends. Our spirituality is grounded in the tradition of the Fathers of the Church, the Desert Fathers, and traditional monastic spirituality”.

This of course, is exactly what I am searching for. The only real problem is that they require a retreat in Italy for a few days before they allow anyone to start formation as an Oblate. This is not really an option for me. In addition, there is also the issue of not being located within any reasonable distance. Like several others, he recommended the Monks at Our Lady of Clear Creek. However, as I have noted before they do not make mention of Oblates on their website and they have not responded to my inquiries as of today.
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Wow, Norcia sounds fantastic.

Prayers offered for you, Jason.
 
Finished Chapters 1-3 of this book. Absolutely fantastic (up to this point). I am actually “saving” Chapter 4, which is about the meat and potatoes of Lectio Divina, because I am enjoying the book so much, that I don’t want to rush through it.

My monks were right, as usual. 😃

http://christdesert.org/images/Links/cart/too_deep_lg.jpg
 
OK, finished the “How to” part. Only downside (for me) was a brief approving mention of centering prayer (not described, just mentioned).

Overall grade A-. 🙂
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
OK, finished the “How to” part. Only downside (for me) was a brief approving mention of centering prayer (not described, just mentioned).

Overall grade A-. 🙂
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Thanks for that. I don’t know much about the idea of Centering Prayer. I have heard it dismissed by some Catholics as an incorporation of new age or eastern monastic practice into the Church. However, I have also heard it discussed as being part of the Christian tradition going all the way back to the Desert Fathers.
 
The first 3 parts are “easy”. Just can’t get Contemplatio, though:(
 
Some potential news. I heard back from a Monk at Our Lady of Clear Creek Abbey and it appears as if they might have Oblates afterall. He sent me some word documents that he had put together which discusses Oblates in general, and at Clear Creek specifically. He also said that he didn’t get my first e-mail. I probably typed the address in wrong or something like that. I responded right away asking how thing would proceed assuming that they were interested in having me so I guess we will see what happens from here.

Peace,

Jason
 
jwinch2 said:
Some potential news. I heard back from a Monk at Our Lady of Clear Creek Abbey and it appears as if they might have Oblates afterall. He sent me some word documents that he had put together which discusses Oblates in general, and at Clear Creek specifically. He also said that he didn’t get my first e-mail. I probably typed the address in wrong or something like that. I responded right away asking how thing would proceed assuming that they were interested in having me so I guess we will see what happens from here.

Peace,

Jason
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Woooooohoooooo! Praise God!

Told ya it would work out 😃
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
Woooooohoooooo! Praise God!

Told ya it would work out 😃
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Well, its far from worked out, but I am certainly more optimistic than I was yesterday at this time. Clear Creek is about 5 hours away from where I live but it will likely be worth it. The more I learn about Benedictine Spirituality, the more I like it.

One of the things which was in the article sent was interesting. They do not have Oblate meetings, they deal with their Oblates individually.

Thanks for the support, I will of course keep everyone in the loop with what happens. I have a few other e-mails out as well so its hard to know where this is going right now.

Peace,
 
jwinch2 said:
Tim,

I appreciate your comments.

However, at the risk of being rude, Sr. Joan has openly and repeatedly challenged Church teaching on issues which have been infallibly defined. She has been part of a group which has advocated moving “beyond Jesus”. Frankly, I want no part of it.

It is the dismissal of this type of anti Catholic belief as being a ‘women’s rights advocate’ which has me concerned.

Perhaps someday I will be in a place where I can look beyond that stuff, but I am not there now. I am too new to the Faith and there are still too many things that I don’t know for me to take chances at putting myself in a non-orthodox setting. I am not interested in going to place which is going to challenge my faith. I need a place which is going to foster and enhance it so that I am better able to live it in the real world the way that I am supposed to.

Sorry for being so direct.

Peace,
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No apology required. Your response is fair enough. Don’t go there if you feel it will jeapordize your faith. Your “Perhaps someday I will be in a place” I think is perfect.

The older I get the more I become open to not being stuck in my own box with my own presupposition. I was just suggesting. That’s all. Pax

-Tim-
 
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