Best News Segment on the Pandemic

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OraLabora said:
No it doesn’t. See my response to Josie. The fact that the virus can be asymptomatic or lead to only mild symptoms suggests the possibility that we don’t know the true patient zero. We only know the first confirmed patient, who may have picked up from someone without symptoms who had been to the wet market but remains unidentified.
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Yes it does, it points out of the 41 first known cases not all 41 came from people who had contact with the wet market, therefore opening up the possibility patient zero had no contact with the wet market and the original source was not the market. The point made was that we don’t know who patient zero is, and how they contacted the virus. It’s an unknown. What’s been ordered by the media however is this has come from the wet market. I’ve seen no proof of this. A lot is unknown, and or up for debate.
 
Much of what we read has ideological filters let’s not pretend some of us ARE ABOVE THAT.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
But there is no reason to add more such ideological filters than we absolutely have to.
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Especially the mouthpiece of the Falun Gong who have a very big axe to grind with China. That they do is understandable, but recognize that such a source is out to paint China in the worst possible light and is thus highly biased.
 
OraLabora said:
We have always known that. The virus was transmitted to humans via the wet market. How it got there, bats to pigs or to whatever, still needs to be determined.
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Zoonotic transmission of coronaviruses to humans is rare and especially at the spread we are seeing with this coronavirus. Ex: SARS, which spread much more slowly, and infected only 8k people.
 
This has been my rationale from the get go. I find it hard to believe dealing with the kind of players we have (China) and knowing the things they’ve done that some people want take at face value much of the Chinese data given to us.

Clearly, the origins of this disease are still unknown. I wonder if we will ever know as much of the data regarding the virus was destroyed.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
I and many others here reject citations that are just a video of someone talking. If you want to present the argument that you learned from such a video, present it yourself. I, for one, will not waste my time with videos.
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Then maybe you shouldn’t spend your time commenting on a thread about a video that you yourself say you will not watch???
 
I guess it’s tit for tat for much of our media is spreading Chinese propaganda!

The Chinese are also good at securing the “goodwill” of various international bodies and undermining the security of the whole world during a pandemic!

The Taiwanese government is now on the hit list of the W.H.O…

Surprise, surprise!
 
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Tit for tat is not how it is supposed to work. The objective is to find the truth, and I have much more hope in the ability of scientists to do that than a Falun Gong mouthpiece.
 
The W.H.O. was also supposed to be an international body of scientists/doctors who should have done their due diligence in protecting us from pestilence but instead they decided to side with China for political purposes!

They continue to do so now as the head of the W.H.O. is targeting Taiwanese officials for racism.

Funny, the timing of that when the Taiwanese were the ones to first INFORM the W.H.O. about an outbreak of a SARS LIKE ILLNESS that the W.H.O did not act upon because they believed the Chinese over Taiwan.
 
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But what’s so complex about stating that the original source of this virus could have infected the other 33% or part of the 33% that were not connected to the wet market?

If the disease is as highly infectious as you say it is, is it PLAUSIBLE TO ASSUME that NO ONE got infected while the virus was transported from it’s original source to the wet markets??

Why the heck wouldn’t it if it’s as highly infectious as you say???

It seems implausible to say it COULDN’T.
 
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By the way I don’t disagree with your premise I’m just very cynical about the politicization of everything including science, but that is not a rejection of science.

I just know that all things can be abused by man.

And with China I take nothing of what they say at face value.
 
Good read.

From the National Read article:

“ For what it’s worth, the “accidental release from a lab” scenario is apparently being contemplated by senior officials in the British government, and David Ignatius’ column in the Washington Post Friday suggested that either U.S. intelligence officials or unspecified “scientists” can’t rule out that scenario.

CNN recently spoke to some of the country’s top virologists and found there isn’t a clear consensus yet:
Rutgers University bioweapons expert Dr. Richard Ebright told CNN, “the possibility that the virus entered humans through a laboratory accident cannot and should not be dismissed… It is absolutely clear the market had no connection with the origin of the outbreak virus, and, instead, only was involved in amplification of an outbreak that had started elsewhere in Wuhan almost a full month earlier.”

“I think people went into the fish market who were already infected,” Vincent Racaniello, a microbiology professor at Columbia University, told CNN. “In bats, these viruses are intestinal viruses, and they are shedding the bat feces, which we call guano,” he said. “And if you go into a bat cave, it is littered with guano. And farmers in many countries harvest the guano to fertilize their fields.”

Dr. Simon Anthony, a professor at the public health grad school of Columbia University, told CNN, “Early in the outbreak … everyone was talking about the thing having emerged from the wet market. And now I think the data calls into question whether or not that’s really true.”
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Thanks. Jim Gerahty of National Review has more articles on the subject.
 
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Instead of reaching for trashy videos, read a scientific publication that explains that the virus had a natural origin. It was not engineered.
The scientists found that the RBD portion of the SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins had evolved to effectively target a molecular feature on the outside of human cells called ACE2, a receptor involved in regulating blood pressure. The SARS-CoV-2 spike protein was so effective at binding the human cells, in fact, that the scientists concluded it was the result of natural selection and not the product of genetic engineering.

This evidence for natural evolution was supported by data on SARS-CoV-2’s backbone – its overall molecular structure. If someone were seeking to engineer a new coronavirus as a pathogen, they would have constructed it from the backbone of a virus known to cause illness. But the scientists found that the SARS-CoV-2 backbone differed substantially from those of already known coronaviruses and mostly resembled related viruses found in bats and pangolins.

“These two features of the virus, the mutations in the RBD portion of the spike protein and its distinct backbone, rules out laboratory manipulation as a potential origin for SARS-CoV-2” said Andersen.
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The original source could have had two vectors: to the wet market, and say, to illicit and underground pangolin sales somewhere else (traffic in pangolins is punishable with prison in China, it’s a protected species). Or it could have been as suggested. Occam’s Razor suggest we start with the simplest first, which is what I did. Simplest and based on known facts about the virus.

Every one agrees that the wet market was a vector for transmission of a virus that seems to originate in bats.

These are the facts we have to work with. It’s a stretch go from there to “lab accident”. If someone proves it’s a lab accident, then so be it, but I am not going make that conclusion on what I’ve seen so far.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Instead of reaching for trashy videos, read a scientific publication that explains that the virus had a natural origin. It was not engineered.
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You must have missed the studies that show the virus strain’s unnatural genomic signals.


““In summary, somebody was entangled with the evolution of 2019-nCoV coronavirus. In addition to origins of natural recombination and intermediate host, the killer coronavirus probably originated from a laboratory in Wuhan.””

www.biorxiv.org

Computational analysis suggests putative intermediate animal hosts of the SARS-CoV-2

The recent emerged SARS-CoV-2 may first transmit to intermediate animal host from bats before the spread to humans. The receptor recognition of ACE2 protein by SARS-CoVs or bat-originated coronaviruses is one of the most important determinant factors for the cross-species transmission and...
www.biorxiv.org www.biorxiv.org

The natural origin has not been conclusively demonstrated.

It should be noted there are countless journalists to mindlessly regurgitating statements from the Chinese government and the WHO with no effort to fact-check whatsoever, as well as “scientists” whose real job is running PR for pharmaceutical and research companies who have spent weeks serving China by making extraordinarily misleading and overconfident statements to the public about the origins and capabilities of this virus. As far back as 2015, Chinese labs were reported to have been involved with dual-use gain-of-function research mixing and matching viral genomes in the lab. In 2018, the esteemed scientific journal Nature – which has published numerous articles speciously claiming this virus is definitely natural was revealed to have buckled to censorship demands from the Chinese government killing over 1,000 articles to placate their Chinese partners. China bought off the head of Harvard’s chemistry department, does one not think they could buy off run-of-the-mill research scientists scrambling for tenure and funding and publication?

www.insidehighered.com

Book publishers part ways with Springer Nature over concerns about censorship in China

Editors of book series stop publishing with Springer Nature to protest its acquiescence to Chinese government censorship demands.
www.insidehighered.com www.insidehighered.com

Analysis of the neutral sites also shows that pangolins were almost certainly not in play.

academic.oup.com

On the origin and continuing evolution of SARS-CoV-2

Abstract. The SARS-CoV-2 epidemic started in late December 2019 in Wuhan, China, and has since impacted a large portion of China and raised major global co
academic.oup.com academic.oup.com
 
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mrad25 said:
You must have missed the studies that show the virus strain’s unnatural genomic signals
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No, I saw it several days ago. I trust Scripts Research Institute over Botao Xiao’s headline with no paper, and uploaded by a right-wing financial blog.
 
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