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[dvdjs]

ROFL that you tout a footnote and ignore the advice given by the head of the WHO

There is no advice in the tweet. It is a statement of the status of current, preliminary status of the investigation. At what point do you think a a finding of human-to-human transmission should be made: before or after the facts are oin hand?

 

[dvdjs]

… you tout a footnote and ignore the advice given by the head of the WHO

There is no advice in the tweet. It is a statement of the current, preliminary status of the investigation.

At what point do you think a a finding of human-to-human transmission should be made: before or after the facts are in hand?

 

[Maximus1]

If I understand you, we determine the issue by other means or it is not a real issue that we can assert. Just be wary of in the future

 

[mrad25]

The issue if the content of what WHO received and tweeted. You misstate the information that was conveyed.

I said CCP the tweet said Chinese Authorities. Again, who do you think Chinese Authorities refer to?

• The information is not contradictory to the tweet.
• Can you supply documentation for this early December knowledge.

It’s not contradictory, this is only one example of human to human transmission among many that China was aware of before January 14th when the WHO tweeted what the CCP supplied them with. WHO updated their statement 5 days later, and deleted the tweet from January 14th.

Here’s the original documentation - http://wjw.wuhan.gov.cn/front/web/showDetail/2020011509040

"In this notice, it first admitted a “human to human transmission” case, saying that “Of the 41 cases diagnosed at present, one was found to be transmission between family members, the husband and wife. The husband had symptoms first, he worked at the South China seafood wholesale, the wife denied a history of exposure to the South China seafood wholesale market.”

Can you document this?

中共肺炎感染源不明 台湾提升旅游警示 | 人传人 | 台湾疾管署 | 大陆网民 | 大纪元

今天（1月16日）台湾两名防疫专家赴武汉访视后表示，中共肺炎会人传人，但感染源不明。台湾疾管署宣布，即日起提升武汉旅游疫情建议至二级警示。大陆网民认为中共公布的疫情情况不符合逻辑，还有网民嘲笑：“只出国不出省，是个爱国病毒。”

www.epochtimes.com

 

[dvdjs]

I said CCP the tweet said Chinese Authorities.

An I have said,multiple times that this is not my issue. The issue is the content of what was conveyed. The content is different that what you have stated it to be.

"In this notice, it first admitted a “human to human transmission” case, saying that “Of the 41 cases diagnosed at present, one was found to be transmission between family members, the husband and wife. The husband had symptoms first, he worked at the South China seafood wholesale, the wife denied a history of exposure to the South China seafood wholesale market.”

i am not sure what you are quoting. The links give this, using google translate of the article form Wuhan, from January 14, 2020.

3. As of now, have you found any cases of person-to-person transmission?

Existing findings indicate that there is no clear evidence of person-to-person transmission, and the possibility of limited person-to-person transmission cannot be ruled out, but the risk of continuing person-to-person transmission is low. At present, further research is being conducted in combination with clinical and epidemiological data.

4. Have you found any cases of family aggregation?

Among the 41 cases diagnosed so far, one was found to be family-aggregated, the couple had the onset, the husband had the first onset, and was an employee of the South China Seafood Wholesale Market. His wife denied any history of exposure to the South China Seafood Wholesale Market.
but that risk seems low

Is the case of infection belonging to a husband an wife demonstrate human-to-human transmission?
Does that single case among 41 suggest a high risk of person-to-person transmission?
Is that single case sufficient to conclude an announce human-to-human transmission?

Perhaps the appropriate statement would be: there is one case of two incidents of infections within a family,. Thus far its seems that the risk of human-to-human tranmission seems low, but cannot be ruled out. Further investigation of theis question are underway.

Which is what the announcement said.

 

[mrad25]

An I have said,multiple times that this is not my issue. The issue is the content of what was conveyed. The content is different that what you have stated it to be.

It’s not at all.

i am not sure what you are quoting. The links give this, using google translate of the article form Wuhan, from January 14, 2020.

I’m quoting the link from the Wuhan Health Commission posted.
“Of the 41 cases diagnosed at present, one was found to be transmission between family members, the husband and wife. The husband had symptoms first, he worked at the South China seafood wholesale, the wife denied a history of exposure to the South China seafood wholesale market.”

 

[mrad25]

Is that single case sufficient to conclude an announce human-to-human transmission?

Are these few cases and timeline sufficient to announce human to human transmission? Just a small sample.

The last few days in December, 3 different labs in China have all identified a SARS-like new virus, and reported this to both the hospitals and authorities. And one researcher warned that a “grave public health problem” was looming. We know of 7 other people who also gave similar warnings and was arrested by the CCP, their fate is still unknown. On Jan 7, Dr. Li Wenliang, who was the whistleblower of the disease, contracted the virus himself.

People of Hong Kong rushed to buy masks as cases in Hong Kong had increased to 30.

中共肺炎持续扩散 香港全城抢购口罩 | 武汉肺炎 | SARS | 感染 | 大纪元

湖北武汉不明肺炎持续扩散，香港疑似个案激增。港媒报导说，此疫情来势汹汹，引发市民恐慌，也掀起口罩抢购潮。

www.epochtimes.com

Jan. 2 was, while virtually nobody had known anything about the nature of this “pneumonia of unclear cause”, a military university in Wuhan, Naval University of Engineering issued a lockdown notice and started to strictly control the entry of any outsiders. Visitors needed special permission to get in and must take a temperature at the school gate. Anyone whose temperature was higher than 38 degrees was prohibited from entering. Please note this was 18 days before the CCP admitted that there was an epidemic and 21 days before the lockdown of Wuhan. Why did a military university take such a step at such an early stage? That is a question that needs to be asked.
http://web.archive.org/web/20200214...gov.cn/service/2008-06/02/content_4085910.htm

On this same day Jan. 2, the Wuhan Institute of Virology completely mapped the genome of the virus, but the announcement was withheld for an entire week, and the WIV was directed by the CCP forbidding anyone from disclosing epidemic related information including tests, lab data, results, and conclusions to any media outlets, including official media, or to partner institutions including technical service companies. Researchers were also banned from releasing information on social media platforms or to anyone who runs personal media platforms.

On Jan. 2 - Dr. Ai Fen of Wuhan Central Hospital, who gave out the information about “a contagious, SARS-like virus” in her department group chat, was given a talk by her supervisor, and encountered “unprecedented, very harsh” reprimand.

https://www.bannedbook.org/bnews/cbnews/20200311/1291982.html

Study published in The New England Journal of Medicine - 7 health care workers were infected between Jan 1-7 (See table 1), 8 were infected between Jan 12-22. The authors of this study are researchers from the China CDC. This means Chinese experts and researchers already knew at that stage that human-to-human transmission existed. Otherwise, health workers should not have been infected. No one warned the public.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2001316?articleTools=true

 

[mrad25]

On Jan. 3, China’s National Health Commission issued a national gag order , prohibiting any institutes from providing biological samples and related information to any other institutes or individuals.

In Depth: How Early Signs of a SARS-Like Virus Were Spotted, Spread, and Throttled - Caixin Global

In Depth: How Early Signs of a SARS-Like Virus Were Spotted, Spread, and Throttled - Caixin traces early efforts to identify the coronavirus, and health officials' efforts to control the spread of information

www.caixinglobal.com

On Jan. 4, the first expert group of China’s National Health and Medical Commission publicly stated that “at present, no obvious evidence of human-to-human transmission was found.”
Also on this day, Hong Kong activated its “serious response” level to the outbreak. While the CCP authorities continued to insist that the virus could not spread from one person to another, the head of the University of Hong Kong’s Centre for Infection, Ho Pak-leung, warned that “the city should implement the strictest possible monitoring system for a mystery new viral pneumonia that has infected dozens of people on the mainland, as it is highly possible that the illness is spreading from human to human.”
https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1500994-20200104.html

On Jan.5, Professor Zhang Yongzhen of the Shanghai Public Health Clinical Center also identified the new, SARS-like coronavirus through using high-throughput sequencing, and provided the genomic sequence of the virus to Shanghai Municipal Health Commission as well as China’s National Health Commission, warning the new virus was like SARS, and was being transmitted through the respiratory route. This sparked a secondary emergency response within the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on the following day.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-it-all-started-chinas-early-coronavirus-missteps-11583508932

Also on this day, WHO issued a statement saying that “On 31 December 2019, the WHO China Country Office was informed of cases of pneumonia of unknown etiology (unknown cause) detected in Wuhan City.”

Also on that day, Wuhan Municipal Health Commission stopped releasing daily updates on new cases of the disease.How It All Started: China’s Early Coronavirus Missteps - WSJ

While the WHO tweeted, in the meantime, Hubei Health Commission ordered to have three levels of Jinyintan Hospital in Wuhan converted into ICU wards, and medical staff from other hospitals were sent there to support.

https://web.archive.org/save/http://news.sina.com.cn/zx/2020-03-05/doc-iimxyqvz8110116.shtml

Dr. Zhang Dingyu director of Jinyintan Hospital, his hospital suddenly became the “eye of the storm”. The hospital was soon overwhelmed, every day it was as intense as in a war. All staff was exhausted with overwork. 50 junior health workers all quit their jobs in one day, as they were too scared. The hospital, therefore, lost half of its all junior health workers. 18 security guards the hospital hired temporarily also all quit in one day.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200407154233/https://www.sohu.com/na/380607708_100170731?scm=1002.45005a.15d015e01a3.PC_NEW_ARTICLE_REC&spm=smpc.content%2Fnew.fd-d.6.1586131200026oXoZw5N

 

[Theo520]

“Of the 41 cases diagnosed at present, one was found to be transmission between family members, the husband and wife. The husband had symptoms first, he worked at the South China seafood wholesale, the wife denied a history of exposure to the South China seafood wholesale market.”

And unless they all ate the same soup, the same day, you would still need to suspect person to person transmission, just in the seafood market.

So 41 patients in the ICU would have meant there were 350+ people on the outside running around, spreading the infection.

 

[dvdjs]

And unless they all ate the same soup, the same day, you would still need to suspect person to person transmission, just in the seafood market.

I am not sure what soup eating has to do with viral transmission, but one would still need to suspect person-to-person contact. And to continue to study the mode of transmission, just as was being done and communicated in Wuhan. It is easy to opine on social media, but Public Health announcements need to be informed by evidence.

 

[josie_L]

It defies logic to rule out the real possibility that a lab studying SARS COV viruses in Wuhan should just be at the epicentre of where all this started!!

 

[dvdjs]

It defies logic to rule out the real possibility that a lab studying SARS COV viruses in Wuhan should just be at the epicentre of where all this started!!

Not only does it defy logic, it defies reality. The lab is in Wuhan, where this pandemic started.

 

[josie_L]

Yes, I should have specified in my earlier post that it defies logic to deny the real possibility of a lab ACCIDENT, when there is a lab in Wuhan studying Sars viruses where the epidemic started.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[dvdjs]

Thanks for the correction.

I wasn’t correcting, but agreeing. That possibility cannot, by logic, be ruled out.

 

[josie_L]

I just wasn’t clear enough in my original statement and I realized that now after reading your post.

So thank you all the same.