Best verse defending Purgatory! Matthew 5:21-26

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Yes. I can read and determine when someone is objectively and demonstrably inconsistent with scripture. Does John himself and Paul himself and Moses provide for testing of doctrine by certain criteria?
 
So Isaiah was dead when he saw his temple vision?

Even your own apologists don’t claim that this verse teaches purgatory.

Going back to your previous question, yes, I judged that your misapplication of this verse is out of context because I have read Isaiah.
 
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Sean77 said:
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AugustTherese:
Purging of sin is not exclusive to being physically alive
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The doctrine of purgatory is though.
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Augustine said, in The City of God, that “temporary punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by others after death, by others both now and then; but all of them before that last and strictest judgment” (21:13). It is between the particular and general judgments, then, that the soul is purified of the remaining consequences of sin: “I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper” (Luke 12:59).
 
So you agree with Augustine on the doctrine of election and predestination?
 
So you agree with Augustine on the topic of predestination and election?
 
The concept of Purgatory used to be one of the things taught by the Church that I dismissed. I could not reconcile the concept of a loving and forgiving God with the infliction of pain and suffering as some sort of punishment for sin. Nor could I accept the concept of time spent in it such a place. God is time-less… past, present and future are all the same. When our bodies die our spiritual soul will live in that same state. Therefore there can be no “time” spent in Purgatory. Yet it is equally true that no impure soul can be one with He who is pure love. This is where forgiveness of sin becomes vital. But can we be forgiven for the harms that we deliberately caused even if we are totally unaware of them?

It is akin to the proverbial butterfly flapping its wings in China which leads to circumstances that cause an avalanche in the Rockies. We may be truly be sorry for the harm done to another as a result of our sin, but we can never see the echoing repercussions of our sin. Just as an extreme off the cuff example: We steal something at work. We soon feel very sorry for it, return the item, and go to Confession; case closed. However what we don’t see is that the boss thinks someone else stole the item and this was the last straw in his dealings with him and fires the man. As a result of being unemployed he loses his house and family. His son grows up with resentment of his father… etc., etc., etc. How can we truly feel sorry for all of these repercussions that we never even knew about?

I think the answer lies in the near-death experiences of people. I have heard three different things that people see. One is the “tunnel of light” and the being of intense pure light at its mouth welcoming you in to join your family and friends who await you on the other side. (I personally have had this vision but in my case the Being of pure light told me “It is not yet your time”.) The second is when people report that they saw their “whole life flash before their eyes.” And the third is when people report that they saw nothing but blackness. Are these experiences real? Are they visions of heaven, purgatory, and hell and what awaits us? Who is to say? But assume for a second that they are true.

I think those who experience “their whole life flashing before their eyes” are seeing the full result of all the hidden repercussions to their sin Perhaps we experience all the harm and angst our sins have caused. When I think of some of the things in my life and what may have conceivably happened as a result of my actions I experience a tremendous feeling of sorrow and guilt (okay, yes, Catholics love their guilt trips). It is only when ALL of the results of our sin are brought before God and we truly feel regret for them that we can be purified and walk with God.

I never used to fear dying because I leave all the judgement to God. But when I think that I may have to experience all of the damage my sins have done to others it gives me nothing but dread. But I know it would be something that I must endure.
 
Sean77 still engaging in fruitless pseudo-pugilism?

Look, God said from heaven, “This is is my Son, my beloved. Listen to Him.” Jesus said, “He who hears you hears Me”

Therefore, since we are commanded by God to listen to Jesus, and commanded by Jesus to listen to the Apostles, we cannot listen to you.

That’s what the bible says.
 
po18guy said:
Sean77 still engaging in fruitless pseudo-pugilism?
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Looks like Sean got suspended.

I hate when this happens. Sure he was getting a little arrogant but I don’t think he was over the top disrespectful.

Oh well I’ll have to say a prayer for him and hope he returns.

God Bless
 
I absolutely admire his faith and his zeal. I differ greatly on his theology. A little time out for reflection and pondering the words which he has read here (Please, God!) can do him a world of good - if his heart is open. And I pray that it is.
 
po18guy said:
I absolutely admire his faith and his zeal. I differ greatly on his theology. A little time out for reflection and pondering the words which he has read here (Please, God!) can do him a world of good - if his heart is open. And I pray that it is
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Don’t be surprised that he comes back converted like the Apostles Paul did on the road to Damascus.
 
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