Beth Moore Ministries?

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Chimakuni–I really do want to do that! Being too much of a perfectionist, I keep putting it off, wanting to get it exactly right. I need to let go and trust God.

Actually, I attending a Living Proof Live seminar, which was simulcast on a big screen at the Baptist church I had been attending…it was amazing. Anyway, afterward, I went online to Beth’s website where there were places for comments and did just that–wrote her my testimony.

It was very discouraging. Either that, or I’m paranoid! My comments were edited, although, as you know, I’m wordy, so they had to, I guess. And really, they didn’t edit out important things about me being Catholic…except…curiously, my testimony on the Eucharist was cut out…guess we could call that important, huh?:::sigh:::

And…two days later, my entire post was gone. I’m hoping this is just because there were so many responses they couldn’t keep them all beyond just a few days. But I wonder. So…I can’t seem to get through directly to Beth…she has her staff reading all this stuff. Even if I send a letter, I’m not sure it will get through. My only hope would be to write one and somehow manage to hand it to her. What I’m really hoping for is–I’m from Texas–maybe, just maybe, I’ll run across someone who knows her personally. My parents live in a small town near Austin with a large community of “born again” Christians. If I can hook up with someone there who knows my Dad and trusts me, maybe…

If Beth would read my testimony in connection with her study of Revelation, and then read Scott Hahn’s The Lamb’s Supper–wow! I know God has to give the grace to believe in the Real Presence, but still–all the elements would be there, and I know she’s open to the Lord’s leading and would study the Scripture thoroughly…

I’ve been told by another Catholic that maybe it’s not God’s will for Beth Moore to convert…I guess because she’s doing so much good where she is…and this person is very concerned about not offending her Protestant friends by throwing Catholicism in their face (who live in a very open-minded part of the country, not the Bible belt). But how can it not be God’s will???

Keep praying!
Love,
Donna
 
I apologize for not getting back to this thread that I started.

A few people seemed interested in what Ms. Moore said that I objected to.

Book of Deuteronomy. According to Ms. Moore, each of us is living in one of three “lands.”
  1. Egypt
    -not everything is blatently negative
    -we are enslaved and oppressed
    -we can hear God’s voice
    -a place know God’s discipline
    -we should leave with HASTE
  2. The Wilderness
    -easier to let God carry us than teach us how to walk with Him
    -easier to be sustained by God’s wonders than by His Word
    -easier to enjoy some of the blessing w/o becoming the blessing
    -we have a tendency to pick our own battles
    -fear to leave
    -unbelief keeps us there
  3. Canaan
    -place of spiritual maturity
    -victory
    -spiritual prosperity
    -inheritance
    -if you want to remain in Canaan, do not forget God, and praise Him
Afew of my objections:
  1. Ms. Moore spoke as though we have a “choice” which land to stay in. But in the Bible, it was the Lord who put the children of Israel into Egypt to SAVE THEIR LIVES from the famine and preserve the nation that would one day produce the Mother of God and His earthly father. If the children of Israel had tried to leave Egypt sooner than God wanted them, they would have been running ahead of His will. After they were enslaved, they cried out to him for almost 400 years before He sent Moses and Aaron to take them out of Egypt. He answered their prayer in His Own Perfect Time.
  2. It was the LORD who told them that they would remain in the wilderness until a generation had passed, and who determined when they would leave the wilderness; the people couldn’t just leave when they wanted to. Again, HE answers our prayers in His time, not ours.
  3. Ms Moore said that some people stay in the Wilderness ALL THEIR LIVES. She said it with horror in her voice. I’ve read about Catholic saints who have prayed to be unnoticed, unpreferred, unesteemed. If GOD tells a person that they will stay “in the wilderness” all their lives, it is GOD’S perogative, not my choice. I think the Catholic approach of allowing God to make us holy, instead of trying to rush ahead of Him, is a good approach that will keep us from trusting in our works to save us instead of God’s grace. I think that Ms. Moore’s approach could make a person discontent with their lot in life, and just plain despondent if their life is full of suffering. I think that the Catholic approach of offering up our suffering, sharing in the suffering of Christ, is much more Scriptural than Ms. Moore’s idea of getting out of the “wilderness” as soon as possible.
  4. Finally, Canaan is NO guarantee of maturity, etc. The children of Israel kept forgetting about God and running after idols while they lived in Canaan, but that didn’t put them back into the wilderness, as Ms. Moore suggests it will. I do agree that we should never forget about God and His Grace. I think the Catholic Sacraments help us to always keep God in our minds and hearts. I don’t know how Ms. Moore suggests we “never forget.”
This was the gist of it.

As for the hyper-ness, it bothered me, although to be fair, I think this is personal preference. I dislike having my emotions manipulated and find it akin to brainwashing. I actually left during the “Praise and Worship Time” and sat outside by myself to “deprogram.”

I think when someone uses brainwashing techniques such as loud music, lights, repetitive phrases and songs, standing for long periods of time (during the praise and worship singing), even with good intentions, we have to be extra cautious to keep our brains engaged, not get sucked into the emotional vortex, and start listening with our hearts only and not our heads. This is especially true for women.
 
Thanks for the insights, Cat. Since becoming Catholic last October, I’ve been fascinated by the concept of redemptive suffering. It’s not part of Protestant theology. I’ve found that uniting my sufferings with Christ on the cross is so healing…oddly, a little plug for Beth Moore here again .:)–in Beloved Disciple she creates a mental image of standing at the foot of the cross with the blood pouring on you. Right there–I think that’s what did it–something just broke inside me. From then on, it was a steady progression toward Rome for me. God’s grace was so active in my life for those several months. So…that was a foretaste of “redemptive suffering” and what it means…for me, anyway.

This is why I’d love to find a study group for these studies with Catholic women–we could work through the great Bible studies, and find any errors along the way. It would really be a way to learn to defend our faith, too. A woman in a parish who helped give a retreat for us took her study on David, “A Heart Like His” (either that one, or the one on the Hebrew tabernacle) and found it excellent.

Like I said, the first few minutes I didn’t like Beth’s personal style, but then I grew to love it. I think it’s because she’s honest and sincere. I agree that overemotionalism as a technique rings false–e.g., televangelists. But–I’ll just have to disagree with you here and leave it at that. I don’t find praise services manipulative, although I feel bad for you that you did. I think it all depends on the faith and sincerity involved. If you have a charlatan up there–yes, there’s potential for abuse. If you have someone who loves and serves the Lord, then no. Part of the problem is, I think, in us–we are often closed emotionally to the work of the Spirit, because we’ve been so hurt, maybe. I think being emotional is one of women’s great gifts; I’m not emotional enough, actually–when healing tears come, it’s not often enough. I have a lot of “stuff” inside from being raised in an alcoholic home, so I’m very guarded sometimes. Anyway–to me, it didn’t seem any more emotionally manipulative than the liturgy in the Mass, which is also done in a large group–with all the angels and saints, before the throne, and designed toward an emotional high point–the consecration–you know? We’re converted intellectually, spiritually, and emotionally, but conversion is primarily a matter of the heart. It’s not brainwashing if it’s truly the work of the Holy Spirit. I agree, though in that that can be a big “if”.
 
As usual, the Lord gently rebukes me when I’m being self-righteous…I do like the Living Proof praise services, but I had no right to make you feel bad, Cat. You were uncomfortable, and it is good to be cautious about emotionalism. I was reflecting on some of the emotions that came up for me in the recent parish retreat I made, and I’m still a little uncertain about whether certain practices designed to have us open up were good–I felt bad a number of times, and I’m still trying to sort out why–whether it was me, them, the Holy Spirit, or something good or something bad. So please forgive me for jumping in and just saying, hey emotions are good! I’m still a work in progress, so I need to listen more and talk less…

Oh–on an unrelated note–here I was getting all paranoid that they’d banned me from the board for talking too much–lol!–but what happened was–some other person on AOL was banned, and because of the way AOL is structured, the only way they could get rid of them was to ban a bunch of people that shared the same server. I thought I’d done something wrong! :::whew::::

In Him,
Donna
 
Lamb100,

Thanks for the thoughtful words. Don’t worry, I wasn’t in the least upset by any of your comments. On the contrary, I found your post thought-provoking.

I realize that my reaction to emotionalism is just my personal opinion, not a dogmatic proclamation of truth!

I think I will forever be turned off by “manufactured” emotionalism because over the years in Protestant churches, I have seen it used so often, and people affected strongly by it, but these same people are “back in the world” a few weeks later.

I realize that not everyone is like this and that for many, the emotionalism is a true reaction to the goodness of God.

I believe that emotion should be a by-product, not a goal, of worship and service.

I have been attending Mass regularly for three years, even though I just came into the Church this past April. Many times during Mass I have cried. In fact, my decision to join the Catholic Church was clinched during a very emotional Mass.

My husband and I always sat next to the same elderly couple (we still do). I was kneeling during the Communion, and feeling sad about my old church and the way we had been treated by those Christians.

Usually I always used to stand up and step out to the aisle to allow the Catholics to pass by me and go up for Communion. On this particular evening, as I started to stand up, the elderly woman put her arm around my shoulder and whispered, “You don’t have to stand up to let us by. We’ll go around.”

For some reason, that simple act of kindess moved me to tears. I cried hard for the rest of the Communion; I’m sure she thought she had offended me!

It wasn’t just the teaching and the history and the worship and the Eucharist, although those were definitely part of our decision (especially Eucharist). It was a loving act by a parishioner that made us decide to join the Church.

You mentioned finding a Catholic Bible study for women. A few questions. (BTW, if anyone else besides Lamb100 wants to jump in and comment on these questions, that would be great!)
  1. Could YOU lead such a study in your parish, using a Beth Moore book? I agree that she does have some good stuff to say, especially to women who have a hard time applying the Scripture to their own lives.
I would LOVE to be part of a women’s Bible study led by a godly Catholic woman! I’m sure other women would, too.
  1. Do you think such a Bible study, a Catholic women’s Bible study, would work online, in a Forum setting, or perhaps in a live chat once a week? Do you know of any such thing going on online now?
  2. Do you know of any Bible studies in book form specifically written for Catholic women?
I wish that I had a gift of writing Bible studies, but I don’t. Do you have this gift? Do you know of any Catholic women who do? (Surely God didn’t just give that gift to Beth Moore!) I know a woman in my church, a convert from Protestantism who currently works with the RCIA classes. She is a college professor and psychologist, extremely intelligent, and very loving and personable. I will ask her when she gets back from her summer trip sometime in August if she has ever considered writing up a Bible study for Catholic women to be used in a group setting.

I think it would be great if Catholic women could come forward with the same type of Bible study books that Beth Moore writes, but from a Catholic perspective.
 
My sense is that this is a curiously Protestant (evangelical, fundamentalist) phenomenon to have these women’s Bible study groups
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I think it would be great if Catholic women could come forward with the same type of Bible study books that Beth Moore writes, but from a Catholic perspective.
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I have just started doing a Bible study by Stacy Mitch called Courageous Virtue. It it a totally Catholic Bible Study and she has two others Courageous Love and Courageous Women. They are all geared to women and have individual and small group ‘instuctions’. I picked it up at a Catholic book store but it is available on-line from the publisher at www.emmausroad.org

I have been very impressed. I am doing this as an individual but am considering bringing this up at my parish for a group study.

I think I will start another thread to see what experiences others have had with the Courageus series or other women focused Catholic Bible study.
 
This is such a great thread! Thanks for bringing up that idea, Cat. (I can’t remember–how long have you been Catholic? What tradition did you convert from?) And I’ll have to check out that other series that was mentioned, too. Also, I think I heard www.womenofgrace.com is supposed to be coming out with some studies; I know things have been slow because I think they’re on a shoestring with staff and budget, and Johnette just lost her son and that set everyone back.

I have thought about leading a Beth Moore study in the parish–I have all these books (compulsive book buyer!)–so it would be easy to start one if the pastor approves. I’m seriously thinking about it–thanks! I don’t think I have enough Biblical knowledge, and especially, as a new convert–not enough knowledge of the Catholic faith-- to create a study–but you have planted some seeds…!

And I was talking offline to another person about the Beth Moore studies; was kind of thinking about suggesting an online study just among a few interested women. I know there are two going on right now through the “official” channel–ecumenical ones through www.lifeway.com. Believing God and the one on the Holy Spirit (can’t remember the exact name without consulting my book). The only problem is, the discussion board is dominated by evangelicals, and some of them are anti-Catholic, although Beth herself is not at all. Unfortunately, she is personally not involved in the discussion boards, as far as I know. Very depressing. However, I have seen some Catholic women who are hanging in there. Maybe one thing to do is e-mail them. I just have to make up my mind about actually getting down to it and actually doing a study rather than talking about it!

Great ideas–I noticed also there are Scripture studies through Catholic Scripture Study (I follow the link on www.scotthahn.com to get there). Not specifically for women, but they look great.

Love,
Donna
 
Hi again–I don’t get back here much–too many things online! Anyway–there’s another Catholic Bible study I found on www.getfed.com. It’s the Great Adventure series–a complete study of the Bible by Jeff Cavins. Mights be worth checking out.

I guess Catholics are getting with the program about Scripture study these days–with the Eucharist and Scripture, we’re an unstoppable force!

Blessings,

Donna
 
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maryscarter:
Always interested, post some of the things that disturb you about her teachings. However, you will nearly always find the protestant evangelists shallow in comparison to Catholic teachings because it is indeed incomplete and all the “pieces” do not fit. The more you know of your faith, the more clearly this becomes evident in what you hear and experience!

Catholic in Alabama Bible Belt
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Joyce Meyer seems to be one of those “Word of Faith”-“Prosperity Gospel” preachers - is the same true of Beth Moore ?​

One has to hope not 😦 - and, to judge from her website, not 🙂 ##
 
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Xenon-135:
My prayers go out to you, a Catholic in 'Bama. I never heard the word “Papist” until I watched the movie “Mississippi Burning”, but apparently in the South, thats the name for Catholics.

I suppose the word didn’t get to the majority of them that Constantine leaglized Christianity.

Take care, and keep up the faith Mary.
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Being from “God’s country”, (the South) Catholics are compared to JW’s and Mormons. It’s not pretty. The deeper south you go - the more abuse Catholics, JW’s and Mormons have to endure. Keep in mind that there literally is a baptist church (or some church) at every intersection in every rural town. By contrast, your lucky if you can find one Catholic church every 30 miles. I’m not proud of it - that’s just the way it is. I’m a baptized Protestant starting RCIA classes next month. I’m glad I moved to Iowa and was influenced by the Catholic Church here. I found my way home!
 
CD4 said:
<<<My sense is that this is a curiously Protestant (evangelical, fundamentalist) phenomenon to have these women’s Bible study groups>>>

**I think you are right about this. My husband’s church (CCM) has two or three "woman’s Bible Studies going on all the time. They seem to use Beth Moor and maybe Ann Graham Lotz (Billy Graham’s daughter), plus some other materiels. **

The interesting thing is that in this church woman teach only other woman…As far as I can see. It is men who are in charge of the adult Sunday School classes…Called Adult Bible Fellowships, or ABF’s. Curious…Women do children and other women, but not men and women together…
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CD4,
coming from my background in southern baptist fundamentalism, i can tell you that the general idea is that women are not to hold any teacher position over a man, only women and children. The men are generally in control of everything. Men lead men groups and women lead women groups. The same concept is found in the “Promise Keepers” meetings where thousands of men from different denominations come together to hear preaching and worship with songs. I went to one many years ago. It was pretty amazing. Anyway, not saying the men-men, women-women thing is the way it should be. There’s lots of traditional thinking and doing in the south. Alot of it I’m not proud of.
There’s another protestant women’s leader named Kay Arthur who has written many books and does Bible Study curriculum. You have to understand, everything is from Protestant point of view where Scripture is “King”, not structured Church teaching.
God bless.
 
hi at the moment iam taking one of beth moore bible study call breaking free. iam at the only catholic there between baptist and protestant. it hasn’t been easy thank god i found catholic answer. you can not believe how i was attack the first weeks. but after i gave some copies about sola scriptura to the moderator things quite down a bit. still there is always one she already gave me a king james bible an cordially invite me to her church, the bible i accept out of respect the invitation i declined. about beth moore some of her topics are find but other have some anticatholicism in then. specially the topics about idolatry. also i don’t like the way they talk about satan. for some of this baptist everything is moved by evil. iam still in week 6 so i will let you know how things are. next bible study i hope to do it with catholics although is so hard down here in texas. st francis prayer: lord make me an instrument of your peace
 
We have a pretty large congregation at our parish (St. Vincent De Paul - Fort Wayne, Indiana) and the Small Christian Community movement has been a big part of the development of our parish. A while back (predating me moving out here four years ago). One of these Small Christain Communites actually started focusing on a women-themed Bible study and now goes by it’s own title: WINGS (Women IN God’s Service). It’s been so popular there’s WINGS TOO and M.O.M.S. (Ministry of Moms Sharing). They’re also trying to orgnaize an evening version of WINGS.

Also, just to add on to what you said about the Christ Renews His Parish process… it is truly an excellent program and does amazing things to the men that have been through formation with me. Our team is putting on a weekend in September and we’re all real excited about it! 🙂

Your Brother in Christ,
Derek
 
Derek–so great to hear from a man about Christ Renews His Parish! I’m on the first team for our church, and we’re in formation now to put on the next retreat. Everyone does talk about what a change it’s made in the men! I love how CRHP recognizes the serious need for all Christians to know Scripture and to have a commitment to Christ. Please pray for us. Our parish has been torn apart by factions and turmoil in the last decade, and has lost a number of priests because of it. Hence, the new priest’s high hopes for CRHP.

(My e-mail’s Luvadoxi@aol.com, in case someone wants to write and I don’t get back to these boards…)

About an early question re Beth Moore—I don’t believe she’s a “prosperity gospel” person. In the Baptist church women’s ministry I attended before converting to the Catholic faith, the prosperity gospel was thankfully much disparaged. Beth has been through so much suffering and abuse in her own life that she’s a truly humble person–very thankful to God for rescuing her from the pit.

You know what, though–I can’t take another Beth Moore course in an evangelical church. I’ll have to do them on my own. Anti-Catholic comments pop up all the time. The people who make them, for the most part, truly “know not what they do” and believe we are another cult like JWs and Mormons. But–they also think anyone who hasn’t made a personal decision for Christ isn’t really a Christian. For awhile–my conversion took me from mainline Presbyterian and ELCA (liberal) Lutheran to Baptist to Catholic–for awhile, I could see their point. The mainline churches are spiritually lukewarm and have fallen into outright heresy compared to the way they were when I was a child. Also, everyone eventually needs to commit to Christ–we can’t just coast by on our baptismal grace and expect to inherit the Kingdom. But still–I’m so, so weary of anti-Catholic comments. Why can’t they just accept us as Christians, accept we don’t agree on all things just like different Protestants don’t agree–and move on for the Lord?

Mayra–I think you’re so brave for sticking up for your faith and sticking it out with the Baptists!

I don’t think, per se, there’s anything wrong with same-sex Bible studies–we kind of need them. I think but am not 100 percent sure, that Beth Moore teaches not only just women, but both women and men in her home church in Houston–could be wrong about this. She does agree in having a man over her in teaching authority, but before we jump on this, recall that our own church believes in male leadership, too. In the best of evangelical churches, I think that’s the sense it’s meant–as in 1 (or is it 2?) Corinthians where it lays out the 3 offices of elder (bishop), presbyter (priest) and deacon. This was a hard one for this independent, feminist “I do it my way” girl to accept on the road to Rome! But deep down, I always knew it was right.

Just a few of my random thoughts…!
Love,
Donna
 
some of the parts i been doing this week, this been week 7 and 8 is hasn’t been so bad, lamb if you have the book check it out an let me know what you think. i think that was is lacking is maybe the importance of the body of christ, but been a baptist i can understand. any way i found out scott hann website and i love it i will be doing some of his bible studies maybe lamb you can recomend me one. any way i went back to mass 👍 and i feel so good.jesus is love
 
Praise God, Mayra! Don’t you feel better? 🙂

I’m all talk and no action–haven’t actually started a Catholic Scripture Study/Scott Hahn study–I just purchase them and think about it alot–like a kid in a candy store, I have trouble actually getting started–but when I do I’ll try & let you know what I think.

I love Scott Hahn! He and Patrick Madrid (Surprised by Truth) played a huge part in my conversion. Mayra–read The Lamb’s Supper by Scott Hahn–it’s all about Eucharist. I can’t read enough about the Eucharist. There’s also a website devoted to perpetual adoration which I love–Missionaries for the Blessed Sacrament–sorry I don’t remember the link–put it in your browser and let me know if you can’t find it. Another great one is (is it ok to post links here? I won’t put the dot, just in case) real presenceDOTorg. Also savior DOTorg has a live picture of the Blessed Sacrament.

His Peace,
Donna
 
lamb 100 this week i will be starting a scott hann bible study. i will be doing the beginner one an all are online. mr copland is going to be joining me so you are more than welcome. i might be doing one lesson at the time per week. my son is starting headstart so i have daytime off in between training my dogs so i can do it. i will be finishing beth moore bible studies on my own an on tuesday i will meet with the moderator to discuss answers. she an one more didn’t like my decision, they thought i broke a commitment:eek: but lamb things happen i couldn’t meet with them on wednesday anymore because my son is starting on school an he needs to go to bed early, an dog training is on the same day. anyway i apologized but they wasn’t happy, well at least i will finish it.:yup: went to mass again i feel:bounce:. take care and god bless:wave:
 
A dear friend, actually a member of my small faith community, speaks highly of Breaking Free, which she attended with the women of a Mennonite congregation who have been extremely supportive of her family in a time of trial. She is aware, however, and has discussed with me areas where there was divergence with Catholic thought. She and I both miss our small faith sharing community which we belonged to for 9 years, outgrowth of Christ Renews His Parish. I urge any group of women to form (with your pastor’s approval) a group to meet weekly, read and pray with Sunday scripture readings, there are several valid Catholic resources for this.
 
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Lamb100:
Hi–I do have to say I love Beth Moore. I agree with Petra on the importance of learning the Bible–St. Jerome said, “Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ.” I’m a new convert, from the Presbyterian Church USA (mainline), but studied with a Baptist women’s ministry for a couple of years. I have an amazing story, really, of how God led me to the Catholic Faith, and to the Eucharist (which I’d never heard of before, outside of just generally thinking you all had pretty much the same thing we had in the Lord’s Supper, more or less).

–Donna
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It’s important to remember that the Protestant Bible is incomplete.
The primary difference between the Catholic Bible and the Protestant Bible is to be found in the Old Testament. There are seven books found in the Catholic Old Testament that are not part of the Protestant Old Testament. They are: TOBIT, JUDITH, 1ST BOOK OF MACCABEES, 2ND BOOK OF MACCABEES, THE BOOK OF WISDOM, ECCLESIASTICUS, THE BOOK OF BARUCH and additional parts of THE BOOK OF DANIEL, and additional parts of the BOOK OF ESTHER.
 
I know–it’s so unfair we didn’t have Wisdom and some of those other marvelous books that are like Proverbs! What really upsets me is how the Reformers over time deliberately concealed facts from posterity. Like, how could I reach 50 years of age and never know about the Real Presence?? Never heard of Christ in the tabernacle, in the church. Everything in history and literary references to the Church–makes sense now!

At least they didn’t mess with the New Testament, thank God!

Mayra–I may go online and start that study–will let you know! You are doing just fine–they’re trying to make you feel guilty–I’m sure they think it’s because of your faith that you’re quitting, but you know it isn’t, and even if it is in part, so what? Your commitment is to Christ, and His Truth–it may help to tell yourself that if you, like me, tend to let others make me feel guilty easily!
 
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