Bible contradiction- need help

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juliamajor said:
No authors were put on the Gospels they were all anonymous.Via the ECF we have tradition of who wrote what.But not every ECF agrees with the other-it was never unanimous.The scholarly breakdown is very simple-they don’t know who wrote the Gospels but it was more then likely some one who ,if they did not know Jesus personally they knew the apostles personally.Mark was believed to be John Mark who was an aide both to Paul and Peter.John mark worked for Peter and probably got the Story of Jesus directly from the apostles mouth.Many believe that is why, as a whole, Peter and the apostles look so thick headed and peter comes off looking badly.There are questions about some of the letters who wrote them but if you look back there were always questions about certain books of the NT.Some which almost didn’t make the 'canon cut" .

NT canonicity is based on 4 criteria.Four Criteria for Canonicity (why certain books were eventually accepted into the NT Canon, while others were rejected):

Apostolic Origin - attributed to and/or based on the preaching/teaching of the first-generation apostles (or their closest companions).
Universal Acceptance - acknowledged by all major Christian communities in the Mediterranean world (by the end of the fourth century).
Liturgical Use - read publicly along with the OT when early Christians gathered for the Lord’s Supper (their weekly worship services).
Consistent Message - containing theological ideas compatible with other accepted Christian writings (incl. the divinity and humanity Jesus).
Four-Fold Role of the Evangelists as Authors
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For cryin out loud girl can’t ya read? Not one of you has made a compelling argument for the NT Gospel writers being those who knew and walked with Jesus. HOWEVER a good friend of mine HAS and was humble enough not to come forward on the forum. It WOULD take a chum o’ mine to present a good counter argument, go figure. If anyone would like to hear it let me know.
 
VerumAdInfernos said:
For cryin out loud girl can’t ya read? Not one of you has made a compelling argument for the NT Gospel writers being those who knew and walked with Jesus. HOWEVER a good friend of mine HAS and was humble enough not to come forward on the forum. It WOULD take a chum o’ mine to present a good counter argument, go figure. If anyone would like to hear it let me know.
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As soon as you handle answering another assertion you made. Or, maybe your friend can handle that one also?
On post 55 you told juliamajor she was some kind of beacon of light, now this today. From the very same post???

What is going on here?
 
StrawberryJam said:
As soon as you handle answering another assertion you made. Or, maybe your friend can handle that one also?
On post 55 you told juliamajor she was some kind of beacon of light, now this today. From the very same post???

What is going on here?
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I already cited the St. Joseph edition Biblical scholars, again you ARE not reading the thread, and then Julia posted yet another scholarly answer, maybe it’s because it’s late that you just aren’t reading right. And I meant every word of it. What I said was a good friend of mine made a good counter argument, is there something wrong with that? Doesn’t mean we agree, do not put words in peoples mouths dear, it’s rude.
 
I would like to refer everyone back to pages 2, 3, and 4 for a reference on how to refute Dispensationalist Heresy.
 
Since it embarrasses you I’ll remove it, but it is your prerogative to report, go for it. I just stated my honest beliefs about your religious affiliation.
 
VerumAdInfernos said:
The following is a PM exchange between Jam and I, ::sigh:: Oh the ridiculosity! Looky I made up a word!

You are not reading the thread I quoted Catholic Biblical Scholars, I am not your google, or your library pick up a NAB St. Joseph edition Bible then follow their source lead, how much schooling have you had? Have you ever had to write a critical research paper?, and why do you care you are Agnostic, a ridiculous state of spiritual immaturity.
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Sharing PM exchanges is a breach of forum rules, on top of the fact that you did not post the PM’s in context. Or with my permission.

I am alerting the moderation staff, of this and your verbal insults to me on PM.
 
Luke_K said:
2 Kings 2: 11,1 Maccabees 2:58, VERSUS John 3:13
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I will not put forward the following as a claim, but I will assert the following: Elijah went up–into heaven, yes. What at the time, was heaven: the sky. Jesus was in Heaven. Where God is a resident as a person, of the Trinity. Jesus came down from heaven. He was conceived in the womb, as we are conceived in the womb, by The Holy Spirit, the Holy Ghost. Nonetheless, the mystery of the matter, where Jesus is concerned: He was in the beginning. We, apparently, by-and-large, were conceived in the womb–we did not know God in the beginning, but this is further confounded by the Seraphim, or those heroes of old, who came down from heaven, and took for themselves, human wives, because somewhere in the heavens, they saw: human women are, really, quite beautiful, and if you don’t agree with that part of scripture, why in the Hell did you allow yourself to get so burned by one? Anyway. There’s those smarter-than-me people, who put forward, that Heaven as a place for the saved, to reside, came into existence with Jesus’ death. In other words, yes, Elijah went up into the heavens in a chariot; however, he and his soul took up residence in Sheol, Oblivion, and awaited the coming of their Lord, Master, Savior, Messiah: whom, upon his death, descended into Hell, and said, to those of you whom my Father has appointed as my own–you come with me, to where my Father in Heaven, is a resident. Therefore, Jesus was in Heaven, with the Father, and The Holy Spirit, and in some sense, they came to earth, together, and upon Jesus’ death: the just were released to Heaven, or saved.
 
kfinstad said:
I will not put forward the following as a claim, but I will assert the following: Elijah went up–into heaven, yes. What at the time, was heaven: the sky. Jesus was in Heaven. Where God is a resident as a person, of the Trinity. Jesus came down from heaven. He was conceived in the womb, as we are conceived in the womb, by The Holy Spirit, the Holy Ghost. Nonetheless, the mystery of the matter, where Jesus is concerned: He was in the beginning. We, apparently, by-and-large, were conceived in the womb–we did not know God in the beginning, but this is further confounded by the Seraphim, or those heroes of old, who came down from heaven, and took for themselves, human wives, because somewhere in the heavens, they saw: human women are, really, quite beautiful, and if you don’t agree with that part of scripture, why in the Hell did you allow yourself to get so burned by one? Anyway. There’s those smarter-than-me people, who put forward, that Heaven as a place for the saved, to reside, came into existence with Jesus’ death. In other words, yes, Elijah went up into the heavens in a chariot; however, he and his soul took up residence in Sheol, Oblivion, and awaited the coming of their Lord, Master, Savior, Messiah: whom, upon his death, descended into Hell, and said, to those of you whom my Father has appointed as my own–you come with me, to where my Father in Heaven, is a resident. Therefore, Jesus was in Heaven, with the Father, and The Holy Spirit, and in some sense, they came to earth, together, and upon Jesus’ death: the just were released to Heaven, or saved.
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Due respect, question was answered did you read the entire thread?
 
StrawberryJam said:
Sharing PM exchanges is a breach of forum rules, on top of the fact that you did not post the PM’s in context. Or with my permission.

I am alerting the moderation staff, of this and your verbal insults to me on PM.
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Permission was perceived as implied because it related to the thread you said where? So I merely referenced the two. Also it was posted in context, and there was no verbal insult, only what you perceived as condescension, for that I apologized but stand by what I said of Agnosticism being “spiritually immature”.
 
VerumAdInfernos said:
Due respect, question was answered did you read the entire thread?
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No. Not always physically capable of such a feat, thank you for the respect, and the information: I hope, that my answer was found at least in part, synonymous with the previous answer. I am grateful to you.
 
Please return to the topic at hand. Stop discussing each other or I will have to close the thread. Thanks.
 
NHInsider said:
Might as well, since if your false doctrine were true, it wouldn’t matter what the rest of us believe or do - if we’re not predestined for salvation we’re damned anyway. If we are predestined then we’ll be saved. Why bother trying to convince us?

Thanks be to God for the free gift of grace and the opportunity to embrace it.
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Arguing Christians!!!

Amen Brother to the gree gift of grace and the opportunity to embrace it. My Father was raised as a Free Will Baptist who was taught predistination (one way) and believed that it didn’t matter either way, it was already decided for him. I believe in predisticantion in another way. We are all predestined to be God’s children, which is God’s desire, but He gave us free will or He would not be God if he forced us to follow Him.

I am a converted Protestant and say that Catholics and Protestants have something to offer to those longing to see Jesus. We all are…aren’t we? I think one of the many reasons I was able to convert was because of a very patient friend who never critisized me for my beliefs. Sugar attracts more flies than vinegar. Both groups certainly should be able to find it in your hearts to speak to each other with respect and love as children of God.

I hope you will take this the way I mean it, with love for you as children of God therefore brothers in God.

God Bless you both

Cora:gopray:
 
The thread should be closed because the question was answered and NO ONE is reading the thread! Cora who is arguing? A Protestant made a claim, was refuted, realized after reading it how wrong he was and simply had absolutely nothing to rebuttal with., that was a simple case of Apologetics 101. There is no contradiction in the verses Luke’s question was answered pages ago, and CORRECTLY BY A CATHOLIC, like it should have been.
 
Luke_K said:
2 Kings 2: 11

1 Maccabees 2:58

VERSUS

John 3:13
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No contradiction at all. First of all which heaven does each of the verses relate to. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 12:2:

“I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven–whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows.”

He says the third heaven meaning there are at least two others. One is the atmosphere or the sky. The second is commonly thought of today as outer space but this concept was not known in Paul’s time and there the second heaven was the place of "Abraham’s bosum or the abode of the dead as they waited for their redemption. So Enoch could be in the second heaven.

The other possibility is that John is referring to an activity that one does under their own power. No one ascends to heaven except by the power of God. Even Mary did not ASCEND to heaven but was ASSUMED by the power of God. So what on the surface appears to be a contradiction is, in fact, no contradiction.
 
Danno2281 said:
From the Catholic Encyclopedia:"The essence of this heretical Predestinarianism may be expressed in these two fundamental propositions which bear to each other the relation of cause and effect:

•the absolute will of God as the sole cause of the salvation or damnation of the individual, without regard to his merits or demerits;
•as to the elect, it denies the freedom of the will under the influence of efficacious grace while it puts the reprobate under the necessity of committing sin in consequence of the absence of grace."
We freely agree on predestination, but you neglect the essential consideration of man’s free co-operation with redeeming grace; that is predestinarianism. When drawn out to its logical conclusion, it would turn God into a monster Who gave grace to some and refused it to others effectively condemning them. God desires that all men be saved (1Tim.2:3-4).
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Amen…Cora:blessyou:
 
coracobb said:
Amen…Cora:blessyou:
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??? The claims were refuted using Church teaching and an explanation of history, as was the rapture! So why does that dinky little explanation get your kudos, but not the in depth history and Church canon that was used to refute it in the first place, just strikes me as funny, maybe no one is reading the whole thread ::Eye roll::
 
Cora you are not reading all of EnterCanaan’s posts, he is a protestant who is a Dispensationalist, the very Catholic Encyclopedia verse Danno quoted STATES that he accepts a Heretical Protestant doctrine, are you reading that right??? Jeez…please for the last time read the thread, I beg the mods to close it already because either people have serious reading comprehension issues or are just NOT reading everything, it’s worthless.
 
Rule1:Compare Scripture to Scripture.
Is 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little.
Is 28:13 But the word of the Lord was to them, “Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little there a little,” That they
might go and fall backward, and be broken and snared and caught.
1 Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

A precept is a law. The bible is Gods law book. Furthurmore, in each verse, the teaching is reapeated. line upon line. repeated. precept upon precept, repeated. spiritual things with spiritual things, repeated. Thus rule 3. IT IS ESTABLISHED. so that means DO IT. FOLLOW THE RULES, OBEY THE LAW, COMPARE!!!
Code: 
Rule2:The Word is given as parables.
Ps 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable; I will utter dark sayings of old.
Matt 13:34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them,
Matt 13:35 that is might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying:
“I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.”
Mark 5:33 And with many such parables He spoke the word to them as they were able to hear it.
Mark 5:34 But without a parable He did not speak to them. And when they were alone, He explained all things to His disciples.
Luke 12:41 Then Peter said to Him, “Lord do you speak this parable only to us, or to all people?”

Do you think only the red words in the Gospels are the words of Christ. NOOO> the whole bible, is the word of God, in which Christ is that same word made flesh. Furthermore, the bible, which is Gods word, was spoken by GOD, communicated by the HOLY SPIRIT, to holy men and prophets of old. GODS WORD… and GODS word is a parable. for our earthly ears to comprehend.
Code: 
Rule3:When God repeates Himself, the thing is establsihed.
Gen 41:32 And the dream was repeated to Pharaoh twice because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.

You use the bible to define the bible and the doctrine therein.
  1. The bible is spoken as a parable. I provided the scripture, read it, it says the WORD is spoken as a parable. A parable is an earthly story with a spiritual meaning. The earthly story is the actual bible. The account written therein are true and literal stories that happened here on planet earth. The spiritual meaning always points to Christ as the Saviour. That is plain as day, no need to complicate what it is.
  2. We are all born of original sin. This means we are born doomed for hell. There is no degree of sin. Even the smallest sin will forfiet your salvation and doom you to hell. That is what the LAW of God is. The bible is Gods Law book. and the LAW condemns those who break it to hell. TO spiritual death. The law was not written for the righteous, but for the sinner to obey. And sense we are all sinners, born into sin, we are all bound by the LAW establsihed by GOD and under its judgement.
 
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