Bible, Quran – Beauties Beyond Comparison?

[Jay53]

**Jay53 has done his/her full effort to dispute the miracles of Quran. Jay tried to prove that sperm was well known at the time of bibleOT. But Jay did it with only one passing remark.

Then, obviously, “one passing remark” is not my “full effort”. And, in fact, the information is Denis Giron’s effort/work - which was evident if you looked at the link I posted. Elwill asked for one scientific error in the Quran and I posted one which was available from the website linked at the bottom of my post. No more, no less. **

Then Jay went on to ridicule the teachings of the Quran from various angles. that Romans and Greeks also knew many such things before Muhammad. We see that Jesus was much closer to the Romans and the Greeks. We do not see any sensible word from jesus on those lines/ subjects. Why is that?

What ridicule? What are you talking about? :hypno:

i may point out to christian friends that the quran is not really emphasising how a child is born. It is not describing anatomy only. It describes how apparantly a sperm is put in the womb and the development starts (i.e. physical development). But that is not the end. Life it put into that object and it becomes quite a different thing. It becomes a different creation.

The words are there, at end of verse. Please see the whole verse and emphasis is at end of the verse. I wil soon present the concerned verses.

Please reread the last paragraph of my post where the author of that piece points out the error in the Quran. You obviously didn’t understand it the first time.

 

[elwill]

The Qur’an on Embryology
In 1982 Keith Moore, an anatomy professor at the University of Toronto, produced a textbook titled “The Developing Human, 3rd edition”. In this book Moore states his astonishment at the way embryonic development is depicted in the Qur’an. Moore would go on to produce fourth and fifth editions of his textbook, as well as another book titled “Human Development as described in the Quran and Sunnah”, all of which many Muslims cite with great pleasure. Moore and his Muslim supporters are referring to the following verse:

We placed him as sperm in a place of rest, firmly fixed; Then We made the sperm into a clot of blood; then of that blood clot We made a lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be God, the best to create! (Quran 23:13-14)

Indeed, at first glance, this seems like a remarkable statement for a “7th century desert Arab” to make. However, upon closer study, one realizes that there is both explanation and error to this verse. First we must ask if this was an original theory, and second we must ask if it is correct.

untill this point you didn’t claim any errors , so i will focus my responds to the absolute errors you suggest , are you cool with that !

Many people are amazed by the mention of sperm in this verse. This is nothing special. Since the beginning of time man has been aware of the “seed” that is released from the penis during sexual intercourse. The Bible, a text much older than the Qur’an, tells a story of a man who was struck down by God for “spilling his seed on the ground” (Genesis 38:9-10).

The entire study of human life as mentioned in the Qur’an is not original at all. While Muslims try to claim that Muhammad made these statements before scientists discovered them, they are wrong. Theories of the formation of a child inside the womb was put forth by Aristotle nearly 1,000 years before the Qur’an was written. In fact Aristotle correctly described the function of the umbilical cord, something not mentioned in the Qur’an, showing that earlier philosophers were aware of such things mentioned by Muhammad and more. Every mention of human development in the Qur’an is similar to Roman and Greek theories. Consider the following verse referring to sperm:
He is created from a drop (of sperm) emitted-- Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs. (Qur’an 86:6-7)

I agree absolutely that, the Quranic description of procreation from a drop of fluid is something that is clearly observable to human beings and has been known to mankind throughout history.

However that does not mean to say, that the Quran has not provided any new information on embryology or referred to any facts that would have been beyond human observation. As for the meaning of the word ‘nutfah’, the word simply means ‘drop’ or ‘small dribbling quantity of liquid’. In verses where ejaculation is clearly referred to i.e. ‘nutfah gushing forth’ it clearly does refer to sperm. However that does not exclude the possibility that it might have another meaning in verses where ejaculation is not discussed.

Clearly this verse is incorrect, and clearly it has origins in earlier theories. First of all, for sperm to originate between the back and the ribs would mean that it comes from the kidneys! We now know that semen is produced in the testicles, but people in Muhammad’s time did not know this. Eleven centuries before Muhammad, the Greek physician Hippocrates theorized that sperm passed through the kidneys into the penis. For centuries this was an accepted (and incorrect) belief of the origins of sperm.

Verses 86:5-7 do not mention ‘kidney’. Nor does any other verse! No such word in the Quran.
The Quran simply states that man is created from the ejaculated fluid, which is emitted from within the abdomen. (From “between the ribcage and the spine”)
No mention of ‘semen production’ or ‘kidneys’

by the way , Semen DOES NOT COME from the testicles, period! It is neither produced in the testicles, nor does it come from the testicles during the time of coitus!

And that is a scientific fact! Thirteen centuries ago even the scientific community thought that semen is produced in the testicles.

The semen contains many things. Between 95 to 98% of it consists of fructose, prostaglandin hormones, metal and salt ions, lipids, steroid hormones, enzymes, basic amines, and amino acids. All those are produced from the glands located in abdomen. Between 2 to 5% of it consists of the sperms produced in the testicles.

There are those who claim Muhammad had no contact with Greeks or Romans. Pre-Islamic Arabia definitely had contact with Byzantium, Syria, Egypt, Persia, and Babylon. There were many Jews and Christians living in the area, and they were familiar with Greek or Roman philosophy. The Christians were connected to Rome. The Jews were connected to Babylon and Persia. It is easy to see how such theories regarding embryonic development may have reached Muhammad.

so you suggest that mohammed (pbuh) was interested with science !!
well , let me say that quran didn’t use the scientific facts which proofed lately that it’s wrong , let us say that he used only the corrects one , i think that this assumption will make you focus on errors in quran , not on the source of information

Finally, to touch back on the verses that spoke of the development of an unborn child, I will say they too are incorrect. The Qur’an stated that the blood clot was turned to bone and then God “clothed the bones with flesh” (Quran 23:13-14). It is scientific fact that living tissue forms first, and then bones grow at a later time, and continue to gain strength (by building calcium) for many years after birth. Therefore, this is one of many scientific inaccuracies in the Qur’an. infidels.org/library/modern/denis_giron/islamsci.html

Until very recently, embryologists assumed that the bones and muscles in an embryo developed at the same time. For this reason, for a long time, some people claimed that these verses conflicted with science. Yet, advanced microscopic research conducted by virtue of new technological developments has revealed that the revelation of the Quran is word for word correct. These observations at the microscopic level showed that the development inside the mother’s womb takes place in just the way it is described in the verses. First, the cartilage tissue of the embryo ossifies. Then muscular cells that are selected from amongst the tissue around the bones come together and wrap around the bones.

 

[Jay53]

Verses 86:5-7 do not mention ‘kidney’. Nor does any other verse! No such word in the Quran.
The Quran simply states that man is created from the ejaculated fluid, which is emitted from within the abdomen. (From “between the ribcage and the spine”)
No mention of ‘semen production’ or ‘kidneys’

I’m not sure what anatomy you’re dealing with, but my abdomen is not between my ribcage and my spine - that would be the thorax. Maybe men are different?

by the way , Semen DOES NOT COME from the testicles, period! It is neither produced in the testicles, nor does it come from the testicles during the time of coitus!

But sperm is produced in the testicles which is certainly necessary for reproduction. No sperm - no reproduction!

 

[jblake]

planten;:

What is troubling you?

I don’t have an issue with them, because they serve to prove beyond any shadow of doubt that both the q’ran and islam, by their own criteria, are testimonies for false deities, pursuing false religions.

jonathon

 

[elwill]

I’m not sure what anatomy you’re dealing with, but my abdomen is not between my ribcage and my spine - that would be the thorax. Maybe men are different?

The exact Arabic words: Bain usSulbe watTaraib
Sulb = backbone, loin, lower back;
Taraib = ribs, breastbone, chest.
Bain = between, among, amidst

It is a phrase in Arabic that is similar to the English phrase, “somewhere between the front and the back”

It would mean that the semen springs from “somewhere between the front and the back” of the body. In other words, somewhere from inside the body!

If one was to insist upon the literal meaning, one would still find that the Quran is 100% correct literally, too. The seminal vesicles are anterior to the sacrum and coccyx (lower back, loin) and the ribs are anterior to the seminal vesicles.

If one was to draw a line from the tip of the coccyx, to the upper portion of the seminal vesicle _ either one of the two_ and extend the line forward it will catch the ribcage.

The seminal vesicles from which the semen spurts out during coitus, lies between the ribs and the coccyx!

by the way , Semen DOES NOT COME from the testicles, period! It is neither produced in the testicles, nor does it come from the testicles during the time of coitus!

But sperm is produced in the testicles which is certainly necessary for reproduction. No sperm - no reproduction!

In fact, if the Quran had said that the semen is produced in the abdomen, (“between the ribcage and the spine”), and not the testicles, it would still be accurate. At least 95 to 98% accurate! Only 2-5% of the semen is contributed by the testicles. The rest is produced in the glands located in the pelvic cavity.

anyway , the Quran does not say where the semen is produced, because the Quran is not 98% accurate. It is 100% ACCURATE!

What does the Quran really say?

Question: What is it that man is created from? Answer:
(He is) created from the surging fluid! 87:6

Famous translators have rendered these four words as:
“Created from a drop emitted” (Yusuf Ali).
“Created from a gushing fluid” (Pickthal).
“Water pouring forth” (Shakir).
“Created from a fluid poured forth” (Zafraullah khan).
“Spurt of water” (Hamidullah).

Arabic speakers can really appreciate the beauty of these four words!

The Quran does not use the word ‘sperm’, nor the word ‘semen’, nor does it say anything about the production of semen or sperm.

The emphasis is clearly on the word ‘daafiq’, the surging, the welling out, the pouring forth, the shedding, and the flowing out of the fluid.

Simply put, it is the ejaculate that fertilizes. And that is the simple truth. The simple scientific truth!

** how ?**
Sperm alone cannot even move very well. They need energy to swim to the egg and penetrate it. That is provided by fructose, a sugar produced by the seminal vesicles.
Prostaglandin hormones are needed to suppress an immune response by the female against the foreign semen.
Zinc is needed to stabilize the DNA of the sperms.
Metal and salt ions are needed to make the pH of the vaginal cavity favorable for the sperm to survive.
Lipids, steroid hormones, enzymes, basic amines, and amino acids are also needed to perform vital functions.

The ejaculated fluid has all that is needed, including the sperms (2-5% sperms, 95-98% other ingredients). The statement of the Quran is absolutely correct!

 

[Jay53]

The exact Arabic words: Bain usSulbe watTaraib
Sulb = backbone, loin, lower back;
Taraib = ribs, breastbone, chest.
Bain = between, among, amidst

It is a phrase in Arabic that is similar to the English phrase, “somewhere between the front and the back”

It would mean that the semen springs from “somewhere between the front and the back” of the body. In other words, somewhere from inside the body!

If one was to insist upon the literal meaning, one would still find that the Quran is 100% correct literally, too. The seminal vesicles are anterior to the sacrum and coccyx (lower back, loin) and the ribs are anterior to the seminal vesicles.

If one was to draw a line from the tip of the coccyx, to the upper portion of the seminal vesicle _ either one of the two_ and extend the line forward it will catch the ribcage.

The seminal vesicles from which the semen spurts out during coitus, lies between the ribs and the coccyx!

In fact, if the Quran had said that the semen is produced in the abdomen, (“between the ribcage and the spine”), and not the testicles, it would still be accurate. At least 95 to 98% accurate! Only 2-5% of the semen is contributed by the testicles. The rest is produced in the glands located in the pelvic cavity.

anyway , the Quran does not say where the semen is produced, because the Quran is not 98% accurate. It is 100% ACCURATE!

What does the Quran really say?

Question: What is it that man is created from? Answer:
(He is) created from the surging fluid! 87:6

Famous translators have rendered these four words as:
“Created from a drop emitted” (Yusuf Ali).
“Created from a gushing fluid” (Pickthal).
“Water pouring forth” (Shakir).
“Created from a fluid poured forth” (Zafraullah khan).
“Spurt of water” (Hamidullah).

Arabic speakers can really appreciate the beauty of these four words!

The Quran does not use the word ‘sperm’, nor the word ‘semen’, nor does it say anything about the production of semen or sperm.

The emphasis is clearly on the word ‘daafiq’, the surging, the welling out, the pouring forth, the shedding, and the flowing out of the fluid.

Simply put, it is the ejaculate that fertilizes. And that is the simple truth. The simple scientific truth!

** how ?**
Sperm alone cannot even move very well. They need energy to swim to the egg and penetrate it. That is provided by fructose, a sugar produced by the seminal vesicles.
Prostaglandin hormones are needed to suppress an immune response by the female against the foreign semen.
Zinc is needed to stabilize the DNA of the sperms.
Metal and salt ions are needed to make the pH of the vaginal cavity favorable for the sperm to survive.
Lipids, steroid hormones, enzymes, basic amines, and amino acids are also needed to perform vital functions.

The ejaculated fluid has all that is needed, including the sperms (2-5% sperms, 95-98% other ingredients). The statement of the Quran is absolutely correct!

OK, that’s really a bit of a stretch - especially for something that is supposed to be the verbatim word of God - as if God didn’t know His own creation and had to give a vague explanation to be stretched like that!!! Someone had to really think hard to somehow try and make this explanation fit.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

OK, that’s really a bit of a stretch - especially for something that is supposed to be the verbatim word of God - as if God didn’t know His own creation and had to give a vague explanation to be stretched like that!!! Someone had to really think hard to somehow try and make this explanation fit.

Any argument that tries to say a holy book was written as a science book is a stretch in and of itself.

 

[ZAKI]

OK, that’s really a bit of a stretch - especially for something that is supposed to be the verbatim word of God - as if God didn’t know His own creation and had to give a vague explanation to be stretched like that!!! Someone had to really think hard to somehow try and make this explanation fit.

not really…that is the REASON why the Quran should be read in arabic bcz when it is translated into english it is a bit of a stretch but when it is in arabic it is so easy to understand.

wasalam

 

[dzheremi]

Whoops…there goes the whole “the Qur’an is meant for all mankind, not just arabs” and “the Qur’an/Islam is not a tool of Arab imperialism” argument that Muslims try to make. Thanks, Zaki. It’s not often that a Muslim will admit this, even indirectly.

 

[jblake]

ZAKI;:

not really…that is the REASON why the Quran should be read in arabic bcz when it is translated into english it is a bit of a stretch but when it is in arabic it is so easy to understand.

Translation: By keeping it in Arabic, people that don’t read Arabic fluently can’t point out that the q’ran is both self-refuting, and self-contradictory.

Best to keep the masses in ignorance, because the truth will set them (the masses) free of the self proclaimed false sacred text, the q’ran, and the self proclaimed false religion, islam.

jonathon

 

[elwill]

OK, that’s really a bit of a stretch - especially for something that is supposed to be the verbatim word of God - as if God didn’t know His own creation and had to give a vague explanation to be stretched like that!!! Someone had to really think hard to somehow try and make this explanation fit.

Only a creator of the universe can reveal words that remain precise and accurate for thousands of years even in this changing world. Every generation feels as if the Quran was revealed specifically for them, and only yesterday.

That is the miracle of the Quran! Its words seem always to be in agreement with what science has observed and determined with certainty.

jay , God didn’t give vague explanation to anything , quran isn’t scientific book , quran just with agreement with science always

This is the subject matter of the 86th chapter, a total of less than 65 words in Arabic.

In the name of Allah, the Most Merciful, the Most Beneficent

By the sky, and the night star! How would you know what the night star is? A bright star! There is no soul without a guardian over it. Let man look at the substance he is created from! Created from the surging fluid which springs from between the spine and the ribs! Indeed, He is capable of bringing man back to life (after his death).
That day secrets would be laid bare. (That day) man shall have neither strength, nor any helpers. (I swear) by the sky that repeatedly sends rain down. And by the earth that splits (and lets plants emerge). Indeed, this Qur’an is the statement that sifts (right from wrong). It is not an idle tale! They are hatching a nefarious plot. But I, too, shall devise a scheme! So give the unbelievers a little respite. Deal with them gently for a while.

These words ask you to look at how insignificant is the beginning of man. Would God have any difficulty resurrecting such an insignificant being?

it isn’t vague verse , but the scientists can find thier share in it to stretch it’s meaning from scientific point of view
and only the scientists of this field can make this explanation about these verses , i have no doubts from that

 

[elwill]

Whoops…there goes the whole “the Qur’an is meant for all mankind, not just arabs” and “the Qur’an/Islam is not a tool of Arab imperialism” argument that Muslims try to make. Thanks, Zaki. It’s not often that a Muslim will admit this, even indirectly.

i think that i allready used 5 different translations to refute you

beside , there is no doubts that you have to take the original language in your considerations
one of the most important issue about quran is that it’s exist in it’s original language , so don’t try to refute quran by the advantage it have
be objective , man

 

[seraphime2008]

In the name of Allah, the Most Merciful, the Most Beneficent

By the sky, and the night star! How would you know what the night star is? A bright star! There is no soul without a guardian over it. Let man look at the substance he is created from! Created from the surging fluid which springs from between the spine and the ribs! Indeed, He is capable of bringing man back to life (after his death).
That day secrets would be laid bare. (That day) man shall have neither strength, nor any helpers. (I swear) by the sky that repeatedly sends rain down. And by the earth that splits (and lets plants emerge). Indeed, this Qur’an is the statement that sifts (right from wrong). It is not an idle tale! They are hatching a nefarious plot. But I, too, shall devise a scheme! So give the unbelievers a little respite. Deal with them gently for a while.

/QUOTE]

Excuse me…tell me what does it mean for the words I put in blue?
-that God will devise a scheme so that the unbeliever will respite a little and to be dealt gently for a while, for what purpose later?
-That Allah needs to swear by things that he created?

 

[dzheremi]

i think that i allready used 5 different translations to refute you

I don’t know what you’re trying to say here. Refute me regarding what? The site I use to read the Qur’an, the University of Southern California’s searchable Qur’an at the Center for Muslim Jewish Engagement, offers Yusufali, Pickthal, and Shakir translations for EVERY SINGLE VERSE. What you and I have argued about before are what you consider to be contextual justifications of verses that I find objectionable. You haven’t refuted me using any particular translation that I’ve seen, because there’s nothing wrong with the translations that I have available to me already.

beside , there is no doubts that you have to take the original language in your considerations
one of the most important issue about quran is that it’s exist in it’s original language , so don’t try to refute quran by the advantage it have

It is only an “advantage” to you because you feel that it is, just as it is only “one of the most important issues” because you feel that it is. Coming from a Christian perspective, as an inheritor of Hebrew, Greek, and Syriac scriptural traditions, this Islamic stance does not make sense. It is not just me that has pointed this out, but I’ll add my voice to the others once more: Islamic epistemology sets up parameters which work for it alone, and reinforces itself by its resulting “perfection” in relation to those parameters. You cannot claim to best every other religion simply by fulfilling your own expectations of what a “true” religion should be. This is like me faulting Islam for not having sacraments or hesychasm.

It is not actually an advantage of the Qur’an that it exists in its “original language” (albeit with diacritics added, some verses missing or removed, etc), but then by expecting you to concede or even understand this I would be committing the same error that you are committing here.

be objective , man

Indeed!

 

[seraphime2008]

elwill:

In fact, if the Quran had said that the semen is produced in the abdomen, (“between the ribcage and the spine”), and not the testicles, it would still be accurate. At least 95 to 98% accurate! Only 2-5% of the semen is contributed by the testicles. The rest is produced in the glands located in the pelvic cavity.
anyway , the Quran does not say where the semen is produced, because the Quran is not 98% accurate. It is 100% ACCURATE!

As I read from the wikipedia, exactly the semen (the 2-5% plus the rest 98-95%) are the product of exactly the glands in the testicle, nothing else. So what is this stretch try to tell anyway…that u want to produce ur own scientific argument? Lol…u’re just unbelievable!

And to say that ejaculation that makes the the fertilization of embryo was so …ignorant…to say the least Have u heard the in vitro fertilization? It only needs the ovum and the sperm, nothing else! Oh…I forget, ur Koran hadn’t seen this invention yet!

 

[elwill]

In the name of Allah, the Most Merciful, the Most Beneficent

By the sky, and the night star! How would you know what the night star is? A bright star! There is no soul without a guardian over it. Let man look at the substance he is created from! Created from the surging fluid which springs from between the spine and the ribs! Indeed, He is capable of bringing man back to life (after his death).
That day secrets would be laid bare. (That day) man shall have neither strength, nor any helpers. (I swear) by the sky that repeatedly sends rain down. And by the earth that splits (and lets plants emerge). Indeed, this Qur’an is the statement that sifts (right from wrong). It is not an idle tale! They are hatching a nefarious plot. But I, too, shall devise a scheme! So give the unbelievers a little respite. Deal with them gently for a while.

Excuse me…tell me what does it mean for the words I put in blue?
-that God will devise a scheme so that the unbeliever will respite a little and to be dealt gently for a while, for what purpose later?
-That Allah needs to swear by things that he created?

They are hatching a nefarious plot. But I, too, shall devise a scheme! So give the unbelievers a little respite. Deal with them gently for a while.

So, give a respite to the disbelievers
this is command from God to the prophet/reader which means : wait for them and do not be in haste concerning them.
(deal gently with them for a while.)
a little while. This means that you will see what befalls them of torment, punishment and destruction.

as for in another verse god says
we let them enjoy for a little while, then in the end We shall oblige them to (enter) a great torment.) (31:24)

 

[Greg27]

Personally I think care need to be taken in comparing the two sacred books. While the Bible is basically a library or collection of different books of different literary genres compiled over thousands of years, the Q’uran is basically a recording of a series of revelations that are attributed to one man, Mohammed. The Q’uran though only forms one (though extremely important) part of the framework of Islamic belief and doctrine, and other sources (i.e. Hadith and Islamic Jurisprudence or law) are equally important.

I think the Bible is a great work of literature and indisputably so, though at points is seems alien and even boring. The Q’uran though is very hard to understand from a Western point of view and I don’t think any translation of it accurately reflects what the original text, especially when it is liturgically recited in prayer in the original Arabic, means to the devout Muslim. The sense of the sacred Muslims have when they hear passages of the Q’uran recited is supposed to be much the same as for Christians when they partake in the most sacred ‘mysteries’ of the Christian faith, such as baptism or the eucharist. I think it would be rash to dismiss the Q’uran as lacking any worthy or beauty without taking into account its unique nature and context.

Regardless of their literary merits both texts are extremely important as highly influential religious books and for the influence they have had on ideas and history and culture.

 

[Jay53]

Only a creator of the universe can reveal words that remain precise and accurate for thousands of years even in this changing world. Every generation feels as if the Quran was revealed specifically for them, and only yesterday.

Trying to say that semen originates “between the ribcage and spine” is not “precise and accurate!!” That is what you are trying to stretch to fit. God obviously knows the anatomy of the human as He created us - He could p(name removed by moderator)oint exactly where semen comes from without giving a non-exact location that scientists have to stretch to fit the reality of anatomy. Precisely and accurately, the heart and lungs are located “between the ribcage and the spine” - not reproductive organs.

That is the miracle of the Quran! Its words seem always to be in agreement with what science has observed and determined with certainty.

Obviously not - see above.

jay , God didn’t give vague explanation to anything , quran isn’t scientific book , quran just with agreement with science always

This is the subject matter of the 86th chapter, a total of less than 65 words in Arabic.

In the name of Allah, the Most Merciful, the Most Beneficent

By the sky, and the night star! How would you know what the night star is? A bright star! There is no soul without a guardian over it. Let man look at the substance he is created from! Created from the surging fluid which springs from between the spine and the ribs! Indeed, He is capable of bringing man back to life (after his death).
That day secrets would be laid bare. (That day) man shall have neither strength, nor any helpers. (I swear) by the sky that repeatedly sends rain down. And by the earth that splits (and lets plants emerge). Indeed, this Qur’an is the statement that sifts (right from wrong). It is not an idle tale! They are hatching a nefarious plot. But I, too, shall devise a scheme! So give the unbelievers a little respite. Deal with them gently for a while.

These words ask you to look at how insignificant is the beginning of man. Would God have any difficulty resurrecting such an insignificant being?

it isn’t vague verse , but the scientists can find thier share in it to stretch it’s meaning from scientific point of view
and only the scientists of this field can make this explanation about these verses , i have no doubts from that

That is strictly a matter of your faith. I, knowing for myself that the Quran is not from God, obviously do not see the agreements with science that you do. I just don’t agree with the stretched made to make the verses fit reality.

 

[elwill]

I don’t know what you’re trying to say here. Refute me regarding what? The site I use to read the Qur’an, the University of Southern California’s searchable Qur’an at the Center for Muslim Jewish Engagement, offers Yusufali, Pickthal, and Shakir translations for EVERY SINGLE VERSE. What you and I have argued about before are what you consider to be contextual justifications of verses that I find objectionable. You haven’t refuted me using any particular translation that I’ve seen, because there’s nothing wrong with the translations that I have available to me already.

i didn’t mean you personally , i just meant anyone against this verse
the problem which raised in the first place was that quran says that sperm generated from kidney
my point was that not arabic quran nor the translations of it mentioned the sperm nor kidney
so it was you (not you pesonally) who try to stretch the original meaning of quran to fit it with anything contradict the scientific facts to convince yourself that it contains errors

It is not actually an advantage of the Qur’an that it exists in its “original language” (albeit with diacritics added, some verses missing or removed, etc), but then by expecting you to concede or even understand this I would be committing the same error that you are committing here.

your expectations are right untill you give me proofs , give me example of missing verses and show me how you discovered it ?

 

[elwill]

Trying to say that semen originates “between the ribcage and spine” is not “precise and accurate!!” That is what you are trying to stretch to fit. God obviously knows the anatomy of the human as He created us - He could p(name removed by moderator)oint exactly where semen comes from without giving a non-exact location that scientists have to stretch to fit the reality of anatomy. Precisely and accurately, the heart and lungs are located “between the ribcage and the spine” - not reproductive organs

first of all , you believe that it isn’t accurate and precise , but it still correct statement .
don’t forget that i challanged you to find errors

secondly , i don’t think that the main purpose of this verse is to inform muslims the scientific name of the place where semen be generated .
i told you that These words ask you to look at how insignificant is the beginning of man.
quran just have simple indications that these words are from God not from simple man lived in desert 1400 years ago among pagans whom had no scietific knowledge at all

That is strictly a matter of your faith. I, knowing for myself that the Quran is not from God, obviously do not see the agreements with science that you do. I just don’t agree with the stretched made to make the verses fit reality.

it dosn’t matter with me if you believed that quran isn’t from God , your problem with me is about if you can show me that quran isn’t from god
just one error in quran is enough for me