Bible - Qur'an Comparison

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That’s pretty odd. I’ve read a fair amount of Jewish literature, and I’ve never seen it anywhere said that it was Ishmael and not Isaac who was going to be in the sacrifice. Funny how Muslims claim to know Judaism better than the Jews.

:confused:
 
How can you say that the writers of the Old and New Testament wrote the books with no inspiration? The first Koran was written by hands too if necessary to remind you! Do you believe that a divine hand wrote the verses on parchments/animal skins/ stones/ leaves?
Are you serious? I’m so shocked that you still can’t see the meaning of plain English. What this means, written by their hands, is without inspiration–they made it up, that’s what it means. It doesn’t mean written with hands as opposed to feet. Why do you ask these inane questions? The Qur’an was revealed to Muhammad–a recitation, and then it was copied down–with hands, yes of course. But what was copied wasn’t what they made up, but what was revealed.
What you deliberately fail to see is that **2:79 **refers to the evil people fabricating some stories and attributing them to God. Such books written by such crooked people we designate as APOCRYPHAL and do not accept as a part of sacred scripture. Spurious writings exist – this is what the Koran reiterates – but they cannot take the place of the original scriptures.
This is kind of amusing, really. The Qur’an is clear, and you know it is, and you’re trying so hard to disguise the fact. What you just said here is obvious. It’s not something I fail to see, it is the patently obvious. It just so happens that you think they aren’t included in the Bible, while I do.
He (Allah) asked Mohammad to consult Jews in order to be sure about the revelation whereas in **2:75-79 **He declared Jews as dishonest people that do not respect even their faith!
Among the Jews, like anyone else, are righteous people and wicked people. You cannot paint them all with one brush, and neither does the Qur’an. Muhammad did not consult Jews to be sure about their revelation–that wasn’t the point. He told them to consult their own book for their own judgment. Muslims do not need to look outside the Qur’an for proof of Islam.
 
That’s pretty odd. I’ve read a fair amount of Jewish literature, and I’ve never seen it anywhere said that it was Ishmael and not Isaac who was going to be in the sacrifice. Funny how Muslims claim to know Judaism better than the Jews.
It is not the case that Muslims claim to know Judaism better than Jews. What happened is that the tradition of the Muslims (of the Arabs) was that Ishmael was the sacrificed son. The tradition of the Jews as you see in Genesis is that it was Isaac. That is what you have.

But there was a Jewish scholar in Arabia who told the Prophet Muhammad saws that the Jews had changed it to be Isaac (from whom the Jews descended) as the sacrificed son out of jealousy, instead of leaving it to be Ishmael.
 
In the Koran I have and check, Mohammad’s name does not occur in the sentence talking of the split moon as an apocalyptic sign. Have you got a different Koran? You mean the night journey that no one else but Mohammad witnessed? Do you really call that hypothetical transfer a miracle?
All you have to do is pick up a book of biography of Muhammad or a book of hadith and you will come across this story which is well known and authenticated. The meaning is obvious for people who study the Qur’an. All you’ve done is say that you fail to grasp the obvious.
These three were really selected by Jews who wanted to test Mohammad? What were their criteria?
The answers. The Quraysh of Mecca sent to the Jews of Yathrib to ask them about Muhammad, and they said that if he answers these questions that he is a prophet and to follow him.
Question 2) Jews asking Mohammad to relate the story of the famous Alexander the Great? What did that specific group of Jews have to do with the Hellenistic Emperor?
The question was not about Alexander the Great, and neither was the answer. The question was about a traveler, the answer was Dhul-Qarnain who is not the same as Alexander the Great.
Question 3) The answer to this question cannot be found in the chapter named AL Kahf! Such a question is present in the previous chapter named Isra:
17: 85. They are asking thee concerning the Spirit. Say: The Spirit is by command of my Lord, and of knowledge ye have been vouchsafed but little.
You’re right and that was my mistake. This appears in Surat al-Israa’ (17) and not in Surat al-Kahf (18). That was my mistake, but you managed to find the ayaa anyway. Good for you.👍
More, there is no evidence in the Koran that the story of the 7 sleepers was a question asked by a group of people although it is true that the other 2 questions were narrated on the request of some curious people.
Who are you to say there is no evidence for one thing but that another thing is true? What evidence do YOU have, I wonder!? This story is well known, and appears in collections of hadith and biographies of Muhammad.
 
This is a very misleading post. Christians and Jews are supposed to not abide by their “books” as you say but to judge by what God has revealed and that alone.
and which happens to be their books because Jews and Christians cannot abide by something they do not have in their hands in the first place.
 
That’s pretty odd. I’ve read a fair amount of Jewish literature, and I’ve never seen it anywhere said that it was Ishmael and not Isaac who was going to be in the sacrifice. Funny how Muslims claim to know Judaism better than the Jews.

:confused:
even the Quran does not mention Ishmael by name regarding the sacrifice…Bible corruption is the easiest reply when confronted with what does not suit them, even though the Quran neither mentions Ishmael as the sacrifice nor does it talk about textual corruption of previous scriptures… a chaos indeed .
 
What this means, written by their hands, is without inspiration–they made it up, that’s what it means.

this could apply to any books written, including Talmud and Mishna and tradition or any other book. It has nothing to do with textual corruption of the Bible itself that Muhammad asked them to read and abide by…and surely he is not going to ask them to abide and read non existent books…and since the OT is what Jews and Christians have had for thousands of years before Muhammad and after him, and since they have been mentioned in both Jewish and Christian traditions for thousands of years, it is on you to prove HISTORICALLY that both Jews and Christians had different OT, and to explain to us how 2 opposing groups have miraculously the same scriptures.
It just so happens that you think they aren’t included in the Bible, while I do.
 
It is not the case that Muslims claim to know Judaism better than Jews. What happened is that the tradition of the Muslims (of the Arabs) was that Ishmael was the sacrificed son. The tradition of the Jews as you see in Genesis is that it was Isaac. That is what you have.

Correction… The tradition of your scholars is and have always been divided…your earliest scholars say it was Isaac…
 
All you have to do is pick up a book of biography of Muhammad or a book of hadith and you will come across this story which is well known and authenticated.

i don’t get it eather sorry. What is the miracle about exactly, and was it witnesed or just narrated by Muhammad?
The answers. The Quraysh of Mecca sent to the Jews of Yathrib to ask them about Muhammad, and they said that if he answers these questions that he is a prophet and to follow him.
 
Although im galavanting around europe at the moment, i had a niggling urge to get on here… and i know why…
welcome back Angelos and InJesus!
Its good to see you are back hard at work defending the true faith!
God bless you both…
:grouphug:
many thanks, Dolphinlove! Blessed be the name of the Most High, who allows us to come together here to defend our faith! The wisdom he imparts us is what enables us to hush liars and repulse the foes of our faith 😉

:hug3:

Angelos N.B.
 
My question was: “Who was given the Injeel?”

And it’s not the right answer. I mean, you totally missed the point. I will say it again. The Injeel was given to Jesus. Not to the Jews, but to Jesus. I was that specific and yet you couldn’t ansewr it. According to the Qur’an, the Injeel was given to Jesus. Let that sink in.

The Qur’an was revealed to Muhammad–the word itself means recitation–something that is recited. It was not revealed from Heaven in written form, but it was recited and memorized and written down, and preserved by God. This is all very simple.
I did not ask who was given the Injeel! Yet it is claimed - in the Koran - that Allah gave the so-called Injeel to JEWS through ISSA! It is always YOU who misses my points and put the blame on me! Still waiting for your answer to my question: what makes you think that the Injeel was not revealed in the same way as the Koran? Your personal comments or a few Islamic scholars hiding the truth in the Koran verses regarding the Gospel? Please try something better.
Don’t be silly, I have provided numerous ayaat to back up this claim from the Qur’an. Simply saying otherwise is counterfactual. And I’ll do so again, the aya below is talking about the Children of Israel, mentioned in 5:12.

5:13 But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.
After I debunk your claims about one of the few verses you post - a verse you deliberately detach from its context - , you bring me another verse that fails to support your allegations. It is only the traditional aversion to the Bible that makes you interpret the verse in question in favor of your assertions having no basis. I m telling you for the 100th time now, hoping that this time it will sink in: Anyone can change any word from its right place and forget certain things on purpose. This has NOTHING to do with textual corruption. Your beloved verse - in which you put your whole faith and hope - does not accuse Christians/Jews of destroying or losing the (supposed) original revelation so as to replace it with the supposedly corrupted one!

Further, the Koran says that changing words from their right places is something those people recurrently do! This once more proves that the alteration in question was a VERBAL one, not a WRITTEN one as you zealously suggest. This is also why the Koran never says the Scripture Jews and Christians have and read is CORRUPTED! :rolleyes:

P.S: I had been a Muslim for many years and studied the Koran. I perfectly know how Muslim scholars forget what is written in their Scripture and change many verses from their right places.

Peace,
Angelos N.B.
 
Are you serious? I’m so shocked that you still can’t see the meaning of plain English. What this means, written by their hands, is without inspiration–they made it up, that’s what it means. It doesn’t mean written with hands as opposed to feet. Why do you ask these inane questions? The Qur’an was revealed to Muhammad–a recitation, and then it was copied down–with hands, yes of course. But what was copied wasn’t what they made up, but what was revealed.
I am shocked that you still cannot stop comitting logical fallacies! :eek:

Dear sister, be sure that saying “All cacti are succulent” is not the same as saying “All succulents are cacti”! The fact that some people fabricated religious stories and made efforts to get them authorized as Sacred Scripture will never prove that the Bible was written by such people! I can and DO claim that Mohammad’s scribes wrote the book with their hands and claimed it to be a revelation from Allah! Therefore, woe unto them! 😃

Besides, you definitely have not known so far the word CONTEXT! I suggest reading a few books on Linguistics 🙂 The CONTEXT of the verse mentioning some people writing the book with their hands has NOTHING to do with the INSPIRED and AUTHORIZED authors of the Bible. Read better:

2: 77-79 Are they then unaware that Allah knoweth that which they keep hidden and that which they proclaim ? Among them are unlettered folk who know the Scripture not except from hearsay. They but guess. Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, “This is from Allah,” that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby.

This verse is not concerned with the supposed corruption of the book, not even with the APOCRYPHA, but with the dishonest character of their inventors!
Among the Jews, like anyone else, are righteous people and wicked people. You cannot paint them all with one brush, and neither does the Qur’an. Muhammad did not consult Jews to be sure about their revelation–that wasn’t the point. He told them to consult their own book for their own judgment. Muslims do not need to look outside the Qur’an for proof of Islam.
Sorry, I did not know that your Scripture told lies when it REALLY asked Mohammad to consult the JEWS as it is clear in the verse below:

10: 94. And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers.

Shocking news!!! Allah asking Mohammad to consult the Jews, whom he later - in your personal comments - accuses of corrupting their Scripture and practising fraud? Hmmmm what a drastic change in his message indeed! 😉

Peace,

Angelos N.B.
 
All you have to do is pick up a book of biography of Muhammad or a book of hadith and you will come across this story which is well known and authenticated. The meaning is obvious for people who study the Qur’an. All you’ve done is say that you fail to grasp the obvious.
You unfortunately suffer from short memory. I last time asked you to provide me with solid evidence from the Koran since you claimed that those miracles were in the Koran. Now you want me to check Hadith collections and biographies, which are not authorised by the Koran itself! This is my point: You cannot prove those so-called miracles without the help of other religious sources of your faith. 😉
The answers. The Quraysh of Mecca sent to the Jews of Yathrib to ask them about Muhammad, and they said that if he answers these questions that he is a prophet and to follow him.
Why the answers??? I wanted to know why those Jews chose those 3 questions while testing Mohammad’s integrity. Why those 3 questions only? What were their criteria why selecting test questions? Waiting for the answer 😉
The question was not about Alexander the Great, and neither was the answer. The question was about a traveler, the answer was Dhul-Qarnain who is not the same as Alexander the Great.
WHO did those Jews have in mind while asking that question then? (the identification of Alexander the Great with Dhul-Qarnain is still under discussion) Did the Jews keep the name of that traveller a secret from Mohammad? That’s not the case since the Koran verse makes it clear that some people ask Mohammad about Dhul-Qarnain, knowing and telling him the name of that traveller. What people in that chapter ask Mohammad is not the NAME of the traveller, but the detailed story of his JOURNEYS! :rolleyes:
You’re right and that was my mistake. This appears in Surat al-Israa’ (17) and not in Surat al-Kahf (18). That was my mistake, but you managed to find the ayaa anyway. Good for you.👍
This verifies my point that the so-called test questions did not appear in one single chapter! Something wrong with the fiction of the testing by the Jews then! If you believe that Mohammad answered Jews’ questions through different chapters, I wonder if the verses below were meant to answer the same Jews asking questions! (In that case the test would have **6 **questions instead of 3 🤷 )

2: 217. **They question thee **(O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of Allah …

2: 219. They question thee about strong drink and games of chance.

4: 176. **They ask thee **for a pronouncement. Say: Allah hath pronounced for you concerning distant kindred.
Who are you to say there is no evidence for one thing but that another thing is true? What evidence do YOU have, I wonder!? This story is well known, and appears in collections of hadith and biographies of Muhammad.
I m Angelos, pleased to meet you 😃

18: 83. They will ask thee of Dhu’l-Qarneyn. Say: I shall recite unto you a remembrance of him.
(it is clear that this is an answer to a definite question!)

17: 85. They are asking thee concerning the Spirit. Say: The Spirit is by command of my Lord, and of knowledge ye have been vouchsafed but little. (it is clear that this is an **answer **- vague one though - to a question!)

18: 9. Or deemest thou that **the People of the Cave **and the Inscription are a wonder among Our portents ?

It is clear that this story of the People of the Cave was not related on the occasion of a question!!! This is my evidence that those Jewish group of yours did not question Mohammad about the sleeping people. 😃

Peace,
Angelos N.B.
 
I learn so much off InJesus and you (Angelos), you are both really well informed and i can only pray my knowledge will one day be as good as both of you.
Anyway, over and out for a few days…
This site is very addictive, i even look at it on hols! lol
Take care and God be with you all
 
I learn so much off InJesus and you (Angelos), you are both really well informed and i can only pray my knowledge will one day be as good as both of you.
Anyway, over and out for a few days…
This site is very addictive, i even look at it on hols! lol
Take care and God be with you all
We shall always be here to help you 🙂

Take care and enjoy yourself in Europe. We have already missed you 😉

Peace & blessings,

ANgelos N.B.
 
rikkk–there is a very simple reply to your post:

If you are telling the truth, bring your proof.
Show me the proof that Muhammed saw an angel and proof of his life story. You may not even know how the quran was compiled and perhaps abrogated.
 
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