Bible - Qur'an Comparison

[AgnosTheist]

In 5:47, what the Qur’an is saying is for Christians and Jews to judge by the Law and the Gospel. Christians and Jews often prefer not to do that, however. They don’t like to maintain all those old laws (though there are a minority that do) and instead they raise secular laws above their own scripture from God.

You dont know what you are talking about. Much of Jewish Laws are dependent on the existence of the Temple and the Priesthood. Thats the reason why they want to reclaim Jerusalem and destroy the Dome of the Rock…in order to rebuild the Temple and re-establish Jewish Law. Its you Muslims who are denying them that.

and you have the nerve of accusing them of such nonsense.

 

[Booklover]

You dont know what you are talking about. Much of Jewish Laws are dependent on the existence of the Temple and the Priesthood. Thats the reason why they want to reclaim Jerusalem and destroy the Dome of the Rock…in order to rebuild the Temple and re-establish Jewish Law. Its you Muslims who are denying them that.

and you have the nerve of accusing them of such nonsense.

I think one of the problems is that Muslims believe that the whole world belongs to them and they are just taking back what is legally theirs according to Allah.

vickie

 

[Lapell]

Sister Amy, someone mentioned your “new faith”. So you were not born a Muslim? It just sank down when I read this mention …

 

[Lapell]

Well, this is Holy Thursday, so I’ll leave this thread until next Monday… Have an excellent Paschal Tridduum and a great Resurrection Day, everyone (for those of you who are Catholic or of another Christian denomination)! God bless you all (including the non-Christians)! Peace be with you from the Lord Almighty!

 

[inJESUS]

Amy, what you did to defend your argument is repeating the same reply 3 times. What we did is dissect your reply and answer each point with counter arguments from *your *book. It is ok if you got no more arguments, but repeating the same reply when it has been refuted many times with dozens of quotes from your own scriptures doesn’t give your arguments any credit …if you stick to your explanation of that one verse, maybe you can explain how all the quotes Angelos quoted fit well with your explanation and are still meaningfull ayas. Good luck.

 

[planten]

**
Dear verisinilitude: Your post:

72:1 Say (O Muhammad SAW): "It has been revealed to me that a group (from three to ten in number) of jinns listened (to this Quran). They said: Verily! We have heard a wonderful Recital (this Quran)!

In 5:47, what the Qur’an is saying is for Christians and Jews to judge by the Law and the Gospel. Christians and Jews often prefer not to do that, however. They don’t like to maintain all those old laws (though there are a minority that do) and instead they raise secular laws above their own scripture from God.

As a person of the Gospel I have judged what allah/mohammed of the koran has revealed and it is not Truth. The Jinn/demons praise it as wonderfull and that should tell you something. Do you know how demons reacted to real Truth?

Matthew 8:29"What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”

**

May I inform you that these Jinn were the Christians from Afghanistan. They had come as a group to find out about the new prophet who had appeared in Arabia. They met the prophet, in privacy (out of town), and listened to quran and authenticated it. Later they accepted Islam. They were originally Jews in Afghanistan. Later they became christians. In about 628 A.D. They came to Madinah and met the prophet Muhammad. I will give further details if required.

 

[inJESUS]

Jinn are humans? does Islam teach that Jinn and humans are a same species?

 

[planten]

Jinn are humans? does Islam teach that Jinn and humans are a same species?

Yes, Jinn are of few kinds as described in the Quran. Some time or most of the time, they are foriegners, aliens, not the sons of the soil. They are described in the chapter 27 about the time of the King David and King Soloman.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Planten, you are alone in asserting that Jinns are humans.

FYI:

islamawareness.net/Jinn/

I think you came up with that conclusion because of the fact that there are no other creatures living on earth aside from humans, plants & animals. Mohammad lied, there are no creatures here that are made of smoke. Jinns are nothing but pre-islamic folk tales.

 

[planten]

Unlike you - who has forgotten to update her messages -, here am I quoting more verses from your Koran to illustrate how you Muslims’ false claims about the Bible are rebutted by your own scrpiture

32: 23-24. We verily gave Moses the Scripture; so be not ye in doubt of his receiving it; and We appointed it a guidance for the Children of Israel. And when they became steadfast and believed firmly in Our revelations, We appointed from among them leaders who guided by Our command.

35: 31-32. As for that which We inspire in thee of the Scripture, it is the Truth confirming that which was (revealed) before it. Lo! Allah is indeed Observer, Seer of His slaves. Then We gave the Scripture as inheritance unto those whom We elected of Our bondmen.

40: 53-54. And We verily gave Moses the guidance, and We caused the Children of Israel to inherit the Scripture, a guide and a reminder for men of understanding.

35: 29. Lo! those who read the Scripture of Allah, and establish worship, and spend of that which We have bestowed on them secretly and openly, they look forward to imperishable gain.

Finally, a very interesting verse about the revelation given to Jews:

6: 91. And they measure not the power of Allah its true measure when they say: Allah hath naught revealed unto a human being. Say (unto the Jews who speak thus): Who revealed the Book which Moses brought, a light and guidance for mankind, which ye have put on parchments which ye show, but ye hide much (thereof), and (by which) ye were taught that which ye knew not yourselves nor (did) your fathers (know it) ? Say: Allah. Then leave them to their play of cavilling.

It is not possible to understand the emaning without the related nearby verses. I am presenting those verses also so that meaning becomes clear.

**[32:22] And who is more unjust than he who is reminded of the Signs of his Lord and then turns away from them? We will, surely, exact retribution from the guilty.
[32:23] And We indeed gave Moses the Book - be not, therefore, in doubt about receiving a perfect Book thyself - and We made it a guidance for the Children of Israel.
[32:24] And We appointed from among them leaders, who guided the people by Our command, because they were steadfast and had firm faith in Our Signs. **
[32:25] Verily, thy Lord - He will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that in which they used to disagree

[35:30] In order that He may give them their full rewards, and even increase them out of His bounty. He is, surely, Most Forgiving, Most Appreciating.
[35:31] And the Book which We have revealed to thee is the truth itself, fulfilling that which is before it. Surely, Allah is All-Aware of His servants, All-Seeing concerning His servants.
[35:32] Then We have always made inheritors of the Book those of Our servants whom We choose. Some of them are hard upon themselves and of them are some who take the middle course, and of them are some who excel others in deeds of goodness by Allah’s leave. And that indeed is the great grace from Allah.

**[40:52] The day when their pleading will not profit the wrongdoers, and for them will be the curse and for them will be the evil abode.
[40:53] And, indeed, We gave Moses the guidance, and made the children of Israel heirs to the Book -
[40:54] A guidance and a Reminder for men of understanding.
[40:55] So have patience. Surely, the promise of Allah is true. And ask forgiveness for them for the wrongs they have done thee and glorify thy Lord with His praise in the evening and the in morning.

[35:27] Dost thou not see that Allah sends down water from the sky, and We bring forth therewith fruits of different colours; and in the mountains are streaks white and red, of diverse hues, and others raven black?
[35:28] And in the like manner, there are men and beasts and cattle, of various colours. Only those of His servants who are endowed with knowledge fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Mighty, Most forgiving.
[35:29] Surely, only those who follow the Book of Allah and observe Prayer and spend out of what We have provided for them, secretly and in public, look for a bargain which will never fail;
[35:30] In order that He may give them their full rewards, and even increase them out of His bounty. He is, surely, Most Forgiving, Most Appreciating. **

 

[inJESUS]

Planten, what does your context prove other than the Jews and Christians had perfect books and revelations?

 

[planten]

Planten, you are alone in asserting that Jinns are humans.

FYI:

islamawareness.net/Jinn/

I think you came up with that conclusion because of the fact that there are no other creatures living on earth aside from humans, plants & animals. Mohammad lied, there are no creatures here that are made of smoke. Jinns are nothing but pre-islamic folk tales.

** I am sure of what I said. The Jinn are humans too. They belong to tribes and may live in mountains. I will prove from the Quran that some Jinn are humans. But they are foreigners. There was a Jinn in the cabinet of Hazrat Sulaiman a.s. (The king Soloman). He was some hefty Jinn, may be some one from Sudan.**

 

[planten]

Planten, what does your context prove other than the Jews and Christians had perfect books and revelations?

Yes, what the Jews and Christians had been given was perfect. God does not give imperfect things to the prophets. What Jesus received was as a prophet of God like all other prophets. He did not receive anything as a god from God. What he received was perfect teachings and he delivered the perfect true teachings to the people. But what happened to his teachings after he went away is none of any one’s business.

 

[AgnosTheist]

** I am sure of what I said. The Jinn are humans too. They belong to tribes and may live in mountains. I will prove from the Quran that some Jinn are humans. But they are foreigners. There was a Jinn in the cabinet of Hazrat Sulaiman a.s. (The king Soloman). He was some hefty Jinn, may be some one from Sudan.**

But you are the only one saying that. Every other Muslim would say that Jinns are creatures made of fire & smoke. Definitely not human.

 

[inJESUS]

Yes, what the Jews and Christians had been given was perfect. God does not give imperfect things to the prophets.

What Jesus received was as a prophet of God like all other prophets. He did not receive anything as a god from God. What he received was perfect teachings and he delivered the perfect true teachings to the people. But what happened to his teachings after he went away is none of any one’s business.

exactly what we are discussing. Jews and Christians have had the perfect scriptures before and during the lifetime of Muhammad. When then did they get corrupted? after Muhammad?

 

[inJESUS]

Planten,

And I (Allah) created not the jinns and humans, except they should worship Me (Alone).” (Adh-Dhariyat: 56)

at least Allah is making a distinction between the 2.

“And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame o fire.” (Al-Hijr : 27)

Every individual among the sons of Adam has a jinn who has been appointed to be his constant companion (qarin). Ibn Mas`ud reports that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) says: “The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) says: ‘There is not one of you who does not have a jinn appointed to be his constant companion.’ They said, ‘And you too, O Messenger of Allah?’ He said, ‘Me too, but Allah has helped me and he has submitted, so that he only helps me to do good.’” (Reported by Muslim)

 

[Sister_Amy]

Jinns aren’t humans. Man was created from clay–angels created from light–jinns created from a smokeless fire, before men were created.

Jinns are part of the “unseen world” which Muslims believe in, even though they don’t have much knowledge on the subject.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Jinns are part of the “unseen world” which Muslims believe in, even though they don’t have much knowledge on the subject.

Ive met some muslims who believe that Jinns eat bones and left over food. And that they also possess people. And that they have entire cities and communities somewhere here on earth. What do you think about jinns?

 

[Angelos]

It is not possible to understand the emaning without the related nearby verses. I am presenting those verses also so that meaning becomes clear.

**[32:22] And who is more unjust than he who is reminded of the Signs of his Lord and then turns away from them? We will, surely, exact retribution from the guilty.
[32:23] And We indeed gave Moses the Book - be not, therefore, in doubt about receiving a perfect Book thyself - and We made it a guidance for the Children of Israel.
[32:24] And We appointed from among them leaders, who guided the people by Our command, because they were steadfast and had firm faith in Our Signs. **
[32:25] Verily, thy Lord - He will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that in which they used to disagree

[35:30] In order that He may give them their full rewards, and even increase them out of His bounty. He is, surely, Most Forgiving, Most Appreciating.
[35:31] And the Book which We have revealed to thee is the truth itself, fulfilling that which is before it. Surely, Allah is All-Aware of His servants, All-Seeing concerning His servants.
[35:32] Then We have always made inheritors of the Book those of Our servants whom We choose. Some of them are hard upon themselves and of them are some who take the middle course, and of them are some who excel others in deeds of goodness by Allah’s leave. And that indeed is the great grace from Allah.

[40:52] The day when their pleading will not profit the wrongdoers, and for them will be the curse and for them will be the evil abode.
[40:53] And, indeed, We gave Moses the guidance, and made the children of Israel heirs to the Book -
[40:54] A guidance and a Reminder for men of understanding.
[40:55] So have patience. Surely, the promise of Allah is true. And ask forgiveness for them for the wrongs they have done thee and glorify thy Lord with His praise in the evening and the in morning.

[35:27] Dost thou not see that Allah sends down water from the sky, and We bring forth therewith fruits of different colours; and in the mountains are streaks white and red, of diverse hues, and others raven black?
[35:28] And in the like manner, there are men and beasts and cattle, of various colours. Only those of His servants who are endowed with knowledge fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Mighty, Most forgiving.
[35:29] Surely, only those who follow the Book of Allah and observe Prayer and spend out of what We have provided for them, secretly and in public, look for a bargain which will never fail;
[35:30] In order that He may give them their full rewards, and even increase them out of His bounty. He is, surely, Most Forgiving, Most Appreciating.

Nothing so far to prove the traditional Islamic allegations of the biblical corruption! DO you really believe that Jews’ and Christians’ disbelief in Mohammad and his Koran supports the claim that the Bible is corrupted? You must be kidding.

Peace,
Angelos N.B.

 

[Sister_Amy]

There is a foul smell here: because of someone’s stale posts?

Indeed, I hope that trying a broken record would get the message to sink in. Has it?

Unlike you - who has forgotten to update her messages -, here am I quoting more verses from your Koran to illustrate how you Muslims’ false claims about the Bible are rebutted by your own scrpiture

Why do you say “your Koran” as if I wrote it? It makes it difficult for me to take you seriously, and I mean you are pushing my limits.

32: 23-24. We verily gave Moses the Scripture; so be not ye in doubt of his receiving it; and We appointed it a guidance for the Children of Israel. And when they became steadfast and believed firmly in Our revelations, We appointed from among them leaders who guided by Our command.

Notice the portion I bolded. Don’t be in doubt that he received it–God says he revealed it to Moses, that Moses received it. That is what Muslims believe. The Children of Israel were also shown signs or proofs that Moses was a prophet from God. Just a note: the word revelations–I looked this up in the Arabic and the word is “ayaatinaa” which means “Our Signs.” The word “ayaat” is the same word used for what some less-informed non-Muslims call “verses” in the Qur’an. Verses is incorrect, the word means signs. This passage also talks about the Children of Israel being sent a line of prophets to rule them–i.e., “leaders who guided by Our command.”

35: 31-32. As for that which We inspire in thee of the Scripture, it is the Truth confirming that which was (revealed) before it. Lo! Allah is indeed Observer, Seer of His slaves. Then We gave the Scripture as inheritance unto those whom We elected of Our bondmen.

Once again, this passage proves my point.

40: 53-54. And We verily gave Moses the guidance, and We caused the Children of Israel to inherit the Scripture, a guide and a reminder for men of understanding.

Same thing. Inherit the scripture means it was written down–they kept it (that is, the TORAH) in written form. Not surprising.

35: 29. Lo! those who read the Scripture of Allah, and establish worship, and spend of that which We have bestowed on them secretly and openly, they look forward to imperishable gain.

You shouldn’t have quoted this one, it shows you don’t know what you’re talking–for this is about Muslims. And “read” is not a good translation of yatloona–rehearse or recite is better. And it says kitab Allah–the book of Allah. It’s talking quite obviously about the Qur’an. It doesn’t say “establish worship” but in fact says establish salaat which is the ritual prayer of Muslims. So in fact it’s not about Jews at all but about Muslims, and the Qur’an.

Finally, a very interesting verse about the revelation given to Jews:

Ooops for you.

6: 91. And they measure not the power of Allah its true measure when they say: Allah hath naught revealed unto a human being. Say (unto the Jews who speak thus): Who revealed the Book which Moses brought, a light and guidance for mankind, which ye have put on parchments which ye show, but ye hide much (thereof), and (by which) ye were taught that which ye knew not yourselves nor (did) your fathers (know it) ? Say: Allah. Then leave them to their play of cavilling.

Here it is Allah who contends that the Scripture Jews possess is the revelation given to Moses. However, Jews are said to deny it!

I almost feel bad for you–it’s like you lifted ayaat from the book thanks to a search engine without bothering to even read the context. I feel bad for embarassing you. This verse is again related to Muslims–the Jews were saying God didn’t reveal to a human (that is, Muhammad!). And the response is that Muhammad is to tell them that Moses had a book revealed from God. The rest of it even implies that Jews don’t have or know the full scripture (hide much) that was given to Moses.

It’s pretty obvious that the Qur’an isn’t saying that what the Jews had was preserved, that it was as pristine as the revelation to Moses. Just that God revealed to Moses, and the Jews have some of it. You can consult a common tafsir of this ayah here.

Specifically this part is interesting: *(which you have made into (separate) papersheets, disclosing (some of it) and concealing (much).) means, you made the Tawrah into separate sheets which you copied from the original and altered, changed and distorted as you wished. You then said, "this is from Allah,’’ meaning it is in the revealed Book of Allah, when in fact, it is not from Allah. *

Henceforth I advise you against imposing your own interpretations on the Qur’an and this search-engine quoting. Use the Qur’an if you wish but you can’t just pull willynilly and ignore the context.