Bible

[Luke1_48]

Why are the deuterocanonicals scripture? How did the Bible come to us? I need help with some kids I know who are getting on my nerves about Catholics and the Bible.

 

[Dave]

This should help:

catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0307bt.asp

catholic.com/library/old_testament_canon.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0107fea2.asp

 

[Luke1_48]

Dave:

This should help:

catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0307bt.asp

catholic.com/library/old_testament_canon.asp

Thank you, my brother keeps telling me that the church never accepted them.

 

[Dave]

This one might even be better:

envoymagazine.com/backissues/1.2/marapril_story2.html

God Bless, and good luck with your brother!

 

[Luke1_48]

Cool! Does anyone have any records of when the canon was finalized?

 

[Luke1_48]

Does anyone here know how the church recieved the Bible from God? I mean I saw Stigmata and I’m wondering why the Gospel of Thomas isn’t in the New Testament?

 

[jimmy]

Here are some councils. Baruch is part of Jeremiah. Wisdom is in the biiks of Solomon. These councils were all before the year 400AD.

Council of Rome

“Now indeed we must treat of the divine scriptures, what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she ought to shun. The order of the Old Testament begins here: Genesis, one book; Exodus, one book; Leviticus, one book; Numbers, one book; Deuteronomy, one book; Joshua [Son of] Nave, one book; Judges, one book; Ruth, one book; Kings, four books [that is, 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings]; Paralipomenon [Chronicles], two books; Psalms, one book; Solomon, three books: Proverbs, one book, Ecclesiastes, one book, [and] Canticle of Canticles [Song of Songs], one book; likewise Wisdom, one book; Ecclesiasticus [Sirach], one book . . . . Likewise the order of the historical [books]: Job, one book; Tobit, one book; Esdras, two books [Ezra and Nehemiah]; Esther, one book; Judith, one book; Maccabees, two books” (Decree of Pope Damasus [A.D. 382]).

Council of Hippo

"[It has been decided] that besides the canonical scriptures nothing be read in church under the name of divine Scripture. But the canonical scriptures are
as follows: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua the Son of Nun, Judges, Ruth, the Kings, four books, the Chronicles, two books, Job, the Psalter, the five books of Solomon [Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Wisdom

, and a portion of the Psalms], the twelve books of the prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Tobit, Judith, Esther, Ezra, two books, Maccabees, two books . . ." (Canon 36 [A.D. 393]).

Council of Carthage III

“[It has been decided] that nothing except the canonical scriptures should be read in the Church under the name of the divine scriptures. But the canonical scriptures are: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, Paralipomenon, two books, Job, the Psalter of David, five books of Solomon, twelve books of the prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Tobit, Judith, Esther, two books of Esdras, two books of the Maccabees . . .” (Canon 47 [A.D. 397]).

 

[mercygate]

Luke1:48:

Cool! Does anyone have any records of when the canon was finalized?

The materials you have links to should explain this. The first lists of the canon were the Councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (398). Each affirmed Athanasius’ earlier list of 368. Thise lists contain the deuterocanonical books. The Seventh Ecumenical Council ratified these lists. The “official” closing of the canon, however, did not occur until Trent. The list ratified at Trent was the same list. Protestants sometimes like to say that the “extra” books were “added” by the Council of Trent. Serious Protestants do not make this claim, however.

 

[Luke1_48]

Cool, I always thought that the Bible just didn’t appear one day, but my brother seems to think that way. I just read somewhere that the church fathers didn’t have the authority to decide what belongs in the Bible, can anyone help me here?

 

[jimmy]

Here is what the council of Florence says in the 1400s

Five books of Moses, namely Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy; Joshua, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, two of Paralipomenon, Esdras, Nehemiah, Tobit, Judith, Esther, Job, Psalms of David, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Baruch, Ezechiel, Daniel; the twelve minor prophets, namely Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi; two books of the Maccabees; the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John; fourteen letters of Paul, to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, to the Galatians, to the Ephesians, to the Philippians, two to the Thessalonians, to the Colossians, two to Timothy, to Titus, to Philemon, to the Hebrews; two letters of Peter, three of John, one of James, one of Jude; Acts of the Apostles; Apocalypse of John.

So the protestant claim is meaningless, that the Catholic church did this at the council of Trent. There were several councils before then that defined the canon and included the dueterocanonicals.

 

[mercygate]

Luke1:48:

Cool, I always thought that the Bible just didn’t appear one day, but my brother seems to think that way. I just read somewhere that the church fathers didn’t have the authority to decide what belongs in the Bible, can anyone help me here?

It’s not just “the Church Fathers.” It’s “the Church.” First read the materials you have been given. Then come back with specific questions. There are other threads on this in these forums as well – though sometimes a thread becomes so tangled that it’s just better to start over.

 

[jimmy]

Someone had to make the decision or no one would have. If they can show from the bible where it defines the canon they may have a case, but they will not find that. There is no definition of the canon in the bible. Someone had to make that definition.

 

[Luke1_48]

I agree, but my brother doesn’t think so. It’s almost as if he believed the Bible just came into being.

 

[Fidelis]

I would highly recommend to you (and your brother) the classic book on this subject “Where We Got The Bible” by Henry Graham. It is available for purchase on this Catholic Answers website at

shop.catholic.com/cgi-local/…0791+1107535920

or online at

angelfire.com/ms/seanie/…m_contents.html

 

[Luke1_48]

I’m reading in another thread about the saints that there is this guy who just believes the bible came into being, but what about these councils? I’m not good at this stuff, help.

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

Before we can talk about how we received the Word of God, can anyone here tell me what is THE WORD OF GOD?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[hlgomez]

Yaqubos,

Before you go even more further, what is the difference between the Word of God and God’s Word?

Pio

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

jimmy:

Someone had to make the decision or no one would have. If they can show from the bible where it defines the canon they may have a case, but they will not find that. There is no definition of the canon in the bible. Someone had to make that definition.

God made the decision.

And where do you think the canon came from? It came from Scripture.

We can talk about all this if the Lord wills. But first: what is the Word of God?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[hlgomez]

And where do you think the canon came from? It came from Scripture.

Where can we find the list of complete Books in Scriptures? Can you cite a verse from the Bible?

Pio

 

[steve_b]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

Before we can talk about how we received the Word of God, can anyone here tell me what is THE WORD OF GOD?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

1. The Word of God is Jesus
2. AND God’s inspiration written down and inscripturated, is also called the word of God.