Bible

[Psalm45_9]

YAQUBOS:

What is this WORD OF GOD?

Pax Vobiscvm!

Sorry, I was being narrow-minded, I forgot the rest:

‘75 “Christ the Lord, in whom the entire Revelation of the most high God is summed up, commanded the apostles to preach the Gospel, which had been promised beforehand by the prophets, and which he fulfilled in his own person and promulgated with his own lips. In preaching the Gospel, they were to communicate the gifts of God to all men. This Gospel was to be the source of all saving truth and moral discipline.”[32]

76 In keeping with the Lord’s command, the Gospel was handed on in two ways:

• orally “by the apostles who handed on, by the spoken word of their preaching, by the example they gave, by the institutions they established, what they themselves had received - whether from the lips of Christ, from his way of life and his works, or whether they had learned it at the prompting of the Holy Spirit”;[33]
• in writing “by those apostles and other men associated with the apostles who, under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit, committed the message of salvation to writing”.[34]

77 “In order that the full and living Gospel might always be preserved in the Church the apostles left bishops as their successors. They gave them their own position of teaching authority.”[35] Indeed, “the apostolic preaching, which is expressed in a special way in the inspired books, was to be preserved in a continuous line of succession until the end of time.”[36]

78 This living transmission, accomplished in the Holy Spirit, is called Tradition, since it is distinct from Sacred Scripture, though closely connected to it. Through Tradition, “the Church, in her doctrine, life and worship, perpetuates and transmits to every generation all that she herself is, all that she believes.”[37] “The sayings of the holy Fathers are a witness to the life-giving presence of this Tradition, showing how its riches are poured out in the practice and life of the Church, in her belief and her prayer.”[38]

79 The Father’s self-communication made through his Word in the Holy Spirit, remains present and active in the Church: “God, who spoke in the past, continues to converse with the Spouse of his beloved Son. And the Holy Spirit, through whom the living voice of the Gospel rings out in the Church - and through her in the world - leads believers to the full truth, and makes the Word of Christ dwell in them in all its richness.”[39]

 

[Psalm45_9]

(continued)

81 “Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit.”[42]

“And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching.”[43]

 

[Luke1_48]

YAQUBOS:

By the way: the so called “Orthodox” did never give any official decision concerning those 7 human writings.

W8, I am lost here, who gave the offical decision for your canon? Why are they human writings and not scripture?

 

[jimmy]

Luke1:48:

W8, I am lost here, who gave the offical decision for your canon? Why are they human writings and not scripture?

Luke, Yaquabus is a protestant.

The Orthodox, whether Catholic or Eastern Orthodox, all include all the dueterocanonicals in the bible. The early Christians used the Septuagint which includes the deuterocanonicals.

It was not untill Martin Luther that any group denied them. They may find Jerome to have been against them. But that is one bishop out of probably a hundred thousand bishops in the history of the Catholic Church. There were like 1800 bishops at the time of the Nicene council.

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

YAQUBOS:

*Peace be with you!

1. How this Inspiration was written down?

steve b:

By the inspiration of the HS through human writers

1. Did those humans DECIDE what to write, or did the Holy Spirit inspire them what to write.?
2. What is the difference between a poetic inspiration and the Inspiration of the Word of God?

YAQUBOS:

1. Why was it written down?

steve b:

So all generations can read, know, love and learn what God wants us to know about Him

BEFORE the Inspiration was written down, did anyone know anything about what God wants us to know about Him?

YAQUBOS:

1. Why is it called Word of God?

steve b:

Because it is God breathed through the HS.

Is there not any other God breathed word in this world? If yes, then why is it not added to this Word of God and called WORD OF GOD?

YAQUBOS:

1. Who is the author of the Word of God?

steve b:

God’s inspiration through human writers

Did those humans know anything about what God wants BEFORE God inspired it?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!
steve b:

OT references

But the Lord replied, "Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I, the LORD? Now therefore, go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall say" (Ex. 4:11-12). So was it Moses words or God’s words?

Later, when Moses was recording the second set of tablets of the Law, God said to him, "Write these words, for according to these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel" (Ex. 34:27). the words that Moses wrote came from the mouth of God.

David also indicated the authenticity of the Scriptures and their authorship by God when he said, "The Spirit of the LORD spoke by me, and His word was on my tongue" (2 Sam. 23:2). When David wrote God’s Word, no extraneous thoughts or ideas crept in.
When Jeremiah was called to prophesy for God, he, like Moses, balked. His excuse was that he could not speak, for he was a youth (Jer. 1:6). But verse 9 says, "Then the LORD put forth His hand and touched my mouth, and the LORD said to me: ‘Behold, I have put My words in your mouth.’" There was no doubt in Jeremiah’s mind-the prophecy that he recorded was not his own. He recorded the words that God had put in his mouth.

Jeremiah made numerous indirect references to God speaking through him. Nearly 100 times he wrote that “the word of the Lord” (or a similar expression) had come to him. These words appear many times in Ezekiel as well.

Hosea spoke in a similar vein. The first verse of his book begins, “The word of the LORD that came to Hosea.” A similar expression is found in the first verse of the books of Joel, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.

NT references

The apostle Paul claimed that he spoke what was revealed to him by God. He said, “Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.*** These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches,*** comparing spiritual things with spiritual” (1 Cor. 2:12-13).

Paul spoke and wrote what was revealed to him by the Spirit of God. He reaffirmed this thought when he recorded, "For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe" (1 Thess. 2:13).

2 Timothy 3:16: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

To this Peter adds, "For prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit" (2 Pet. 1:21).

And this goes on and on.

Let’s first be sure all those quotes are the WORD OF GOD.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

jimmy:

Luke, Yaquabus is a protestant.

The Orthodox, whether Catholic or Eastern Orthodox, all include all the dueterocanonicals in the bible. The early Christians used the Septuagint which includes the deuterocanonicals.

It was not untill Martin Luther that any group denied them. They may find Jerome to have been against them. But that is one bishop out of probably a hundred thousand bishops in the history of the Catholic Church. There were like 1800 bishops at the time of the Nicene council.

jimmy, you say Jerome was against those human writings. Well, why don’t you call him protestant as you call me?..

By the way, it seems that you don’t know what the so called “Orthodox” accept and do not accept… For those churches did NEVER accept those human writings as SCRIPTURE. And it is ONLY the Roman Church who elevated those writings to the level of Scripture in the 16th century.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[mercygate]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

By the way, it seems that you don’t know what the so called “Orthodox” accept and do not accept… For those churches did NEVER accept those human writings as SCRIPTURE. And it is ONLY the Roman Church who elevated those writings to the level of Scripture in the 16th century.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

Yaqubos – that is simply untrue. Ask any Greek/Russian/Antiochene/what-have-you Orthodox Priest to list the books in his Bible. The Deuterocanonicals are all there.

 

[Psalm45_9]

Pax Vobiscvm!

YAQUBOS:

jimmy, you say Jerome was against those human writings. Well, why don’t you call him protestant as you call me?

Wrong!

Jerome

"What sin have I committed if I follow the judgment of the churches? But he who brings charges against me for relating [in my preface to the book of Daniel] the objections that the Hebrews are wont to raise against the story of Susannah [Dan. 13], the Song of the Three Children [Dan. 3:24-90], and the story of Bel and the Dragon [Dan. 14], which are not found in the Hebrew volume, proves that he is just a foolish sycophant. I was not relating my own personal views, but rather the remarks that they are wont to make against us. If I did not reply to their views in my preface, in the interest of brevity, lest it seem that I was composing not a preface, but a book, I believe I added promptly the remark, for I said, `This is not the time to discuss such matters’" (Against Rufinius 11:33 [A.D. 401]).

 

[Psalm45_9]

(contiuned)

YAQUBOS:

By the way, it seems that you don’t know what the so called “Orthodox” accept and do not accept…

“Among other versions, the two main Canons of the Old Testament are the “Palestinian Canon”, also known as the “Hebrew or Masoretic Text” and the “Alexandrian Canon” also known as the “Septuagint” translation. The main difference between these two versions is the number of books. The former contains 39 books and the later has 10 extra books referred to as “Deuterocanonical”. The Protocanonical books were understood as those which directly dealt with the Salvation of humanity. The Deuterocanonical books of the Alexandrian Canon were understood in a pedagogic light and thus the Septuagint received its authority because it was adopted by the Church.”

“The Orthodox Church accepted the Alexandrian Canon (Septuagint LXX) as divinely inspired, appropriate for reading in Church, and on a personal reading level. The shorter or Hebrew Canon remained as the Canon par excellence, and was most valuable for giving validity to basic Christian doctrines…”

“Even though the different Traditions of Orthodoxy may differ in which books they include in the Old Testament Canon, the fact remains that the Conscience of the Church generally accepts the Septuagint (LXX) or Alexandrian Canon…

For the Orthodox Church, the Old Testament is not perceived as a magical book which fell out of the sky, but as the authentic witness of her faith. The Old Testament developed an ecclesiological character corresponding to the teachings of the Church which of course are founded on biblical revelation. For the Orthodox Church, the Old Testament is not an antithesis to the New, but is united to the New, and is as equally important in the perception of the message of salvation.”

from Voice in the wilderness, v. 5(4-6), 1997
Greek Orthodox Church of St. George, South Brisbane

http://home.it.net.au/~jgrapsas/pages/old_testament.html

YAQUBOS, as you will find, the Eastern Orthodox do not like to define things, they prefer to keep their faith a mystery. Like they do not believe in transubstantiation, but they believe in the physical presence of the Eucharist, just like Catholics do. They do not care if councils of Hippo and Carthage did not bind the Canon shut, because they realize that their faith was not instituted by scripture. Every Orthodox Church uses the LXX and their canon contains the 7 deuterocanonicals.

 

[Psalm45_9]

(continued)

YAQUBOS:

For those churches did NEVER accept those human writings as SCRIPTURE. And it is ONLY the Roman Church who elevated those writings to the level of Scripture in the 16th century.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

Wrong! The Church bound the canon in the 16th century, they did not add things to it.

The Didache

"You shall not waver with regard to your decisions [Sir. 1:28]. Do not be someone who stretches out his hands to receive but withdraws them when it comes to giving [Sir. 4:31**]" (Didache** 4:5 [A.D. 70]).

The Letter of Barnabas

"Since, therefore, [Christ] was about to be manifested and to suffer in the flesh, his suffering was foreshown. For the prophet speaks against evil, Woe to their soul, because they have counseled an evil counsel against themselves' [Isa. 3:9], saying, Let us bind the righteous man because he is displeasing to us’ Wis. 2:12.]" (Letter of Barnabas 6:7 [A.D. 74]).

Pope Clement I

"By the word of his might [God] established all things, and by his word he can overthrow them. `Who shall say to him, “What have you done?” or who shall resist the power of his strength?’ Wis. 12:12]" (Letter to the Corinthians 27:5 [ca. A.D. 80]).

**Polycarp of **Smyrna

"Stand fast, therefore, in these things, and follow the example of the Lord, being firm and unchangeable in the faith, loving the brotherhood [1 Pet. 2:17]. . . . When you can do good, defer it not, because `alms delivers from death’ [Tob. 4:10**, 12:9]. Be all of you subject to one another [1 Pet. 5:5], having your conduct blameless among the Gentiles [1 Pet. 2:12**], and the Lord may not be blasphemed through you. But woe to him by whom the name of the Lord is blasphemed [Isa 52:5]!" (Letter to the Philadelphians** 10 [A.D. 135]).

**Irenaeus of **Lyons

**“Those . . . who are believed to be presbyters by many, but serve their own lusts and do not place the fear of God supreme in their hearts, but conduct themselves with contempt toward others and are puffed up with the pride of holding the chief seat [Matt. 23:6] and work evil deeds in secret, saying No man sees us,' shall be convicted by the Word, who does not judge after outward appearance, nor looks upon the countenance, but the heart; and they shall hear those words to be found in Daniel the prophet: O you seed of Canaan and not of Judah, beauty has deceived you and lust perverted your heart’ [Dan. 13:56]. You that have grown old in wicked days, now your sins which you have committed before have come to light, for you have pronounced false judgments and have been accustomed to condemn the innocent and to let the guilty go free, although the Lord says, `You shall not slay the innocent and the righteous’ [Dan. 13:52, citing Ex. 23:7]” (*Against Heresies ***4:26:3 [A.D. 189]; Dan. 13 is not in the Protestant Bible).

 

[Psalm45_9]

(continued)

**Irenaeus of **Lyons

"Jeremiah the prophet has pointed out that as many believers as God has prepared for this purpose, to multiply those left on the earth, should both be under the rule of the saints and to minister to this [new] Jerusalem and that [his] kingdom shall be in it, saying, `Look around Jerusalem toward the east and behold the joy which comes to you from God himself. Behold, your sons whom you have sent forth shall come: They shall come in a band from the east to the west. . . . God shall go before with you in the light of his splendor, with the mercy and righteousness which proceed from him’ [Bar. 4:36-5:9]" (ibid. 5:35:1; Baruch was often reckoned as part of Jeremiah, as it is here).**

Hippolytus

"What is narrated here [in the story of Susannah] happened at a later time, although it is placed at the front of the book [of Daniel], for it was a custom with the writers to narrate many things in an inverted order in their writings. . . . [W]e ought to give heed, beloved, fearing lest anyone be overtaken in any transgression and risk the loss of his soul, knowing as we do that God is the judge of all and the Word himself is the eye which nothing that is done in the world escapes. Therefore, always watchful in heart and pure in life, let us imitate Susannah" (Commentary on Daniel [A.D. 204]; the story of Susannah [Dan. 13] is not in the Protestant Bible).

**Cyprian of **Carthage

"In Genesis [it says], And God tested Abraham and said to him, "Take your only son whom you love, Isaac, and go to the high land and offer him there as a burnt offering . . . "' [Gen 22:1-2] ... Of this same thing in the Wisdom of Solomon [it says], Although in the sight of men they suffered torments, their hope is full of immortality . . .’ [Wis. 3:4]. Of this same thing in the Maccabees [it says], `Was not Abraham found faithful when tested, and it was reckoned to him for righteousness’" [1 Macc. 2:52; see Jas. 2:21-23] (Treatises** 7:3:15** [A.D. 248]).**

---

 

[mercygate]

Perhaps there is a little confusion here. Looking at Yaqubos’ statement about the Orthodox accepting the deuterocanonical books, gives me the impression that he does not know what the Orthodox churches are. He uses the term “so-called” and put the word ‘orthodox’ in quotes.

Yaqubos – DO you understand what is meant when we refer to Orthodox Churches? Those Churches of the East which have apostolic succession (do you know what apostolic succession is?) that are not in Communion with the See of Rome? Because this is a key historical piece that needs to be in place for your understanding of much in the history of the Church.

 

[steve_b]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

Let’s first be sure all those quotes are the WORD OF GOD.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

I trust you’ll look them up one by one.

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

mercygate:

Yaqubos – that is simply untrue. Ask any Greek/Russian/Antiochene/what-have-you Orthodox Priest to list the books in his Bible. The Deuterocanonicals are all there.

It’s not up to the individual to answer that, right? Isn’t this topic about this? So you need an “Orthodox” council… Please, remind me of the “Orthodox” council which declared those human writings as SCRIPTURE.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

mercygate:

Perhaps there is a little confusion here. Looking at Yaqubos’ statement about the Orthodox accepting the deuterocanonical books, gives me the impression that he does not know what the Orthodox churches are. He uses the term “so-called” and put the word ‘orthodox’ in quotes.

Yaqubos – DO you understand what is meant when we refer to Orthodox Churches? Those Churches of the East which have apostolic succession (do you know what apostolic succession is?) that are not in Communion with the See of Rome? Because this is a key historical piece that needs to be in place for your understanding of much in the history of the Church.

I don’t have any problem if you underestimate me and my knowledge. But the main thing is to not underestimate the Word of God.

My friend, if you read my replies carefully, you will see what I am talking about.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!
steve b:

I trust you’ll look them up one by one.

Where will I look them up?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

Friends, let’s remember that we are now thinking about the following question:

What is the WORD OF GOD?

So let’s concentrate on this, instead of talking about other writings. If we really understand this, we will very easily see how those human writings are not the WORD OF GOD.

My reply #45 contains some important questions and answers to think about. Read it again please.

In Love,

Yaqubos†

 

[Luke1_48]

Yo W8! What about this??? I’m totally lost now.
Psalm45:9:

Among other versions, the two main Canons of the Old Testament are the “Palestinian Canon”, also known as the “Hebrew or Masoretic Text” and the “Alexandrian Canon” also known as the “Septuagint” translation. The main difference between these two versions is the number of books. The former contains 39 books and the later has 10 extra books referred to as “Deuterocanonical”. The Protocanonical books were understood as those which directly dealt with the Salvation of humanity. The Deuterocanonical books of the Alexandrian Canon were understood in a pedagogic light and thus the Septuagint received its authority because it was adopted by the Church.”

“The Orthodox Church accepted the Alexandrian Canon (Septuagint LXX) as divinely inspired, appropriate for reading in Church, and on a personal reading level. The shorter or Hebrew Canon remained as the Canon par excellence, and was most valuable for giving validity to basic Christian doctrines…”

“Even though the different Traditions of Orthodoxy may differ in which books they include in the Old Testament Canon, the fact remains that the Conscience of the Church generally accepts the Septuagint (LXX) or Alexandrian Canon…

For the Orthodox Church, the Old Testament is not perceived as a magical book which fell out of the sky, but as the authentic witness of her faith. The Old Testament developed an ecclesiological character corresponding to the teachings of the Church which of course are founded on biblical revelation. For the Orthodox Church, the Old Testament is not an antithesis to the New, but is united to the New, and is as equally important in the perception of the message of salvation.”

from Voice in the wilderness

, v. 5(4-6), 1997
Greek Orthodox Church of St. George, South Brisbane

home.it.net.au/~jgrapsas/pages/old_testament.html

Council of Hippo

“[It has been decided] that besides the canonical Scriptures nothing be read in church under the name of divine Scripture. But the canonical Scriptures are as follows: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua the Son of Nun, Judges, Ruth, the Kings, four books, the Chronicles, two books, Job, the Psalter, the five books of Solomon, the twelve books of the Prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Tobit, Judith, Esther, Ezra, two books, Maccabees, two books . . .” (canon 36 [A.D. 393]).

Council of Carthage III

“[It has been decided] that nothing except the canonical Scriptures should be read in the Church under the name of the divine Scriptures. But the canonical Scriptures are: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, Paralipomenon, two books, Job, the Psalter of David, five books of Solomon [Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Wisdom, Sirach], twelve books of the Prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Tobit, Judith, Esther, two books of Esdras, two books of the Maccabees . . .” (canon 47 [A.D. 397]).

 

[Luke1_48]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

Friends, let’s remember that we are now thinking about the following question:

What is the WORD OF GOD?

So let’s concentrate on this, instead of talking about other writings. If we really understand this, we will very easily see how those human writings are not the WORD OF GOD.

My reply #45 contains some important questions and answers to think about. Read it again please.

In Love,

Yaqubos†

YAQ, my bro, we seem to be ignorant, could you explain some things for us? I always thought Jesus was the Word of God. I’m so confussed here.