"Biden’s communion denial highlights faith-politics conflict." Artcle shows polarized reactions to his denial of communion last year

[MagdalenaRita]

If 60-70% of Catholics have the same position (opinion) as Biden what exactly is going on here?

Something very disturbing.

Even that Catholics who say they are prolife and know that abortion is evil but yet want to put this pro-abortion man in as president is very disturbing.

 

[lwest]

Even if it contradicts Church Teaching? (people in mortal sin shouldn’t receive)

 

[Hodos]

You must have me confused with Jesus. I do not know his soul, or his confession schedule.

I will be glad with these political ads are done.

Let’s assume that he was confessing his sinful promotion of abortion as not only something that should be legal, but something that should be expanded and given increased funding to perform. Does continuing to maintain very public profession of this policy stance show fruit of repentance?

Keep in mind, it was Jesus who gave the command to ex-communicate unrepentant sinners. Also, Paul was not Jesus and yet he commanded the Corinthians to do the same for someone engaged in an adulterous relationship with his father’s wife.

 

[pnewton]

I am not saddened by any deference to priests but the lack of concern of how Our Lord is treated.

What? You are accusing me of not being concerned how or Lord is treated??? Hey, I may not be Jesus, but I still think he is the only one who can look into hearts.

Even if it contradicts Church Teaching? (people in mortal sin shouldn’t receive)

Should those who believe the death penalty still is acceptable also not receive? That is the problem with this sort of judging others. We always judge what we already agree with and rationalize that teaching we do not agree with.

Keep in mind, it was Jesus who gave the command to ex-communicate unrepentant sinners.

Again, that would apply to procuring, performing, or having an abortion, and not applicable in this case. He is not, in a matter of provable fact, not excommunicated.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

What? You are accusing me of not being concerned how or Lord is treated???

I am not accusing anyone of anything. I only replied to the comment I read.

Again, that would apply to procuring, performing, or having an abortion, and not applicable in this case.

Bishops are speaking out

Catholics may not in anyway cooperate with this crime against humanity and Catholic voters and politicians are not exempt from the shared obligation to protect innocent human life from conception until natural death.

https://cdop.org/2020/10/respect-life-month-letter-from-bishop-daniel-jenky-csc/

 

[pnewton]

Bishops are speaking out

But they are not changing canon law. Not all sin results in excommunication. I was addressing excommunication. I know bishops speak.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I know bishops speak.

He said you can not cooperate in anyway! That includes voting for someone who pushes abortion.

I really just don’t get this. It just seems there are Catholics who have no care or concern for the abortion issue, our children believing his lies by telling them it’s okay, his pushing same sex marriage and not only that doesn’t anyone care about Mr. Biden’s eternal salvation? Or are we just using him?

 

[lwest]

The Church doesn’t teach that it’s a mortal sin to believe the death penalty is still acceptable.

 

[mercyalways]

I am not saddened by any deference to priests but the lack of concern of how Our Lord is treated.

It is not only a priest from long ago who told Biden not to take Communion. Here is a report recently from the Catholic World Report about Cardinal Burke saying Biden should not take communion:

Cardinal Burke: Biden should not receive Holy Communion – Catholic World Report

 

[pnewton]

The Church doesn’t teach that it’s a mortal sin to believe the death penalty is still acceptable.

No, she doesn’t

He said you can not cooperate in anyway !

But he did not say that any support in any way resulted in excommunication, nor even that it is a mortal sin. Having an abortion, paying for one, performing one, are all mortal sins.

I know Cardinal Burke said it was, but that has never been put out by the Church. This is where the whole nonsense that voting can be a mortal sin if abortion is involved in any way. There is a danger in picking Church leaders that have opinions that coincide with yours, and then present that like it was the teaching of the Church at large. I am thinking of the USCCB voter’s guide which makes it clear that it is possible, under some circumstance to vote for someone who does support abortion.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

But he did not say that any support in any way resulted in excommunication, nor even that it is a mortal sin. Having an abortion, paying for one, performing one, are all mortal sins.

I know Cardinal Burke said it was, but that has never been put out by the Church. This is where the whole nonsense that voting can be a mortal sin if abortion is involved in any way.

Seems to me like you are walking on an awfully thin line here. Pretty dangerous for your soul.

Also it can be a mortal sin to cooperate, especially in the way Mr. Biden is. As Catholics we should not encourage him in grave sin. Very unloving and that can be a mortal sin.

This is where the whole nonsense that voting can be a mortal sin if abortion is involved in any way. There is a danger in picking Church leaders that have opinions that coincide with yours, and then present that like it was the teaching of the Church at large.

I said nothing earlier about Cardinal Burke but posted a letter from Bishop Jenky, though I agree with Cardinal Burke and the USCCB that abortion is the preeminent issue, Notice that Cardinal Burke said he advises Mr. Biden not to approach communion out of charity to Mr. Biden’s soul.

This is where the whole nonsense that voting can be a mortal sin if abortion is involved in any way

This has gone beyond just abortion being involved. This election is about abortion.

 

[pnewton]

Pretty dangerous for your soul… Very unloving and that can be a mortal sin.

This is the exact type of judging of one’s soul condemned by the Catholic Church. My own counsel I will keep on what the Church teaches. I will pass on adding the political ads that have proliferated here to the list of Church teaching documents.

This election is about abortion.

I will vote accordingly anytime it is on the ballot. The Church has said it is the pre-eminent issue, not that the election is about abortion. Just the opposite, as other issues are listed.

 

[lwest]

He has publicly defied Catholic Teaching, has he not, by voicing support of abortion. Can heretics receive Communion?

 

[MagdalenaRita]

This is the exact type of judging of one’s soul condemned by the Catholic Church. My own counsel I will keep on what the Church teaches. I will pass on adding the political ads that have proliferated here to the list of Church teaching documents.

I am not judging you or your soul. I can not do that. God alone does that but I am communicating to you that your comments have an ideology that is on a very thin line. Also I did not say you were unloving but that encouraging Mr. Biden in mortal sin is an unloving act. No judging of you.

I will vote accordingly anytime it is on the ballot.

Mr. Biden said at the last debate that it was.

 

[lwest]

Standing up for Church Teaching isn’t ‘judging’ a person’s soul. " But Canon law includes a provision excommunicating heretics : … The eternal moral law also requires that anyone who receive Holy Communion be in a state of grace. Therefore, anyone who is conscious of having committed an actual mortal sin, and who has not yet been to confession, generally cannot receive Holy Communion .Jan 14, 2011" Canon 915 , one of the canons in the 1983 Code of Canon Law of the Latin Church of the Catholic Church, forbids the administration of Holy Communion to those upon whom the penalty of excommunication or interdict has been imposed or declared or who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin:

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Just because it isn’t new doesn’t mean everyone knows about it nor people can’t discuss it.

Well, yes, obviously, it’s here and people are discussing it. The original thread did not point out in the title that the story was from last year, and gave the impression it was something that had just happened this week, like it’s a campaign issue. After I made my post, someone amended the title of the thread to make clear that this happened in 2019.

Joe Biden is currently not going around to public Masses outside of his home diocese. He’s barely been out of his house since the virus arrived. He may not even be attending Mass at his home parish because the dispensation is still in place, plus the press and demonstrators have been targeting his parish and he might not want to bring unwanted nuisance down on his fellow parishioners. There’s only one documented instance of him going over to his church recently and that was to visit his family’s graves, and the press showed up in droves, which was likely annoying.

Plenty of other ones don’t.

MagdalenaRita::

and that is very sad, dangerous to Mr. Biden and other people’s eternal salvation and something no Catholic should be pleased about.

Take it up with Biden’s bishop, who has stated in the past long before this election that he has a policy of not refusing Communion to politicians based on their political views. There are a lot of other bishops who agree with him and do the same. I’m also not Biden’s confessor and have no idea of the state of his soul, if and when he is even receiving Communion this year, as opposed to a year ago.

 

[27lw]

If 60-70% of Catholics have the same position (opinion) as Biden what exactly is going on here?

It’s a fallacious argument. Thank heaven I’m learning stuff in my son’s elearning Latin class! And thanks Indiana Republicans for making it possible for my kids to attend Catholic high school!

Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia

 

[Annie]

From the article:

“I practice my faith,” Biden told the network. “But I’ve never let my religious beliefs, which I accept based on church doctrine … impose that view on other people.”

This is something I have never understood. If one’s faith is not going to affect one’s actions, what is the point of bringing them in?

If I vote for people because they are (religion), then surely I should want their religion to affect how they vote.

If their religion will not affect how they vote, they should not promote their religiousity because it males no difference to them as a politician.

This is so contradictory that I feel I can’t even express it properly!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

If their religion will not affect how they vote, they should not promote their religiousity because it males no difference to them as a politician.

I agree with you and find it really annoying.

Also, politicians only started making a big point of this with the advent of abortion.

I have read that a Jesuit, Fr. Drinan (who used to be a congressman till the Pope made him quit), actually came up with this approach (being morally/ religiously opposed but not legally opposed/ “can’t force my views on people”). If true, I don’t think that was one of Fr. Drinan’s finer moments.

 

[pnewton]

Can heretics receive Communion?

No, but heresy is not defined as defying Church teaching. It is a much more narrow definition. One must defy, obstinately, dogmatic teaching.

Standing up for Church Teaching isn’t ‘judging’ a person’s soul.

Calling them unloving is. Saying that they are in danger of Hell is.

and the press showed up in droves

The presence of the press would be one factor, a big one, in considering whether communion would be a scandal. That might have figured in on the decision. I do not know. The man is not excommunicated.

He is denying one part of the Church’s teaching on abortion, not that it is evil, but that it should not be legal. I can believe that adultery should be legal. That does not make me an adulterer. The legalization of adultery is not an issue at this time, so the Church does not have a position on it. The Church has a very strong position on the legalization of abortion, one in which Biden dissents. It is a very serious matter, but it is not heresy.