"Biden’s communion denial highlights faith-politics conflict." Artcle shows polarized reactions to his denial of communion last year

[Tis_Bearself]

The thing about adultery being legal, or even gay marriage or poly marriage being legal, is that it doesn’t directly cause the death of a third party.

Saying you want something to be legal that the Church considers murder is pretty serious. It goes beyond just not forcing your views on others. It’s legalizing mass murder.

 

[pnewton]

That is why abortion is the pre-eminent issue. Stealing doesn’t kill people, but I assure you it is less harmful that adultery, which is far from a victimless crime.

I have heard one argument from a very conservative, traditional Catholic once that there might be some wisdom in not pushing for criminalizing abortion until first a clear majority of Americans agree. I do not agree. Heck, he did not really think so. But such discussion is simply not on the same level as speculating whether women can be priests, or whether abortion is murder even.

 

[Annie]

Saying that they are in danger of Hell is.

Saying someone is in danger of Hell seems more like an admonition than forbidden judging.

It’s not like saying someone is going to Hell, which would be wrong.

 

[Victoria33]

Bishops are speaking out

Catholics may not in anyway cooperate with this crime against humanity and Catholic voters and politicians are not exempt from the shared obligation to protect innocent human life from conception until natural death.

This is very important, this may be what I read but in a sense, it is saying that a Catholic is participating in the abortion itself.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Calling them unloving is. Saying that they are in danger of Hell is

No one was called unloving but rather an action was called unloving.

Certain sins do put our souls in grave danger of eternal loss. That is Church teaching.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

That is how I hear and understand it also.

 

[Anrakyr]

Saying someone is in danger of Hell seems more like an admonition than forbidden judging.

It’s not like saying someone is going to Hell, which would be wrong.

Sometimes I wonder if there ever was a Catholic State again would heresy become a criminal act? It’s at times like this I’m glad that that hypothetical is not possible. There are some crimes to which there is no punishment and it’s better that way.

 

[Annie]

This is tricky. To be punished for heresy one would 1st have to be Catholic and 2nd to be preaching against Catholic teaching and 3rd preaching against it as a Catholic.

Russia is kind of dealing with this now (not heresy pee se, and not Catholicism). Having recently emerged from a generations-long period of atheism, they don’t want a lot of people taking advantage of people’s lack of background in religious matters, while trying to allow people who are not Orthodox to worship freely.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Joe Biden is currently not going around to public Masses outside of his home diocese. He’s barely been out of his house since the virus arrived. He may not even be attending Mass at his home parish because the dispensation is still in place, plus the press and demonstrators have been targeting his parish and he might not want to bring unwanted nuisance down on his fellow parishioners. There’s only one documented instance of him going over to his church recently and that was to visit his family’s graves, and the press showed up in droves, which was likely annoying.

I’m not really sure how that applies. He is not going to Mass now because of the virus, but he has been going to Mass and supporting abortion before the virus and will probably continue to support abortion and go to Mass after the virus, until the Lord calls him to his own particular judgement.

This is why we must pray for him and not support him in his support of abortion. It supports the killing of innocent lives, supports harm to the mental state of women and supports or encourages him in grave danger to his soul, which then puts the soul of the one who votes for him in grave danger.

Thought this was interesting this morning from Catholic Answers:

https://wvw.catholic.com/voting-bulletin-insert

You can download it to your computer and read it but here is one line:

We may never vote for a
candidate because that candidate
supports legal abortion. This, too,
amounts to formal cooperation with,
and a shared responsibility for, all the
things that politician does to further
the grave evil of abortion

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I’m not really sure how that applies

It applies because the whole thread is about him receiving Communion.

There’s no documented instance of him receiving communion for months.

For all we know, he is refraining from receiving.

If he’s not receiving, he’s not sinning right now by receiving unworthily.

That’s all I have to say on this. Have a great day, it’s mute button time.

 

[Nepperhan]

It’s a fallacious argument. Thank heaven I’m learning stuff in my son’s elearning Latin class! And thanks Indiana Republicans for making it possible for my kids to attend Catholic high school!

I asked what the statistic meant. I did not argue that ‘40 million Frenchmen cannot be wrong’.

 

[Nepperhan]

This is something I have never understood. If one’s faith is not going to affect one’s actions, what is the point of bringing them in?

You don’t invade another person’s freedom from your religion. Lead by example.

(Trump is particularly lax on leading by example, by the way.)

 

[Annie]

You don’t invade another person’s freedom from your religion

My point still stands: why make a big deal out of one’s religion if one is not going to use it as a guide? What difference would it make to a voter as long as the politician touting his or her faith is not going to pay any attention to it?

(I would also like to point out that abortion is not a religious issue any more than are theft or fraud.)

 

[MagdalenaRita]

“I practice my faith,” Biden told the network. “But I’ve never let my religious beliefs, which I accept based on church doctrine … impose that view on other people.”

I see this also as someone saying, since my religious beliefs will not effect my decisions, my decisions will effect the people who hold to the religious beliefs of same Church

You don’t invade another person’s freedom from your religion. Lead by example.

Just saying, you don’t invade another person’s freedom OF religion either. Lead by example.

 

[Nepperhan]

My point still stands: why make a big deal out of one’s religion if one is not going to use it as a guide? What difference would it make to a voter as long as the politician touting his or her faith is not going to pay any attention to it?

1. Biden did not make a big deal out of Catholicism
2. What difference a politician’s religion makes to a voter is not the issue
3. It is un-American to impose one’s religion on another person of a different faith.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

For all we know, he is refraining from receiving.

If he’s not receiving, he’s not sinning right now by receiving unworthily.

Have a great day

I agree, if he is not receiving he is not sinning in that way. I am praying for him and my heart goes out to him that he turns back to Church teaching, so I am hoping that he is not receiving for the right reasons.

Thanks

 

[Annie]

What difference a politician’s religion makes to a voter is not the issue

Exactly. If the pol’s religion is so private as to not interfere with his job, then his religion should remain private.

Biden did not make a big deal out of Catholicism

Sure he does. Not as big a deal as Pelosi, but he mentions it frequently, at least does not discourage reporters from filming him at Mass, etc. And talks about how his faith affects his politics.

It is un-American to impose one’s religion on another person of a different faith.

Good, then let’s stop talking about how everyone’s taxes should be used to help the poor because … Catholic teaching.

Or realize that abortion is no more a religious issue than is theft or murder, as I mentioned before.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Or realize that abortion is no more a religious issue than is theft or murder, as I mentioned before.

I’m not sure how you meant here but abortion is murder.

 

[Annie]

There’s no documented instance of him receiving communion for months.

For all we know, he is refraining from receiving.

If he’s not receiving, he’s not sinning right now by receiving unworthily.

We do not know why he is not receiving and he has never shown any inclination to refrain from receiving because of his stance on abortion.

If he is only refraining right now because of the virus, then it is not really refraining, just lack of access.

We can see what he does when he has the option.

 

[Annie]

If 60-70% of Catholics have the same position (opinion) as Biden what exactly is going on here?

Part of the reason they hold that opinion is due to the “leading by example” that Biden (and others) do.