"Biden’s communion denial highlights faith-politics conflict." Artcle shows polarized reactions to his denial of communion last year

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pnewton said:
Should those who believe the death penalty still is acceptable also not receive?
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What would you think if Biden (or another D Catholic pol) voted in favor of CP?

Which is not even a true teaching of the Church the way prohibition of abortion is.
 
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Annie said:
What would you think if Biden (or another D Catholic pol) voted in favor of CP?
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Like voting for abortion, that would be terrible. But it still would not be the same thing as child sexual assault.
 
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pnewton said:
Should those who believe the death penalty still is acceptable also not receive? That is the problem with this sort of judging others. We always judge what we already agree with and rationalize that teaching we do not agree with.
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Probably not if you are speaking about the Roman Communion. I assume of course you are speaking about pro-death penalty politicians that promote it. The question on that matter though is whether the current doctrine on the death penalty is in harmony with the historic position of the Church and with scripture.
pnewton said:
Again, that would apply to procuring, performing, or having an abortion, and not applicable in this case. He is not, in a matter of provable fact, not excommunicated.
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I think it is safe to argue that legalizing murder, and providing government funds to allow a procedure that is performed to murder a child is guilty of exactly that.
 
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pnewton said:
I do not know his soul, or his confession schedule.
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True and true. But no one here is judging this man’s soul. They’re judging this man’s actions. Which time and time again he has made crystal clear with regards to abortion. Biden has also made it clear that the Little Sisters of the Poor are still squarely in his crosshairs should he gain office. (See below). Which would have the Little Sisters staring down the barrel of a government gun…again!!! I would hope that most here would find it despicable that a Catholic would go to such great lengths to go after those whose only mission is to help the less fortunate amongst us. But that’s just me.

https://www-catholicnewsagency-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.catholicnewsagency.com/amp/news/joe-biden-says-he-will-end-contraception-exemption-for-little-sisters-of-the-poor-18691?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQCrABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16021730057041&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.catholicnewsagency.com%2Fnews%2Fjoe-biden-says-he-will-end-contraception-exemption-for-little-sisters-of-the-poor-18691

https://www-catholicnewsagency-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.catholicnewsagency.com/amp/news/biden-says-catholic-nuns-inspire-him-to-run-plans-to-sue-little-sisters-of-the-poor-12427?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQCrABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16021730057041&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.catholicnewsagency.com%2Fnews%2Fbiden-says-catholic-nuns-inspire-him-to-run-plans-to-sue-little-sisters-of-the-poor-12427
 
Biden says nuns inspire him to run, plans to sue Little Sisters of the Poor

Aside from the unintended irony in this headline, it illustrates Biden’s confusion… it’s like he’s trying to prove he is a great Catholic to Catholics (25% or so of the US population) and that he is not Catholic at all, really, to non-Catholics.

:cry:
 
Mark121359 said:
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pnewton:
I do not know his soul, or his confession schedule.
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True and true. But no one here is judging this man’s soul.
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I said this in response to the question, “Should this man receive the Lord?” That is a different question. I have said from the beginning that I understand the argument that communion denial because of scandal ( the initial topic) was understandable. I may lack the enthusiasm of other here over this, but I do understand it.
 
Biden hasn’t obstinately defied dogmatic teaching? Sure seems like he has. And telling someone they are in danger of hell IS loving them, trying to save their soul, no? If you were driving down a road and I knew the bridge was out, you’d be in danger but wouldn’t know it. Wouldn’t telling you that the bridge is out be the loving thing to do? Isn’t it the same with things that affect our eternity? Instructing the ignorant is a spiritual work of mercy. Regarding your comparison to adultery, no one physically dies during an adulterous act. A better comparison would be murder. Should it be illegal to kill our 5 year old? Our teenager? Our spouses? Maybe if more bishops refused Communion to public heretics (like Biden) more people would stop and think, “Hmmm…maybe being Catholic doesn’t mean I can do whatever I want…” A lot of people seem to think that.
 
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Annie said:
Part of the reason they hold that opinion is due to the “leading by example” that Biden (and others) do.
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Its someone else’s fault? Somebody else made them do it? That would not fly even in junior high.
 
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First you say lead by example and then when I suggest that part of the reason 60 to 70% of Catholics are ok with legalized abortion some or all of the time is that they are paying attention to the leadership of Biden and similar prominent Catholics, you say, “Its someone else’s fault? Somebody else made them do it? That would not fly even in junior high.”

Hence: which is it? Lead or don’t lead or what is the point of leading…?
 
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The fact is, most (all) religions have teachings on what constitutes immoral (forbidden) acts.
Quite often these overlap with civil law.
In general the judeo-christian tradition has worked pretty well for the usa.
 
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Annie said:
Hence: which is it? Lead or don’t lead or what is the point of leading…?
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Well, its simple. Politicians can show how their religion affects their lives by showing a good example in their personal lives. The statistical numbers of Catholics who hold a particular view cannot be ascribed to the influence of other Catholics.
 
Nepperhan said:
Politicians can show how their religion affects their lives by showing a good example in their personal lives
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Yeah, cause we know so much about their personal lives… well, we know Pelosi has enormous refrigerators with $13/pint ice cream and Biden is way too touchy with female humans of all ages…
Nepperhan said:
The statistical numbers of Catholics who hold a particular view cannot be ascribed to the influence of other Catholics.
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Maybe no one has done a scientific analysis, but it’s not like people are unaffected by what is legal and what is not and arguments for the more currently-popular position, especially if they watched his position “evolve” over the years. A man says he is a serious Catholic whose faith is described as forming his politics, , yet runs for President pledging to make abortion the law of the land?

Naw, how would that affect anyone? And if it does, why should we blame Biden as if we were in jr. high?

But for sure we should be affected by his stance on social justices issues other than abortion, because there he is a “real” Catholic. And we should be all for his forcing his religious views on everyone when it comes to this, while ignoring that he refuses to save actual human lives in the area of abortion.
 
pnewton said:
Again, that would apply to procuring, performing, or having an abortion, and not applicable in this case. He is not, in a matter of provable fact, not excommunicated.
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Doesn’t creating legislation which funds abortion constitute procuring abortions at some level?
 
I can only speak to what the English translation says, and I only know grammar, not canon law, but based on that, I would say no. The phrase used is “a completed abortion,” not abortion law, and not “abortions.” What is being referred to is a specific abortion. So, while the idea of some form of remote cooperation would apply, as it would to those who voted for him, and the problem of scandal still exists, I do not see how canon law applies. I have not heard even the more Republican-leaning bishops suggest that it does. The Pope never has.
 
Raxus said:
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pnewton:
Again, not Jesus.
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You don’t have to be Jesus to be able to see when someone is being publicly, obstinately sinful.
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I was referring to the ability to judge the priest in this matter, whether he gave communion, or declined to give communion. I could also point out that I lack omniscience, meaning, I do not know if or when Biden went to confession, or what was said there. That is why I prefer to defer, and support, the decision of a specific priest in this matter.
 
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