Biden Enjoys Armed Protection While Fighting to Disarm Americans

[Zzyzx_Road]

The problem with inner city gun violence can be traced to lax gun control measures in some states where gun shows and straw buyers allow for multiple purchases of guns which end up on ghetto streets. Its like the Mexican drug trade where illegal drugs end up in America. Neither guns nor drugs are manufactured in the ghetto.

Further, there is much protest against gun violence and gun users in those communities being harmed by the violence, said protesters who could only be called leftists. These efforts include programs to reduce gun violence. People outside of those communities rarely know of those efforts.

Cranking up criticism of communities experiencing gun violence problems is blaming the victim.

Will gun legislation end illegal gun sales and violence? Probably not; no more than anti-abortion laws will end abortion.

The problem is that no matter how hard one works to outlaw guns, the simple fact of the matter is that outlaws will still have guns. That’s the point, they won’t obey the gun control laws no matter what. Since we not only can’t trust the police to protect us 24x7 but also the police do not even have a constitutional duty to protect us (there’s a Supreme Court decision for that one), it’s on us to figure out how to protect ourselves. Hence the rest of us have to be prepared to defend ourselves by either living apart from them or arming ourselves or both.

The perceived lax gun control is the laser focus you have when there exist other factors at play. Such as the lack of fathers, the lack of jobs, the lack of opportunities, the lack of role models and so on. As I mentioned above, it’s a complex problem that defies the simplicity with which you try to address it.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Now this we agree on. I find their actions unnecessary and counterproductive to their goals, and a poor reflection on those who act agree with their goals.
I feel the need to defend their rights to do so. I find it extraordinary that you can’t distinguish between defending the right and opposing the action.

Oh, no. You don’t get off that easily, just calling it “counterproductive”. In fact such protests are quite productive. Remember the crowd that was yelling for Jesus to be crucified? They got their way, despite Pilate’s reluctance. And this shameful crowd of gun-toting protesters will get their way too - for the same reason. The lawmakers will respond sooner than they would have with a more polite protest. So you can’t call it counterproductive. It is shameful and disgusting, and no amount of window-dressing about “protected rights” can ever change that.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

The problem is that no matter how hard one works to outlaw guns, the simple fact of the matter is that outlaws will still have guns.

Just not true. In places around the world with the most restrictive gun regulations there are fewer outlaws with guns too.

 

[WingedHussar]

Left-wing talking points with no relation to reality. Less than 1% of all criminals obtain their weapons from gun shows. Straw buying is already illegal.

https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf

 

[upant]

The problem with inner city gun violence can be traced to lax gun control measures in some states where gun shows and straw buyers allow for multiple purchases of guns which end up on ghetto streets. Its like the Mexican drug trade where illegal drugs end up in America. Neither guns nor drugs are manufactured in the ghetto.

lax gun laws?

yet you state illegal drugs aren’t manufactured in the ghetto.

you don’t think guns will come from the same source as the drugs if every state bans them?

the problem with gun violence is cultural and not due to lax gun laws

Cranking up criticism of communities experiencing gun violence problems is blaming the victim.

what? looking for the root cause is blaming the victim?

why isn’t the rest of the country a killing ground as found in some cities?

Will gun legislation end illegal gun sales and violence? Probably not; no more than anti-abortion laws will end abortion.

but let’s attack the lawful gun owners anyway,

 

[Nepperhan]

Such as the lack of fathers, the lack of jobs, the lack of opportunities, the lack of role models and so on. As I mentioned above, it’s a complex problem that defies the simplicity with which you try to address it.

But you seem willing to blame the gun violence situation on the victims. And leftists. And you state: "Then logically the biggest bang for the buck is to go where the problem is the worst. " The gun violence problem is worst in the inner cities. If guns are not legally sold there, then the gun sales problem is worst elsewhere. And we should be able to affect that elsewhere with legislation as to those lax gun sales states.

 

[WingedHussar]

All well and good except it is not a “gun sales problem”. Less than 2% of prisoners who used a gun during their offense acquired it from a retail source.

https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf

 

[Nepperhan]

All well and good except it is not a “gun sales problem”. Less than 2% of prisoners who used a gun during their offense acquired it from a retail source.

Well, unless they got the gun in a burglary (or growing out of a plant in the backyard) the gun sale certainly problematically led to a gun in the hands of a misdirected individual. If only 2% got guns in legal sales, there must be gun sales issues. People don’t use zip guns anymore.

 

[WingedHussar]

They could have stolen it, bought it off the black market, or had someone capable of passing a background check straw-purchase it for them. None of this is solvable by universal background checks or any other measure that serves as a backdoor method to gun registration.

 

[JonNC]

Oh, no. You don’t get off that easily, just calling it “counterproductive”.

To their goals, they are counterproductive.

In fact such protests are quite productive. Remember the crowd that was yelling for Jesus to be crucified?

Yes, I remember that crowd Call for violence. Was there a single call for violence these last few weeks?
We heard this rhetoric about the protesters in Richmond in response to the government’s attempt to confiscate arms.

They got their way, despite Pilate’s reluctance.

Yes. Their call for violence was answered.
The comparison of people practicing their rights to a mob calling for the death of an innocent man is, at best, repugnant.

 

[JonNC]

Zzyzx_Road:

The problem is that no matter how hard one works to outlaw guns, the simple fact of the matter is that outlaws will still have guns.

Just not true. In places around the world with the most restrictive gun regulations there are fewer outlaws with guns too.

Even worse, only government will have guns.

 

[Maximus1]

Right! The problem is proliferation and inability to account for ownership and possession. Now I recognise we place Constitutional limitations on " keeping track" of the massive number of guns, but this is part of the problem you identify.
Automobiles are kept track of better than guns. That is a property right and insurance generated system. Guns are a total free for all with respect to unaccounted for guns.Yet guns are designed to kill human beings as the design function.
It is an I’ll conceived system.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

To their goals, they are counterproductive.

I don’t know what goals you mean. If you mean intimidating lawmakers into opening up all isolation requirements, their shameful actions are quite effective. As I showed with the Romans crucifying Jesus, even the powerful Romans were intimidated by an angry mob into doing what they wanted. That is even more true in a representative government. The fact that it works does not make it any less disgusting.

Even worse, only government will have guns.

…which is just fine. There are a lot of powers that only governments have, otherwise they would cease to be governments.

 

[WingedHussar]

So why would Joe B. Criminal register his guns and comply with your system?

 

[JonNC]

I don’t know what goals you mean

Open up the country. Defend the constitutionally protected rights. I think they made clear their goals. No need to create a straw man.

As I showed with the Romans crucifying Jesus, even the powerful Romans were intimidated by an angry mob into doing what they wanted.

Do you oppose redress of grievances? Freedom of association? Most of the videos I’ve seen they are not acting like an angry mob calling for violence.

Automobiles are kept track of better than guns. That is a property right and insurance generated system.

And not an enumerated right.

Guns are a total free for all with respect to unaccounted for guns.

So are newspapers. Do you believe government should control them, too?

That is even more true in a representative government. The fact that it works does not make it any less disgusting.

You find representative government disgusting? Or redress of grievances?

…which is just fine.

Said every dictator in the last 120 years, resulting in the murders of tens of millions of civilians.

 

[Maximus1]

I oppose assembly in a pandemic definitely.
Comparing guns to newspapers makes no sense. The design purpose of a gun is homocide

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Most of the videos I’ve seen they are not acting like an angry mob calling for violence.

No, they are acting like an angry mob threatening violence.

You find representative government disgusting?

No, I find branding weapons at a protest to be disgusting.

 

[WingedHussar]

Since both are connected to Constitutional rights, the comparison is apt.

A gun may be used to kill, but the ideas expressed by freedom of speech are oftentimes the motive for that killing.

 

[JonNC]

I oppose assembly in a pandemic definitely

Propose a constitutional amendment to give the general government the power to suspend individual rights during a pandemic

Comparing guns to newspapers makes no sense.

The only difference is the number of the amendment that protects it. A protected individual rights is a protected individual right.

The design purpose of a gun is homocide

If that were the case, we would have hundreds of millions of homicides.

 

[JonNC]

No, they are acting like an angry mob threatening violence.

What words b or actions? Did they point the guns? If so, arrest them. Did they threaten to “ “punch a legislator”, to coin the phrase from the leftist fascistic Antifa? Do they communicate a threat? If so, arrest them.

No, I find branding weapons at a protest to be disgusting.

I do, too, under most circumstances. I felt it appropriate during the Virginia protest against the attempted anti-rights gun grab. It was about the guns themselves. This is not. I’ve seen little to indicate a mass arrest or incarceration of protesters in violation of their rights.
But I also defend their right to have them.